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      CommentAuthorArtimaeus
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2009
     

    Ok, so I was browsing a Twilight forum, just for kicks and giggles, and I found a thread where a mild mannered hater was asking the twi fans what they saw in Bella and Edward’s story. Most of the answers were typical fair. “I’m in love with love stories!” “It’s about forbidden love!” You get the idea.

    Then somebody said this.

    Magical Realism. This is why Harry Potter does so well across so many different groups of people. The involvement of the super natural into the ordinary is done in such a way that pushes the romantic relationships rather than distract/detract from them. I don’t think SM did this by exercising some sort of gift. She just writes about the relationships between the characters regardless of their literary context. With this, I think she lucked out.

    And that got me thinking. Never mind the fact that neither HP nor Tw are technically magical realism (that’s another genre entirely). For all of their differences, Twilight and Harry Potter have the same basic story-line. Both stories are set, obstinately, in the real world, and follow an average teenager. This teenagers discover a hidden magical world in which they must learn to live. In Harry’s case, it’s a world of wizards, wonders, and peril, and in Bella’s, it’s a world with a perfect vampire boyfriend. Each appeals to its own demographic.

    But it leads to the question: why is it that the only two YA fantasy books to yet break into mainstream culture follow the same formula? A muggle discovers a new world. Does this mean that the average teenager is unwilling to pick up anything that isn’t tied to the real world? Are most teenagers are only able to relate to contemporary teenage characters? If so, this seems to have unfortunate implications for many SciFi and Fantasy stories. Recently, for example, one of my friends said that she could never watch Firefly, though she’d tried several times. When I asked why, her answers was, essentially, “because it’s set in space”.

    Do you think that young adult fantasy is more commercial if the story is set in the real world? And what, if anything, can we do as writers to counter this.

  1.  

    I think it ties into the “teens as escapist” stereotype. Since teens are all about “finding themselves” and “forging a new identity”, Harry Potter and Twilight fit that fantasy – if I look hard enough, I might get fantastic powers, fall in love, and eventually become an adult. But I think the declining reading demographic means that more readers only want to read about stuff they already know about. I think we’re just getting… well, stupider, and so teens, in their self-centered teen way, want everything, even their books, to be about them and stuff they know. It’s boring to learn an entire culture; it’s cool to have superpowers in your hometown. Even Tamora Pierce models her countries after real ones (The Yamani Islands are based on Japan, for example), because it gives us a reference point to work off of. You don’t have reference points in Lord of the Rings – even the language is made up for you.

    To tap into it, we’d have to first market how the characters were “like any other teenage guy before [terrible traumatic event] happened.” Then, we’d have to have all our characters speak in English, using made-up slang. And the plot would have to involve all the staples – action, romance, more fighting, more kissing, explosion, climatic explodey battle of kissing, and then end credits. In short, you need a book that can be turned into a movie.

    I feel really cynical now.

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2009
     

    ...huh. That’s a very interesting thought. I read an article on science fiction that was sort of related- it said that every story, even if it was about aliens, has to have a human character for the reader to connect with, or otherwise it’s just too difficult for them to relate. Perhaps this applies to the setting as well, like we’re more comfortable with the fantastic if it’s set in our world- not because “it could be real”, but because we know it can’t be.

    Or maybe most people just can’t wrap their heads around the idea of a “parallel” world. If you think about it, what are some of the best-written fantasies of all time? Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia are two that immediately come to mind for me, and both are sort of set in the Real World- LotR is ostensibly a pre-history of England, and CoN details the adventures of children from Earth. Maybe we need something familiar to relate to the story.

  2.  

    Or something concrete enough that you can relate to.

    Even if your story’s about a teenager in a different world with a different culture, the teenager acts as the anchor that a reader can get their head around, because being a human teenager is a similar thing in many cases, no matter where you are.

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      CommentAuthorArtimaeus
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2009
     

    I agree, but I don’t think it’s just that Pierce draws from Japanese culture/geography or the shire resembles rural England. That’s going to be the case as long as stories are written by humans. I’m just upset the only characters the majority of young readers seem to connect to are teenagers from modern earth. That’s not to say that none of these stories can be imaginative; Narnia and HP clearly show otherwise. But that doesn’t change the fact that an awful lot of good stories are rejected out of hand just because of the don’t fit that particular formula.[/bitter rant]

  3.  

    HP clearly show otherwise.

    Isn’t Harry Potter a teenager from Modern Earth?

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      CommentAuthorArtimaeus
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2009
     

    Yes, but JKR clearly isn’t lacking in imagination.

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      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2009
     

    I was once told that a story of mine was crap because there were no humans in it. Considering that this was on FictionPress and that everyone else I showed the story to thought it was very interesting, if a bit strange, my reaction was “... What? o_O”

    Personally, the further removed from this reality a story is (within reason; incoherent and inconsistent prose is wholly unacceptable), the more I enjoy it. I want my fantasy to be fantastic, my legends to be legendary, my science fiction to be unabashedly speculative. If I wanted to read about another whiny teen wangsting 24/7 and being inane in general, I’d pick up a YA general novel (*barf*). If I wanted to read about a particular country, people, language, event, or mythos, I’d look up the relevant historical, cultural, linguistic, geographic, or mythological references (which I do quite often :3). Forcing every unique aspect of any genre, much less fantasy and science fiction, to conform to preconceived notions of how things “are” or “should be” is just narrow-minded and… ugh.

    Alas, we seem to be a dying breed, we of the discerning tastes and endless imaginations. In this supposed age of unparalleled “tolerance,” “education,” and “acceptance,” it is shocking the level of ignorance, bigotry, and close-mindedness the majority of the population display.

    So, yeah. Formulaic = bestseller.

    On another note, I seem more than slightly inclined to purple when cynical. >.>

  4.  

    Hey, Kyrollac, I’d be interested if you could recommend some really original fantasy for me. Thanks.

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      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2009 edited
     

    That’s a bit difficult seeing as how I haven’t read any in a long time. ^^; My idea of original is probably different from your idea of original (plus most of the more speculative/strange stuff I’ve read are short stories in various magazines/anthologies/websites that I don’t remember), so I’ll just be recommending mostly books I really enjoyed and consider good.

    Off the top of my head, Redwall and it series by Brian Jaques is very good, though you may find the prose a bit dry (personally, I didn’t, though others have). Howl’s Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones is excellent; much better than Miyazaki’s movie adaptation. Its sequel, Castle in the Air was not as enjoyable for me, but was still a decent read. The Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C. Wrede is also a worthwhile read; it’s one of the very few that I have ever bothered rereading more than once. Rowan of Rin and the rest of the books in the series by Emily Rodda are decent. Keturah And Lord Death by Martine Leavitt is another book I greatly enjoyed, not so much for the fantastic elements, but for the story and characters. Garth Nix is one of my favorite authors, though I recommend Sabriel most of all.

    On the end of magical realism, Emmy and the Incredible Shrinking Rat by Lynne Jonell is a personal favorite. There’s also the classic “A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings” by Gabriel García Márquez which really manages to convey a sense of matter-of-fact surrealism even in the translation. Orson Scott Card’s Seventh Son is a very interesting take on an alternate Colonial American frontier where magic is real and history has taken a more than slightly different course.

    And tilting more towards sci-fi, The Gunslinger by Stephen King was utterly captivating, though the other books in the series not so much.

    I’m forgetting a lot of great authors and books, but that’s all I can remember at the moment. >.<

    And I’m posting this up here so that everyone else can see so I don’t have to type up a recommendations list all over again. XP

  5.  

    Mmm…I’ve read the first few books of Redwall (if a series has more than three or four books, in most cases I’ll never finish it) and enjoyed them. I’ve also read Keturah and Lord Death though I didn’t find it all that extraordinary. I love the Abhorsen books, and they’re among my favorite fantasy books. Have you read Garth Nix’s short story anthology Across the Wall? It’s great. I think I tried Howl’s Moving Castle but I don’t recall ever finishing it.

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2009
     

    Ohhh, The Enchanted Forest Chronicles are amazing. I read the first one in fourth grade, then completely forgot the title, the cover art, the author, and the names of every single character for about four years. But I always remembered that the story was awesome!

    Then one day, I was wandering through the local library and saw this book… and instantly remembered everything about it from like four years earlier. So I promptly checked out all four books and read them several hundred times in the next three weeks. :D

  6.  

    I read a preview for it on GoogleBooks and wanted to continue it, but I can never find the first book. :(

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      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2009
     

    Mmm…I’ve read the first few books of Redwall (if a series has more than three or four books, in most cases I’ll never finish it) and enjoyed them.

    Well, as each of the books are self-contained, there’s no real reason to read the entire series. I just did for the sake of completeness, plus I liked them. XD

    I’ve also read Keturah and Lord Death though I didn’t find it all that extraordinary.

    To each their own, I suppose. It holds a special place on my shelf as one of the few “I knew it was a romance but still enjoyed it” stories.

    Have you read Garth Nix’s short story anthology Across the Wall? It’s great.

    Yes, and though it was good, I wouldn’t call it great. I honestly can’t remember any of the stories in it, and I’ve read the anthology thrice. ._.

    I read a preview for it on GoogleBooks and wanted to continue it, but I can never find the first book. :(

    I know Borders stocks it. That’s where I got my copy. :3

    Another author I just remembered is Gerald Morris. He has fun with Arthurian legends. My favorite book is The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf. X3 It’s part of a series, but again, each book is self-contained, though reading the others adds a whole other layer of enjoyment. The first book is A Squire’s Tale if I recall correctly.

  7.  

    You reminded me about Andre Norton’s Here Abide Monsters. She mixes Arthurian legends into her story(s).

  8.  

    There’s also The Edge Chronicles. They can get a little formulaic (especially the first book), but I like the series overall.

  9.  

    @ Kyrollac- I think I saw The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf somewhere, and it looked interesting, but I didn’t pick it up because it looked like a series, and I didn’t know what the first book was. I hate jumping into a series without reading it in order.

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    Redwall is also marvelous. And technically, the original heavily implies it’s set somewhere in our world, although the later ones pretty much ran roughshod over that.

    •  
      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    @SWQ – You don’t have to read them in order. That’s the beauty of a series of self-contained books. A Squire’s Tale was the first one written, but chronologically within the books, it isn’t the first, so you can really just hop right in at any book. :D

  10.  

    Really?

    I love that. The author was Gerald Morris? Ok, after I finish the book I’m currently reading, I’ll look out for him.