ImpishIdea: Brisingr Review

View the spoiler free version

Brisingr, or, The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular is the third book in the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini. I would like to note that at his point, he is 25, and not 15, so he will be allowed no exceptions from the Age Card. Nor will he receive any exceptions from the War Veterans Card, since he is not a war veteran. It is interesting to note that this book took three years to publish. So you might expect that, given this amount of time, the book is pretty good.

Your expectations are always wrong, when it comes to the Inheritance Cycle, unless you were expecting an obvious plot twist. Spoilers ahoy: the only plot twist in the book is that Brom is Eragon’s father. Just about every fan who has ever posted on the Inheritance Forums predicted this, showing just how inventive the series is. But more than that the plot points are predictable, the book suffers from a far larger problem. The plot points are few and far-between. Wikipedia’s plot summary) deems a mere 5 events worthy of summary. Approximately 1 for every 155 pages of this colossal beast. Further, one of them involves the dwarves, who just aren’t very interesting.

Now, the book doesn’t contain a lot of plot, but it sure has a lot of scenes. The problem is, you get the feeling this book was just a collection of scenes cobbled together. For example, Eragon randomly meets a hermit magician in an abandoned keep… and then, nothing. After helping the hermit prepare a meal, and listening to a convoluted rant, Eragon runs away. It leaves the reader wondering what the point was. This is not the only instance of this. There are enough to fill 784 pages. Each page leads you to wonder whether the story will go anywhere.

I only comment on the need of plot, because Paolini’s characters still struggle to be sympathetic. In books by masters, such as Anna Karenina we can tolerate hundreds of pages of characters sitting around and talking. But since the Inheritance Cycle has always been about its Bildungsroman epic fantasy quest, when the book stops supplying this, it stops supplying at all. Perhaps the reason Eragon was the most tolerable book of the three is that it stuck to the formulaic but comfortable Star Wars plot. Eldest and Brisingr lack the eventfulness, and so they fall flat.

Actually, there aren’t even enough random events to fill 784 pages. Paolini’s signature purple prose and poor descriptors fill close to a third of the pages. This was an area I had really expected Paolini to make great headway in. Writing style is something you undoubtedly can improve with time, and Paolini has had ten years to do it. He also has a professional editor to help him. But the writing really hasn’t improved, and the book is still filled with guffaw inducing lines. Paragraph long descriptions of common place things in the environment still fail to breathe life into Paolini’s lifeless Middle Earth. The great novelist Chekhov once said, “In the particular is contained the universal.” Paolini’s descriptions are void of those little details of description that stick with us. Instead he uses his favored vague adjectives and cliches to describe things, sometimes forcing as many as five adjectives into a single terrified sentence, begging for mercy.

In addition, the dialogue is still contrived. Characters make use of such ridiculous anachronisms as “partook” and “forsooth.” Even as a realistic old English dialect, the dialogue falls short, as anyone who has read Shakespeare can probably tell you. This is ignoring the simple fact that the conversations are unrealistic to begin with. In particular, one Urgal is compelled to blurt out his entire life story, as the reader dozes.

Perhaps the reader would doze less if the most potentially exciting scene in the entire series hadn’t happened off screen. As we can all recall, the “epic showdown” between Eragon and Murtagh in the end of Eldest had been a huge anticlimax. Well, guess what? The fight between Murtagh and Oromis happens off screen. That’s right. What could have been the coolest scene in the series doesn’t happen at all, as far as we are concerned. All we get is a report that Oromis and Glaedr are dead. Truly a masterful story teller. Or perhaps, writing another action scene was too much work. Brisingr is crowned by another triumphant anti-climax.

If you were one of the people who gave Paolini the benefit of doubt, and hoped he would improve, I’ll say this: he did improve, but not by much. And considering how bad the initial quality is, a slight improvement still places you in the “Cliche Fantasy Paperback” category. It’s disappointing that after such a long wait, the book just doesn’t deliver.

For a chapter by chapter break down of the failures, check here.

Tagged as: Characters, Christopher Paolini, Inheritance Cycle, Magic, Plot

Comment

Lazarus on 21 September 2008, 19:01 said:

I’m wondering if Yoda Glaedr are actually dead. Galbatorix might’ve gotten a hold of them.
SlyShy on 21 September 2008, 19:02 said:

They have to be dead, because Oromis gave Eragon his “heart of hearts” to make him more powerful. Never mind how hypocritical this is.
Kaye on 21 September 2008, 19:26 said:

Thanks so much for writing this!! I’m the farthest thing from a fan of the Inheritance Trilogy, and probably couldn’t myself have stomached reading Brisingr, but I still had that inexplicable desire to know what crap he’d spew this time. Great review.
Lazarus on 21 September 2008, 20:40 said:

Yeah, it is pretty hypocritical. But according to Paolini’s Book of Morals, it’s alright if GOOD people use BAD methods to achieve victory for the GREATER GOOD.
SlyShy on 21 September 2008, 20:43 said:

Yeah, unless it is Murtagh killing a slave trader for the greater good. In which case he is still an evil bastard child of Morzan.
Christopher Paolini on 21 September 2008, 21:57 said:

Everybody, chill out — I resurrect every character in the last book for the final fight against the reborn Emperor Palpatine that takes place upon his Eclipse-class Star Destroyer.
Brendan Kutler on 21 September 2008, 22:22 said:

Thanks for bearing the obscene amounts of vague analogies and adjectives so I didn’t have to, as well as giving me plenty of arguing points for one of my friends, who is a devout Paolinite.

Cliches: 0. Real Writing: 1.
Spanman on 22 September 2008, 00:18 said:

I didn’t mind Eragon so much. Eldest was only a bit worse.

But.. jeez. This sounds terrible.
Professor X on 23 September 2008, 12:17 said:

I probably should not have read this because I’m only 60% finished with the book, but I also had guessed the “plot twists” that you’ve noted here. I think you gave a good and fair review. I also had hoped that Paolini’s writing would improve more than it has. It has been disappointing so far.
a plastic fan on 23 September 2008, 12:56 said:

You have the right to your own opinions. And I respect that.

However, I really enjoyed the book. The dwarves can become very boring, and I admit that I was not all too excited to watch their politics, but it could have been much worse.

As far the fight scenes, are you kidding? I mean, they weren’t bad. We weren’t expecting a huge fight scene in the last battle for two main reasons:
1. Murtagh was not fighting against the Varden, thus aside from the battle in the city of Feinster, what else could you expect but a win? Of course I really enjoyed the creation of the Shade. There could have been more action in that final fight, but due to the fact that it was a battle of wits more than anything else, I think it turned out very well.
2. We only saw a few clips of the battle at Gil’ead, which I very much enjoyed. You need to remember that exposing Galbatorix’s voice gives the appeal that Galbatorix really feared Oromis and Glaedr—something we haven’t really seen before from the Tyrant. This is the case due to his involvement in the fight.

And, I will admit many fans (including myself) were expecting the Brom plot twist. But, I was okay with how it was done, being that it was a happy moment for the series and character of Eragon—and Eragon not being the smartest person in the world, of course he wouldn’t figure it out on his own until told.

To say that this book was more of a collection of scenes rather than a complete, coherent book is not very intelligent. Just because only a couple of months passed by in this book does not mean that it wasn’t coherent and complete. I think that Paolini really improved with Brisingr. Do I think that there are still many areas he needs to work on? Yes, I do. But, considering how far he has come with his descriptions and dialogue and not always needing to have a huge fight scene, well I think it turned out very well. And, I don’t know of many books that come out with a few rather large fights by the time it has ended—and I think that was also a strength of Brisingr.

Also, seeing as this is the 2nd last book of the series, Paolini had to tie up a few more things, such as some prophecies and progression of the ‘rebel forces’ for lack of a better term. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, even as seeing its flaws, because I can tell that Paolini and his characters are growing and I find it interesting to see where he takes things.
THe burning jew on 23 September 2008, 13:03 said:

I just got done with brisingr. It was an ok book, but Christopher Paolini gave us nothing we didn’t already know. He just couldn’t put all the cool parts of the story in because he promised us so much. And talk about joyous, all he finds under the Menoa tree is a fornicating piece of metel. Thats bullcoprophagous man, and Oromis fornicating hardcore dude dies in like 4 pages man he is fornicating out of hand powerful and yet he doesnt even fornicating put up a good fight. Wow thank you Chris for killing one of the coolest characters in your story, and then not even make him put up a good fihgt. fornicate you man. And you fornicating ass this was suposed to be a triology man and you fornicating fornicated that up. We all know it was for money, but you know good for you. You have found away to make 10 year olds pay 40 dollars for a book that says nothing but shit.
SlyShy on 23 September 2008, 13:08 said:

Here is that inproved dialogue and description you spoke of.

“Half of the young men gave their frames a vigorous shake when they stepped forward with their right foot, producing a dolorous cacophony of notes, while the other half shook their frames when they advanced upon the left foot, causing iron tongues to crash against iron throats and emit a mournful clamor that echoed over the hills.” (p. 2)

““Gar!” said Roran in an undertone. “You failed to mention that those errant flesh-mongers, those gore-bellied, boggle-minded idiot worshippers were cannibals.”
“Not quite. They do not partake of the meat.”

“Comforted, Eragon gzed into the void between the stars and slowed his breathing as he drifted into the trance that had replaced sleep for him. He remained conscious of his surroundings, but against the backdrop of the white constellations, the figures of his waking dream strode forth and performed confused and shadowy plays, as was their wont.” (p. 35)

“He was laying on his back, legs folded at the knees, stretching his thighs after running further and with more weight than he ever had before—when the loud, liquid, rumble erupted from his innards.” (p. 72)

Still, thank you for being an incredibly well spoken fan. I never say I didn’t enjoy the books. After all, I read through the entire thing in six hours. But what I am saying is that it needs to be improved. And this site is about pointing out those improvements that could be made, so other young authors can write better themselves.

I agree, the scene with Galbatorix was great. But besides that scene, the book was disappointing.

To summarize: Paolini has improved, that is a given. I still read the book, and enjoyed it. The book still isn’t well written.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. :)
Justin on 23 September 2008, 19:09 said:

So I take it Eragon and Arya didn’t end up together in Brisingr?? If not is there any hope for it happening in Book IV???
Tausha on 24 September 2008, 22:50 said:

I’ve only read through a couple chapters in, but I find the dialogue to be rough. The book seems to lack fluid transitions. But who knows? Maybe it’s just off to a bumpy start.
SlyShy on 24 September 2008, 22:57 said:

Tausha, it doesn’t really get much better.

Justin, if his epic romance is going to be with some woman besides Arya, than Paolini has certainly taken his time to introduce her. At least, I hope we can reason out Angela…. for reasons I hope I don’t have to explicate.
pug on 25 September 2008, 10:16 said:

A great review – I’ve just finished the book and am very disappointed.
I noticed on his website that he notes Raymond Feist as an influence – then I realised that the whole Inheritance Cycle is just a really poor imitation of The Riftwar Saga.
Although, I’ll still probably buy the 4th book just to find out how it ends.
Professor X on 25 September 2008, 15:34 said:

Alright. I just finished reading this book, and was left feeling somewhat empty and unsatisfied. The story was decent, but there is more fluff in here than I would like. I’ll give the author a pass on some apparently “random” material like the scene with Tenga (since he still has one more book to go). I also don’t particularly mind the way he “described” the fight between Murtagh/Thorn/Galbatorix and Oromis/Glaedr. There was just a bit too much awkward dialogue, and some parts really dragged (those dwarves ARE boring). Obviously, I read the entire series so far, so there is plenty of appeal to the stories, but, the thing that really bothers me about this “cycle” is that the main protagonist (Eragon) is really NOT an inspiring character. He comes off as a whiny, immature, hard-headed, impulsive brat, and while that was good in the first book, I keep waiting and waiting for the guy to grow up, or, at least, show some progress in maturity. I understand that’s how most teenagers behave, but I’d expect more from someone who is supposed to be so important. I found myself saying out loud, “How can he be such an idiot?” over and over as I read. It’s quite frustrating, but that also means I care about the character, I guess…

In regards to Justin’s question, hey, maybe Eragon ends up with Nasuada (she might qualify as “royalty”). That would be an unexpected twist. Or Trianna (okay, maybe not).
SlyShy on 25 September 2008, 15:59 said:

Well, it would be another example of how badly written Eragon’s character is if he ended up with Nasuada. So far he has displayed zero interest in her, other than as Lord of the Varden.
mikey on 25 September 2008, 19:32 said:

Thankyou for this review.
Whilst I enjoyed Eragon, Eldest seemed like drivel, and I have to agree with the comment’s about Eragon being an immature character.
I envisage that it would be hard as a young person to write in a maturity that one doesn’t have.
Obviously Eddings’ Garion, Feist’s Pug, Jordan’s Rand al’Thor, et al started out life as these spineless, impetuous characters, who were overwhelemed by their sudden thrusting into greatness, but they did grow up. Maybe that is a sign of having been writen by more mature writers.

I’ll pick this up next week, and have a read.
Very disappointing to find out there will be a fourth novel.
I wonder whether it will be out before he turns 40 (or the next Metallica album, whichever comes first)
Kiki on 25 September 2008, 21:03 said:

I agree with this review!
The book was tiresome and long, the chapters with the dwarfs went on and on and I didn’t care for the Roan saga either.
I expected much more from this book, and I was caught off guard that it was not the last! (I didn’t keep up with the press conferences)
He was trying to make something more than it was, and turned it into a long game of risk. I will read the last, if only to finish it and add it to the shelf over ever growing novels.
SlyShy on 25 September 2008, 22:14 said:

Mikey,

Well… Amelia Atwater-Rhodes’ books are “mature” are although they are also really bad, in my opinion. So I don’t know. I really think your writing reflects your life experience, so perhaps being sheltered ones’ entire life isn’t the best path when trying to be a novelist…

Kiki,

Thanks. :) Also, I found your Risk analogy amusing.
Puppy on 26 September 2008, 02:15 said:

I just wish that they’d publish a double-spaced version for us with the red pens. I really want to get the full set, mark them up, and ship them back to Paolini. Of course, it would cost me about two hundred bucks to buy and ship. Rolls eyes All that ink would probably double the weight.

It might be worth it if I could see his face when he opened them though…
Bear on 26 September 2008, 10:14 said:

Have been an avid fantasy fan for 25 years, read the Lord of the Rings at 8. I bought Brisingr on release day and have tried to start it three times, and cannot get the impetus going beyond page 6, it just appears he is trying to hard. After visiting this site, wonder if I ever will
dane arries on 26 September 2008, 11:41 said:

This is one of the worst reviews i have ever read, and you call yourself a critic, why dont you reread the book, because you were obviously drunk the first time you read it.
I loved this book, it was by far the best in the series, and the writer has definitely improved, it is a long winded book, but it was writen that way, and if you dont like that genre then dont read it.
I cant wait for the next book
Joe on 26 September 2008, 13:13 said:

I thought you said this was spoiler free???? Thanks for letting find out Brom was his father on your site. That’s very disappointing. I’ll still get the book to read it. Next time, please don’t be so careless with the title of your review.
SlyShy on 26 September 2008, 13:19 said:

Sorry if that caused you any distress, Joe. As you can see, the link at the top of the page brings you to the spoiler free page.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Dane Arries. I don’t call myself a critic. Turns out, none of the professional critics have published a review. They are probably still looking for something nice to say.

If you would like to offer examples and evidence to explain why this was your favorite book, I would be happy to hear it. I don’t often hear analysis from fans.
JustCheerfulOne on 26 September 2008, 14:05 said:

Hi, I thought your review was spot on and from what I am seeing all over the rest of the internet bookstore reviews the 5-star reviews came from people who were just excited to read the book but hadn’t read it yet. It seems like people either loved it didn’t

Can I say I got the audiobook,fell asleep for several hours and didn’t feel a tiny pang of regret that I didn’t backtrack…and even worse, it appears I really didn’t miss much, except, as Kiki mentioned, I missed that player 1 now owns more of castles on the risk board than player 2.

And sorry Joe…if you watched the Return of the Jedi, it is a spoiler for Book 4…except it was much more concise.

CP, if you read this, take a page from good soap writers—anticipate what we’re going to think and stay two steps ahead…you could stretch this gig out another 8 or nine books. Eragon’s kids…Eragonette and Rosebud the Dragon, for example.
RandomX2 on 27 September 2008, 17:40 said:

I definitely have to disagree with the review given. You stated a lot of things as fact, but without much support. For example: “…Bildungsroman epic fantasy quest, when the book stops supplying this, it stops supplying at all.” Elucidate on said facts a little more; it gives the review a bit more power. I, for one, counterargue that Eragon continued to mature psychologically quite a bit in his philosophy of killing. Especially in that bit where the swordsman just ran away from him, begging for mercy, and Eragon killed him anyways. Eragon’s thoughts (and Arya’s responses) in the following section were pretty interesting to read, weren’t they? Not to mention how to punish Sloan. And then again in the siege of Feinster. But if you haven’t read the book yet, check it out.

In any case, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I remember reading Eldest through in one day, loving it, and when I heard all the negative reviews on it and read it again I wondered, “What the hell is this?” I loved reading it, much more than I have any other series I can remember (including LOTR, maybe not Deathly Hallows…) because of the wealth of description, and yet when I looked for (and found) all of those negatives it really soured the experience for me.

Point being: just… shut up (as offensive as that sounds… fine: shush! :P). The novels are much better when you don’t nitpick every single fault you can find, because if you look for them you WILL find them, regardless of whether they are valid or not. Brisingr is, IMO, the best in the series so far. Much better than Eldest (I admit there was a little TOO much description and not enough action) and better than Eragon (which you can tell was written while he was 15). It seems a balance of the two.

As for the scenes being “cobbled together”… I’m really not sure what you’re talking about (with the exception of the one scene with Tenga… what was up with that? AND the spirits, which was by far the most random event to happen in the story for me). I don’t remember feeling anything of the sort, or maybe I just wasn’t paying attention. They scenes seemed to flow reasonably well.

Don’t look for stupid things with the eye of a critique. Read the book, enjoy it, end of story. And if you’re so ingrained with a sense of pointing out flaws in books (I confess I have made a habit of it too, on occasion), then the Inheritance cycle isn’t for you. Trust me.

BTW, there was SO much epic plot. Did you not note (SPOILER ALERT… not that anyone cares if they’re so far into reading reviews) the painless soldier fights, Roran’s raids and battles (especially in the village; he killed almost 200 people! That’s nuts!), Murtagh vs. Eragon, siege on Feinster + Shade, invasion of Helgrind and all of that? I mean, come on! That was just awesome.

—RandomX2

P.S.: I would add more to this review and explain WHY I disagree with the above review so strongly and more in-depth, but I’ve learned it’s better to wait for the other person’s response. I don’t want to have misconstrued your review, and so give a bad reply. Just don’t think I’m done ranting yet. :P

(EPIC SPOILER ALERT!)
P.P.S.: OROMIS DIED! WHYYYYY! CURSE YOU, PAOLINI! Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

P.P.P.S.: REPLY SOON. I feel like discussing Brinsingr even more now. :D

P.P.P.P.S.: I like post-scripts (well, that and brackets).
MegaB on 27 September 2008, 18:53 said:

I think, SlyShy, that you must take into account the fact that this was originally intended to be THE final book. Now, when I look at Brisingr from that perspective I can kind of grasp the fact that Paolini hadn’t intended it to be a dedicated book on its own. The fact that there was a heap load of charachter development, little action, LOTS of politics and the whole situation regarding Eragon’s choices, seems to hint that this was, in fact, merely a build up to the main story development that would have been the end of the trilogy (which is now the 4th book of course). I’m not so sure if you agree, but the synopsis is very clear that Brisingr was meant to address the consequences of all the oaths and promises that had been sworn, and for that, it has done very well to portray Eragons perspective and the mental turmoil that he was forced through due to his many alliances with all the different races.

To that effect, however, I feel that I must agree with you in some instances about seemingly pointless scenes. Looking back on it now, although they still feel pointless, it accompanies a nice change and I can definitely see it as the ‘calm before the storm’ that it was meant to be. Also, something to note, we do not know half of Paolini’s intentions. I for one feel that these loose ends will all be cleared up in the final book. Brisingr laid bare quite a few things that muddled and surprised me. The entire situation of Selena, Eragon’s mother, is highly confusing; was she truly a good person, or was she in fact a pawn of Morzan’s, struggling to break the shackles of her fate?
I’m sure you can appreciate the fact the Paolini dug himself quite a few holes in Eldest and now he’s trying his level best to climb out of them in a realistic manner.
SlyShy on 27 September 2008, 19:29 said:

Hey MegaB, thanks for taking the time to write.

When you put it that way, I guess I agree with you. Its awkward position as the “extra” book in the cycle necessitates a lot of what Paolini has done.

But, I feel like if Paolini’s style weren’t so verbose, and he really cut his story down and narrowed in on the pieces that make it an engaging story, he wouldn’t need four books. He could have said all he said in way fewer pages, and then this awkward sort of book wouldn’t need to exist.

Still, I think you’ve made a good point.
SlyShy on 27 September 2008, 19:38 said:

Dear RandomX2,

Congratulations, you are probably the best spoken fan to stumble into this site. :)

Now, understand me when I say this. I take no issue with people enjoying the book, buying the book, saying they like the book, etc. I bought the book, and I enjoyed reading. What I don’t abide by is people saying “Inheritance Cycle is so well written!” or “Inheritance Cycle has literary value!”. True, everything is a matter of taste, but the fact remains there are simply a wealth of better writers out there, and to call the Inheritance Cycle good is demeaning to the likes of Anton Chekhov and other literary geniuses.

I’m happy you enjoyed the books. But I also hope you expand your reading horizons and read some of the classics. Most people don’t like the classics, because they are assigned by school, and thus automatically boring. But try reading some classics outside of a school assignment. I think you’ll find you enjoy them, and enjoy how well written they are. Now, do note, some classics are more tractable than others. I don’t recommend you attempt to read Anna Karenina right away. The Three Musketeers however, is a fun read.

There are also many contemporary authors that do a great job of writing good stories. If you are a fan of the fantasy genre, (and you probably are, since you’ve read Inheritance) you should read George RR Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series.
MegaB on 28 September 2008, 06:50 said:

Ahh, indeed, I agree with you on that point, he could have cut down on the size very easily using that strategy. I think that he let himself off the train with this one, simply putting everything he thought of down onto paper, and that seems to be the biggest mistake as an author he has made!
However, I think he can be forgiven for that mistake, given the situation he was in and the fact that in the preface he clearly states:

“At Knopf: my editor, Michelle Frey, who did an awesome job of helping me to clean up and tighten the manuscript (the first draft was much longer)”

Now that, to me, raises some serious questions as to HOW LONG the original draft was!!! Anyway, I am glad that you agree with me on that point, it makes a far more enjoyable read when you try to ignore the bad points of a book and an author of Paolini’s calibre…..whatever anyone might say, his grammar is exceptional in this regard, his prose engaging and most of all his base plot is intriguing.
GOD on 28 September 2008, 15:19 said:

there was only one section of the book that mattered to me and that was when he was in Ellesmera and got his sword; than once he got a riders sword (which i’ve been anticipating for the last two books), the highlight of him using it is to cut open a door. bravo Christopher, nice creativity. now that i have a sword that can light on fire at my will i’m not going to lop off thorns head off with it, i’m going to open a door. copulating idiot
GOD on 28 September 2008, 16:19 said:

also, i think he tried to hard to explain every detail in the book except for the details that the readers cared about. for example; he took 20 pages of the book to describe how Eragons sword was made when frankly all i cared about was what it was going to look like when it was finished. i dont care how they made a forge and heated it up and tempered his sword and the mechanics of the sword forging in its entirety. than when Oromis battles Thorn and Murtagh (something i care about) he only uses maybe two pages to describe the battle and outcome. it seemed towards the end of the book that the story line was jammed into a couple of short chapters when he took the time to tell Eragons encounter with that guy in the abandoned city or whatever it was. it seems to me that Paolini is trying to milk the series for all that he can by procrastinating on the plot and replacing the book with filler. that or hes just a half good writer with a very good idea.
Virgil on 28 September 2008, 22:45 said:

I think a major problem with CP is that anything he can think of, he’ll just put it on the paper. Most (if not all) of his descriptions are put in the worst places. This doesn’t make it necessarily bad, but we can all agree that it frequently interrupts the story, and gets boring (Eldest).

You can tell when he wrote it, as soon as he came up with a way to show something, he put it in with no thought, and kept going. Where is his editor?

I reread my favorite books over and over, and sometimes I’ll catch a word that I missed, and it makes the story a bit better. Maybe what we need is two versions of the story. One that gives the basic facts needed, and another that goes into more detail in each scene.
SlyShy on 28 September 2008, 23:56 said:

I think his fundamental problem is lack of revision. Every one of his stories reads like a first draft.

Because it is hard to revise in quill and ink. You know, most writers hailed the word processor as the single most amazing thing to ever happen to writing. Paolini threw that down the drain, and it washed up on the polluted seashore, dead.
MegaB on 29 September 2008, 06:48 said:

LOL!

“Paolini threw that down the drain, and it washed up on the polluted seashore, dead.”

Eloquently put I must say! Howevere, be that as it may, Knopf ARE his editors. I would say that they have done a very bad job with Brisingr, almost to the point of a schoolboy’s editing skills! Unless Paolini truly intended to have all these broken, unconnected scenes in the final storyline the editing was definitely a bad job.

As I said before though, don’t write off the series just yet, Paolini is known for surprising us in his own unique way. To go with your analogy SlyShy; Sometimes things thrown down the drain turn out to be things that are coveted, like a fossil on the seabed.
Nickoback on 29 September 2008, 09:00 said:

What was with the frequent italic words???
Is that the new black?
I thought it was a code or something to begin with, like join them all up and reveal something extraordinary.
…jibberish
Carrie on 29 September 2008, 11:30 said:

Hey!

I followed the link over from the 5 Minutes for Books site. Thanks for leaving a comment on my post about it leading people to this.

I thoroughly enjoyed your review of it.

=)
SlyShy on 29 September 2008, 11:47 said:

MegaB, yeah. Although I don’t want to defend Knopf, I’ve heard Paolini was very resistent to his editors. I don’t know.

Nickoback, those indicate citations. Sometimes people like to make their CSS nice. ;)

Carrie, thanks so much. I enjoyed your review as well, although we obviously had different perspectives. For those of you that are curious, the review is here.
Christine on 29 September 2008, 14:06 said:

Yeah I just finished this. Yikes! I was soooooooo bored!

My personal opinion is he must be pretty arrogant to think he is still going to have a readership after writing such pointless crap. I’m sure that Eldest, Brisingr, and whatever the 4th book is called, could be compiled into 1 maybe 2 books of actual interest.
Jay on 29 September 2008, 15:36 said:

Unfortunately I would have to say I was disappointed in this book. Although I did enjoy the first 2 books by CP this did drag on and needed to be put down like a rabid dog. I am hoping though he has tied up enough loose ends in this book to give us what we are asking for in number 4. When you think about in the Harry Potter series, book # 6 tied up some loose ends and was really not as good to me as # 5 was. But don’t get me wrong it was still good, I loved it in fact but you still need to tie up loose ends to give everyone the answers that they crave. In closing what is up with that idiot THe burning jew. His comment up above were moronic. Thank you and take care.
SlyShy on 29 September 2008, 16:06 said:

Hey Jay,

His comment has probably made more moronic by my censorship of his gratuitous swearing.

And yeah, HP 6 did some things that needed to be done, but also the characters were engaging enough to sustain the book, I thought. I hardly hold JK Rowling up to be an exemplar of writing, but she is pretty good.
MegaB on 30 September 2008, 08:56 said:

Hi Jay,

I think you are correct in that regard, in fact, I think Brisingr borrowed alot of plot points from Harry Potter #6! The whole situation with Galbatorix and the Eldunari hits a bit too close for comfort to the Horcruxes and Voldemort…..

Anyway, putting that aside, it’s wrong to criticise the ENTIRE book! Indeed the first half was very bad, even by CP’s standards but the 2nd half was marginally better. The random plot points, so frequent in the first 200 pages or so almost completely disappeared, replaced by a coherent series of chapters that I felt were actually going somewhere. As I stated before though, CP may have something up his sleeves as that seemed like a kind of ‘run-up’ to the action that was MEANT TO occur at the end of the book, but for obvious reasons, was pushed to a further book as number 4. The ending of Brisingr, though, was definitely on a high note for CP. The fighting, both in Gil’ead and Feinster was engaging and very eventful. It was definitely what one would call an eventful ending! That definitely went somewhat to redeeming Brisingr in my eyes. Let’s just hope that book 4 starts on that high note and maintains it eh?
ziggy on 1 October 2008, 00:11 said:

I’ll admit it: I read Eragon 6 times and Eldist 8 times.

I will not be reading Brisingr twice.
MegaB on 1 October 2008, 08:38 said:

LOL Ziggy that hints that you will be reading it more than twice! Nice play on words there!
MegaB on 1 October 2008, 10:55 said:

Can anyone reccomend some good Action/Adventure/Mystery books like Eragon for me to read? I especially like sword-wielding novels with an intriguing plot.
Mystery characters like dragons and elves would be awesome too…
SlyShy on 1 October 2008, 11:16 said:

If you are looking for light reads, I guess I would recommend R A Salvatore. It’s far better than Eragon although its literally merits are still questionable. Regardless, I read a good deal of those books, because I liked the characters.
J Nick on 2 October 2008, 06:05 said:

Personally i think the book is targeted for teenagers. Christopher’s series is easy to understand and get into through a teenagers point of view. I myself attend high school, and i have seen kids who i never thort wuld pick up a book, read, and enjoy. Chris sets a very descriptive and informative setting, giving the readers a clear idea of what is really happening. What he has done and how he writes suits different people. Some seriously dont give a sht if his writing is not better thn sum other dude. He captivates teenagers attention, which i think would have to be one of the hardest tasks for a writer. He has done well thorugh his Inheritance Cycle, and i hope he continues.
SlyShy on 2 October 2008, 09:56 said:

Honestly, I think you are giving CP more credit than he deserves, and Knopf’s marketing team less than they deserve.
Taylor on 2 October 2008, 13:35 said:

I am a teenager in 11th grade in high school. I have read all of these books and i loved every one of them, even over such books as harry potter, Lord of the rings, and the wheel of time series. I really don’t know if these are common reviews of these books and if so i really feel like a idiot for thinking these such good works. i read them very quickly and thought about them through the day, i liked the pointless scenes, it gave it a feel of realism, every detail of the book having a profound point, immediately would make the book wild. i would like some feed back on this, if any of you have answers.
Jeff on 2 October 2008, 19:43 said:

I have to say i was dissapointed in this book, ive been following the series since it started. I patiently waited an entire year after the original release date to read this book, hopefully to end the story for good. I was dismayed when I began reading this P.O.S. 400 or so pages in and i knew it was gonna be a four parter (i didnt keep up with the press releases). The reason i knew is because of all the damn padding that was thrown in there. It felt like a freshman in high school trying to expand on a damn english paper!
Trey on 5 October 2008, 16:57 said:

Well, I have mixed feelings about this book. After reading Eldest, I guessed Paolini wouldn’t be able to finish up in three books. That’s fine, if he hadn’t been calling it a trilogy the whole time. It just shows a lack of foresight.
Also, I had to break off reading Brisingr at least twice. Once I fell asleep around 1am, which is odd considering I don’t sleep until two. The second time, I just got to a dull part and stopped.
Too much of the book was centered around Eragon traveling from place to place, and the events seemed relatively minor. An election, a siege of a minor town (that almost got Arya killed and relied on way too much perfect timing/luck on Eragon’s part), the preparation of a sword, and the retrieval of a sister in law are all that really happened to Eragon. I can excuse all this as prep for the next book (which better be good).
However, the language was a little too dull, and too much time was spent on descriptions. Arya’s boat or the gilded flower are great, but useless.
Most disappointing was Eragon’s outbreak towards Oromis. The anger came out of nowhere. Eragon became a child again, and for what? Why is his parentage Oromis’ fault? And any fool could guess Oromis had been forced to swear oaths in the ancient language, banning him from speaking of Eragon’s lineage.
I also wish the Arya/Eragon moments had more depth to them. We started understanding Arya a little, but it went nowhere, and all we got was a random hug after Oromis died, all the way at the end of the book…

All in all, Paolini spent too much time describing mountains and fields and air.

However, I would be lying if I said I did not enjoy the book. And while Eragon’s angry outburst seemed far too forced, Oromis’ death and Glaedr’s emotion was excellent. And to tell the truth, I enjoyed Roran’s adventures more than I enjoyed Eragon’s. Hopefully the less than brilliant qualities of this book are due to its position as a setup for an amazing fourth book…hopefully.
We’ll see.
Trey on 5 October 2008, 17:01 said:

Its possible that my literary tastes have simply changed between Eragon and Brisingr, but the originals seemed to move faster and waste less time with side events.
Virgil on 5 October 2008, 17:48 said:

Because of the lack of foresight made this book just a filler. Even so if he cut down on unnecessary descriptions through all three books, he could have kept the trilogy.
SlyShy on 5 October 2008, 18:45 said:

Hey Trey,

I enjoyed all the books as well. The thing is, I hope everyone can look past the mere enjoyment, and look hard at the book. That way as readers and writers we can improve. I’m glad people here enjoy the books, because that means they didn’t waste their money. I’m more happy when people are able to enjoy the book, and look at it critically, as you’ve just done.
MegaB on 6 October 2008, 18:46 said:

Hi Trey!
I must say SlyShy, I stumbled upon this site after looking for reviews to Brisingr when I was half way through the book! But we are getting many comments here!

Anyway, I digress! Trey, I can see where you are coming from, however I don’t think it is wise to criticise Paolini on his lack of foresight regarding the number of books. You have to understand that the first installment, Eragon, was finalised when he was only 15 years old. More than 10 years have passed since then, and you can definitely see an improvement in Paolini’s writing style since then! Not only that, but I also think that when he wrote Eragon as a 15 year old, he had no idea that it would sell as well as it did and so he didn’t have everything planned out. In the end, no matter how many of his fans may protest, he is no Tolkein or Lewis. That is why I was not too surprised that a 4th book has been introduced. In a way it also makes things far better as now he can focus all of the important details into the last book instead of constraining himself to a set number of novels as Rowling did, and I’m sure we all agree when I say that the 7th book felt rushed!

As Taylor said, although all the little ‘conglomeration’ of scenes seem pointless, it did add a different approach to CP’s prose and was a nice change. It showed that no matter how much Eragon attempts to convince himself of his duty, his emotions are still very much human, and he is facing the consequences of his actions every second of the way. In this way, Paolini was very effective, and was that not the aim of Brisingr? To clear up all the doubt about his multiple oaths and allegiances?

I think we can definitely look forward to an ‘epic’ with regards to the final installment. I, for one, am very interested in how Paolini will tie it all up!
SlyShy on 6 October 2008, 18:55 said:

MegaB,

If you think we shouldn’t criticize CP for his foresight, then we should criticize him for his pacing and prose, because every book has been far longer than it ought to be.

Really, I think a skilled writer could have done everything in the four books in two. I think Paolini could have done it. But he was probably attached to the romantic notion of the fantasy epic trilogy ala Tolkien. I don’t know. When you read the synopsis, you realize there really isn’t that much there to justify 700+ pages.
Virgil on 6 October 2008, 19:19 said:

MegaB, you have to remember, Eragon wasn’t finalized when he was 15. He started writing his first draft when he was 15. The final draft was when he was 18. And he also mentions he planned a trilogy out from the beginning, so in many ways he is to blame.
Elizabeth on 9 October 2008, 01:34 said:

To those who keep saying his writing style has improved…would you care to elaborate? As I see it, he still doesn’t know how to use a semicolon or even recognize and avoid run-on sentences. Nor does his convoluted sentence structure do him any favors, and I quote: “‘Would you I should stay or go?’” (I don’t recall the page number, but it’s in there.) Someone speaking actual English would just say “Would you like me to leave?” or something along those lines.
If there has been an improvement, it’s roughly analogous to watching the price of gas drop from $4.19 to $4.15: sure, there’s a slight improvement, but it’s still ridiculous.
SlyShy on 9 October 2008, 01:37 said:

Actually, it’s like watching the price of gasoline drop from $4.19 to $4.15 and then finding out the gasoline is actually pumped out of your septic tank and isn’t really gasoline at all.
MegaB on 9 October 2008, 18:06 said:

Haha! That gave me a good deal of mirth! An excellent analogy I have to say! But truly, is that a bad thing? His writing style is still very engaging and I think that he did hit peaks here and there at many points in the story. I still feel that scenes that were meant to feel ‘epic’ actually did feel like that! For instance the battle on the Burning Plains in Eldest.
SlyShy, Virgil, I do concede the point that his foresight was bad, you have said enough to convince me of the fact! However what I am saying is; can we really blame him? SlyShy’s point however was very valid. I suppose we cannot justify 700+ pages by the synopsis, but I still think he did a good job with what he intended. It really hit me, how Eragon was struggling due to his oaths so at least he fulfilled what he meant to, even if it was a bit long winded.

By the way, the gasoline analogy…..that was pure gold! :P
Eragon Skywalker on 10 October 2008, 00:36 said:

Firstly, i think this review is gold and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Sure, I mean, I enjoyed the book and almost, just almost couldn’t put it down. But, I can’t help but point out the flaws/faults/plot holes/more flaws/ like you did. This entire magic thing that Paolini has overused and is stretching really really thin is killing me. Basically, I’ve never been comfortable when authors inject magic into their books, partly because they never can do it properly, and with the questions that it always tends to bring about, leaving the reader constantly guessing, which is my main criticism of the Harry Potter books. It just automatically assumes that the character can just use a random spell to do nearly anything. In the book, it even said Eragon can fly with magic…. but just doesn’t… Now then, I can’t think straight enough to extend my rant further at the moment, so for a few questions. Plot hole from Eldest: How did Roran kill “uberpowerful” magicians like the Twins with a hammer when spellcasters are supposed to have wards cast around them to prevent this kind of thing? And the Ra’zac, there’s only two of them in existence? I know that there was only a pair that Eragon’s after, but from the first book, it always sounded like the Ra’zac were an evil hated race, like the Urgals. Another thing, why does everyone RUN OUT OF ENERGY ALL THE TIME IN NO TIME AT ALL!!??? They’re always like, no we have to conserve this, conserve that. Have they no stamina or endurance? Or are they just weak? Finally, why can’t Eragon kill any enemy mentally in an instant like he did on the Burning Plains? I know sometimes their minds are protected by enemy spellcasters, but like when he faces ordinary soldiers on the road, instead of having to hide or fight them in physical combat, can’t he just destroy them all at once in a split second? Once again, the whole magic thing has gotten way out of hand. Sorry, it’s late, so this isn’t the best list of criticisms ever, but still….
Aquarius on 10 October 2008, 02:47 said:

I think you’re being a little unfair to Paolini here. I agree the writing was bad in many places. I personally think that although he’s a talented author, he seems to be trying to do too much, he seems to think that in order to make a name in the writing world, he has to ‘boost’ his language with adjectives. Its quite sad, because he would be a lot better if he just allowed the words to flow.

And yes, there were a few unwanted sub-plots. The part where he stays behind to rescue Sloan was a bit unrealistic, I mean, what kind of guy risks getting captured and killed just to mete out appropriate ‘punishment’ to a crazed psychopath who doomed his village.

But on the whole, I enjoyed the book. The ‘filler’ parts were actually quite fun to read, regardless of how obviously drawn out they were. And the end, I thought the ending was great. It was a good idea to show Oromis’ death from Glaedr’s point of view, and ‘off-screen’. The sense of loss was a lot more pronounced, as compared to the rather unconvincing ‘grief’ Eragon feels for Murtagh’s death in Eldest. And I think there’s significant evidence that lots of people enjoyed the book. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have so many people criticizing it. If I recall correctly, Eldest received as much criticism as Brisingr, and yet people are still reading the series, and the sheer number of replies here indicates that.
SlyShy on 10 October 2008, 03:09 said:

Hey Aquarius,

You’ve got some good points here. Although I didn’t care that Oromis died one bit.

Like I’ve said many times before, we aren’t discussing enjoyability of the book, but rather writing. It’s good to note that better writing can make a book more enjoyable. I concede Brisingr was entertaining. But then, so were all sorts of cheap books. Drizzt Do’Urdan books are entertaining, as are paperback romance novels (if that is your thing). Entertainment is great, but as writers I think we want to strive for something more.

Anyways, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, the number of people reading a series doesn’t make it good. Beverly Hills Chihuahuas was #1 in the box office last week, does that make it a good film? I didn’t think so.
Super Awsm Azn Rugby Player on 10 October 2008, 20:37 said:

i just to tell everyone here that Gabatorix is actually Eragon’s Grandfather, if you don’t believe me check on Wikipedia and look up the fourth book.
Sadistic Slob on 10 October 2008, 21:04 said:

My comments, and some of the things which I picked out.

SPOILER ALERT.

I thought that the book dragged on.

I’m not the kind of person who grumbles when he sees that something has 400+ pages, I just think “Oh great! all the more to read” and trust that it was money well spent.

So many things in that book were drawn out.

And slightly too much detail can be a bad thing sometimes.

The random scenes I am unsure about, I think that it adds a sense of realism. Which is brutally mutilated by everything else in the book.

I would elaborate, but it is late, and I don’t want to spend enormous amounts of time on this.

Although I will use the example of.

In the second book, he gains control of some soldiers, and forces them to break the engines of war.

Whilst at the same time, they are guarded by a “magician”……

Whilst later on, when he actually needed to become a little leach, he suddenly couldn’t do the very same thing..

And then, as for all the other “battles” against the townsfolk.

They weren’t protected at all, is this character meant to be naturally stupid, or is the writer at fault?

I think I know the answer, and I’m thirteen years old, with such ailments as dyslexia… (I just wanted to make a point)

He has introduced a load of amazing things which you can do, things which anyone with a brain could have worked out before the end of the first book.

The flaw is…

(I actually took the liberty to devise this in a fit of boredom) He is riding in to battle, but whats this? siege engines! hmm.. too far away to hit, protected from every useful spell… I know, I will force the men there to save surprise attack them..

(after he becomes weary) “I can’t take energy from my surroundings, because the soldiers are protected.. oh wait, I can posses them with a little effort, and use their energy to, not only store great power within my belt, but also kill their comrades.”

It’s as if he is trying to write a children’s book (Oh wait…) with a characters who can’t think for themselves….

Until something gets pointed out by the narrator.

“Wait! you mean all this time I’ve been taking the dragon’s energy when I could steal someone else’s??”

Oromis dies..

Without even trying to use his supposed “100 years worth of energy” to kill/disable Murtagh…

Why couldn’t he just save us the anguish and get somebody to say “No Eragon, I AM your father…. Will help me evade the lawyers now.”

It is a relatively good read.

But for all of his detail, CP still misses out things, things which are actually important..

Forgive me if I have started to rant, rave, and loose control of my punctuation..

But it is late, and I am worried that people will forget classics, such as gulliver’s travels.

Thank you for reading this, I did manage to get into the flow of the book, otherwise I wouldn’t have read it all (Although, I admit that I skimmed over most of the part about Selena, the dwarves, and… most of the later half of the book)

I will probably read the next book, if just to see what has improved.
Hunter on 11 October 2008, 11:16 said:

Is is just me, or did he use the word ‘bah’ way too many times in this book? It kept making me think of Scrooge, and then I would laugh for ages.
Hunter on 11 October 2008, 11:33 said:

Another thing … this is just a personal opinion, but I really do not like CP’s attitude to religion. What he needs to realize is that there is a big difference between evidence and faith. Most religions are based on faith, not evidence.
sara on 11 October 2008, 15:01 said:

I was extremely excited to read this book, and a little dissapointed at the end. It seemed like CP just crammed information we needed for the final book into this one.
I think it was a little stupid of Paolini to not realize he had too much plot for three books! This one was bound to fall flat as it was just the extra.
Seriously, when i read Eragon i liked the series, but now I.m just going to read to find out the end.

Also- by the end of the book, virtually NOTHING had changed (except you learn Brom’s Eragon’s father, and Glaedr and Oromis die :<)
H.P on 12 October 2008, 07:24 said:

I have to say i was rather disappointed by what he had given us. The least he could have done was reveal who the 3rd rider was. Or better yet made galbatorix actually confront eragon or anything similar. I nearly dropped the book mid way for i found it rather boring. But im glad i stuck to it till the end, for it did give me some amusement when i begun to read the last 3 chapters. I have to say the story line was a weee bit predictable and a bit shallow. The way the characters conversed seemed like some badly scripted sit com. Besides that it was a good book. Not great, but theres room for improvement.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 12:34 said:

I think we pretty much all know the third rider is Arya…
Virgil on 12 October 2008, 12:43 said:

If we post it enough Paolini might change it… crosses fingers … but then I doubt it, he can’t have his perfect mate for his self insert not be a rider.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 13:41 said:

I think it is pretty clear Eragon and Arya will finally fall in love, and their dragons will too, and they will start the next generation of dragons and dragonriders. Of course, it is possible it isn’t Arya, because she had been carrying eggs around forever. And I wouldn’t want a cold hearted harpy as my rider.
Jeff on 12 October 2008, 14:19 said:

Ok here’s another thing that pissed me off royally about this book!!! Oromis died in a really joyous way! He has one of his seizures correct, and he drops his sword, that he put wards on specifically to HELP him if he had one!!! I thought oromis was SMART! how come he couldn’t have put an enchantment that said DONT FALL OUT OF MY HAND SWORD!!!!! he is copulating stupid if he forgot the most simple thing, even a kid could realize that “if i have a seizure i just might drop my fucking sword” DUMBGLUTEUS!!!!
Snow White Queen on 12 October 2008, 17:43 said:

i’m thinking that arya IS going to be the green dragon rider…aside from the point virgil brought up that eragon’s love couldn’t possibly be anything less (cp wants the best for his self insert), aren’t arya’s eyes green?

insignificant fact, sure, considering eragon’s eyes are supposed to be brown and saphira’s blue…but it’s just something i picked up on.

or it might possibly be roran…however, i think it would be the most interesting if it was katrina! that would be a huge plot twist…especially as she’s pregnant
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 17:54 said:

Arya also uses “Green Magic” which is ridiculous, since when did the magic system have a color system? This isn’t Magic: the Gathering, or at least, I hope.
Kellie on 12 October 2008, 20:19 said:

I just finished the book…I picked this book up the day after its release and I just finished it.

Yeah I was a bit busy with the start of school, but I can promise you with other books like Harry Potter 7 and Breaking Dawn I found the time, even if I read straight through a whole weekend. However with this series I am beginning to feel like its another Wheel In Time series…in other words…its not going anywhere…

This book bore me to tears, and it sadden me. CP is ruining his story. He has great characters and does NOTHING with them. Builds no tension, thicken no plot, half the book Eragon isn’t even with Saphira… Boring, boring, boring!!! Eragon should ache with every look at Arya, and what about Nasuada…the story line there is just dead…and she is one of my favorite characters…

The fight scenes and the conflict with Sloan, Roran and Katrina are the only redeeming factor in the whole book…

I liked Eragon, loved Eldest, and was excited about this book…now I may even forget to read the next book when it comes out…

CP you had me, and now you lost me…good luck on the next book…but please be more plot driven…
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 20:33 said:

Hey Kellie,

Thanks for your comment. It seems to be in the same vein as just about every comment. Anyways, I’m interested in what you thought of Breaking Dawn. Obviously it drew a lot of fire from fans, and I don’t particularly like it. What is your opinion on it?
Dan on 12 October 2008, 23:07 said:

Harsh reviews such as the one above and some contained in the responses below show us how warped people’s minds have become. Everyone is so busy picking apart this guy’s writing, they never even gave themselves a chance to enjoy it. When you have already made up your mind about how awful the book is going to be before you start reading it, no wonder all you see are the flaws. I also ask of SlyShy, please provide a list of novels you yourself have had publishes so I may read some of your infallible writing.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 23:13 said:

Dear Dan,

Try to read the site over again. I have repeatedly said I enjoyed reading the book. So the entire premise of your argument is flawed.

Never once did I claim my own writing to be infallible, in fact, upon further reading you’ll find places where I admit my own writing to be shaky. I am, however, seeking to improve my craft, which in a field where practice is everything is vital.

You can find a short story of mine in the Critique section. I would be delighted to see what you have to say about it. Broken Strings.

Anyways, it still doesn’t matter whether I’ve published a book because you don’t have to be a published author to spot flaws in writing. Just like I don’t have to be an Olympic Gold Medalist to know the guy walking on his hands isn’t doing the 50m dash correctly.

Come back and try again sometime later, maybe, and thanks for you feedback.
Dan on 12 October 2008, 23:15 said:

Also…

To Hunter,
I say “bah” to you. I found the word bah’s use entertaining, especially whenever in close proximity to a mention of sheep.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 23:18 said:

Oh, I would also like to comment on this weird thing I’ve noted.

To say the Inheritance Cycle is bad you need to: publish a book that is wildy successful.

To say the Inheritance Cycle is good you need to: own a computer.

Why the double standard regarding credentials? Because logic has always belonged to the skeptics.
Dan on 12 October 2008, 23:28 said:

Hey slyshy,

I just re-read your review and I am still not seeing the word enjoy. In my opinion, Paolini is swimming just fine and if I were him I would want the judges to have a little more experience than just teaching a water-aerobics class at the Y.
Virgil on 12 October 2008, 23:29 said:

Dan, you are logged in the large database somewhere as a fan who reinforces the fact that devout Inheritance fans are moro- well I don’t want to be mean. Most Inheritance fans are not logical in their arguments.

And ‘bah’ is a matter of opinion. I think it’s a perfect word to use in certain situations.
Dan on 12 October 2008, 23:37 said:

Virgil, your words only further the stereotype that most literary critics are narcissistic, pigheaded, sons of- but I don’t mean to sound harsh.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 23:56 said:

Dear Dan,

Again, thanks for your feedback. Virgil isn’t exactly a literally critic. Nor is that even a real stereotype, except in your head. And of course, you were lying when you said you don’t mean to sound harsh, by using the phrase in a caustic way.

Again, I would love to hear your comments on all aspects of the site. However, insulting our users will simply earn you a ban. Criticize content, not people.
SlyShy on 12 October 2008, 23:58 said:

You still haven’t read carefully. Look at the comments under the review. Let me quote it for you, since this seems to be a difficult task for you.

Hey Trey,

I enjoyed all the books as well. The thing is, I hope everyone can look past the mere enjoyment, and look hard at the book. That way as readers and writers we can improve. I’m glad people here enjoy the books, because that means they didn’t waste their money. I’m more happy when people are able to enjoy the book, and look at it critically, as you’ve just done.

— SlyShy · Oct 5, 05:45 PM · #
Dan on 13 October 2008, 00:12 said:

SlyShy,

A. Thank you for elaborating on my “not meaning to be harsh”, I feared some were just not up to figuring it out themselves.

B. What piece of literature was Virgil critiquing just before my comment.

C. I just realized this entire site is dedicated to picking apart children’s/teen literature like it’s some PHD hopeful’s dissertation
Dan on 13 October 2008, 00:15 said:

D. perhaps your sudden enjoyment of the book in the comments is due to your realization of the faults in your review in the face of other commenter’s arguments
SlyShy on 13 October 2008, 00:28 said:

In response to

A. Part of the problem with CP’s writing is he employs exactly this tactic when dealing with his reader.

B. That doesn’t make Virgil a professional critic, and you didn’t respond to my other point.

C. Took you a while. And actually, it’s about improving writier by observing mistakes present in existing writing.

D. Nope, I’ve always enjoyed reading the books enough to at least finish the book. That doesn’t mean I didn’t notice the blatant flaws in the book.
Dan on 13 October 2008, 00:36 said:

In response to your resonse

B. I was not saying it made Virgil a critic, I was refering to the fact that you felt honor bound to chastise me but not Virgil, I don’t care if you meant it for everyone I want you to reply similarly to Virgil or I am taking my toys and going home
SlyShy on 13 October 2008, 00:47 said:

That’s not at all how your comments came off.

If it would make you feel better, Virgil, be more careful next time. You wouldn’t want to offend anyone.

Dan, still go home. You aren’t contributing.
Snow White Queen on 13 October 2008, 00:48 said:

dan,

actually, i thought this site only picked apart inheritance and twilight in any great detail, and in my opinion, i think that they really do need some picking over. some of the criticism may be over the top, but it’s all in good fun. people may like the books, of course. i know many people that do. it’s all a matter of taste.

and i’m not saying that all books geared for teens are bad. there are teen books out there that are very good. i happen to love many YA novels, such as the book thief, speak, etc. however, a lot of it is mediocre, and fantasy especially tends to be guilty of this.

even if you haven’t published a book before, you know when someone’s lifted a supposed ‘astonishing plot twist’ out of star wars (hint- switch ‘luke’ and ‘father’ with ‘eragon’ and ‘brother’).

you know when you don’t care about diddly squat about what happens to the main character (or for almost all of them, for that matter), the author’s done something pretty seriously wrong.

i didn’t mean to drag on, but i like to hear the sound of my own voice :)

anyways, that’s my two cents worth.
Dan on 13 October 2008, 00:57 said:

Im board, I vote we change the subject and pick apart the flaws in character development in humpty-dumpty
SlyShy on 13 October 2008, 01:23 said:

Bored*

Anyways, you might be interested in reading Humpty Dumpty And Symbolism by Bernard M. Knieger.
SubStandardDeviation on 13 October 2008, 01:34 said:

Arya also uses “Green Magic” which is ridiculous, since when did the magic system have a color system? This isn’t Magic: the Gathering, or at least, I hope.

Well, Eragon’s magic is always blue (even the fire), which was established early in book 1. Likewise, Murtagh has a red (dragon, sword, magic) color scheme.

In M:tG terms, Blue/Red, though an odd combination, works quite well for Eragon. As a Gary Stu, his Blue side warps all reality to counter anything his opponent might throw at him, while his impulsive Red side grants him immense destructive force. And a dragon.

Arya is Green. Green cares about life and nature, and thus does not use creature-destroying effects…unless they’re evil nasty flying creatures, in which case they must die a swift and painful death. One can only assume her hawt leather outfits are made from Lethrblakas.
SlyShy on 13 October 2008, 02:12 said:

U/R was okay in Ravnica, but to a limited extent… it only worked because of Urzatron anyways. :P
Virgil on 13 October 2008, 08:08 said:

Well, I suppose I will have to be more careful on who I comment on.
Lord Snow on 13 October 2008, 18:32 said:

I like how Dan compared the book he was defending to Humpty Dumpty.

Also, anyone that is going to defend these books, please for the love of God actually think about what you are about to say before you say it. It might also be good to look at all of the arguments that have been used and have failed. Like the “u havent published anything so u should shut up” argument, and the “lol y r u critiquing a teen book” agrument. Maybe we are critiquing teen books because those are the books that relate the most to our audience, and people care about those books more than others. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here arguing with us about it.
Virgil on 13 October 2008, 20:30 said:

Yes, Snow you’re right. It might be one of those inverse equation laws: The more dedicated to Inheritance you are, the less your arguments make sense. But of course, I’m narcissistic and pigheaded, somehow.

Most Inheritance fans are not logical in their arguments.
MegaB on 14 October 2008, 08:32 said:

I have to say, this discussion is becoming more entertaining as time wears on! I actually laughed at Dan’s comment after I read it, the irony was a blatant stab at Virgil! Please, don’t allow this educated ‘banter’ to be degraded to simple-minded conjecture and insults.
If the comments are anything to go by, most of you are just reading the review and not the comments that go with it. I know the comments section is becoming quite large, but in my mind that shows that psychologically (and if anyone here has studied psychology at a decent level, you would agree with me!) it emphasises the point that most readers have taken enough of a liking to Brisingr to search for, and comment on, a lone reviewers thoughts.

SlyShy has pointed out some of the major flaws in the Inheritance Series’ plotline and I am grateful for it. It helps to see the story in the light it’s meant to be shown, but I think many people are forgetting that ALL authors are human, without exception! We all make mistakes, every Author does, and so far we have only looked at the flaws in Brisingr. Yes, I could write a whole essay of PQE (or whatever variation anyone who has done up to A-level/College standard english of essay writing) on CP’s writing but frankly, I haven’t the time :P.

As a book of fiction, Paolini has done remarkably well. He’s managed to hold most of his fans even so far in and that in itself is a testament to the interesting plot he has built up. To say ‘there was no development in Brisingr’ or ‘the storyline didn’t go anywhere’ is completely baseless. Paolini has in my opinion, achieved what he said was the goal of Brisingr. For those who have not read the early comments, I reiterate; The plotline quoted by the blurb of the novel was:

“OATHS SWORN . . . loyalties tested . . . forces collide.

Following the colossal battle against the Empire’s warriors on the Burning Plains, Eragon and his dragon, Saphira, have narrowly escaped with their lives. Still there is more at hand for the Rider and his dragon, as Eragon finds himself bound by a tangle of promises he may not be able to keep.

First is Eragon’s oath to his cousin Roran: to help rescue Roran’s beloved, Katrina, from King Galbatorix’s clutches. But Eragon owes his loyalty to others, too. The Varden are in desperate need of his talents and strength – as are the elves and dwarves. When unrest claims the rebels and danger strikes from every corner, Eragon must make choices – choices that take him across the Empire and beyond, choices that may lead to unimagined sacrifice.

Eragon is the greatest hope to rid the land of tyranny. Can this once-simple farm boy unite the rebel forces and defeat the king?”

Notice the emphasis on the results of his choices and tests of loyalty. The ENTIRE book was about his allegiances and his choices, whether it was the pragmatic politics of the dwarves, or the movement of the Varden, everything that was brought in met the requirements of this summary.

The thing was, and here I’m sure I speak for everyone, it was longwinded, drawn-out and contained unnecessary scenes that detracted from the overall perspective. However, it was still an engaging read and I feel, for the genre and audience it represents, it did a good enough job to deserve its place in the series.
We have already discussed the fact that there was unsatisfactory forethought and that is what led to the trilogy being extended, but again that has little effect on CP’s writing prowess!

About the colours of each charachters magic, how could it not be so? Paolini himself has stated that Eragon was influenced by many of the modern day novels that have this idea. It may not be original by a long stretch but is still one that has reasoning behind it. Each charachter has a different personality, a different style, so the variation of colour may be affected by this. There are many plot points that, and I’m pretty sure most would agree, Paolini has left for the reader to decide where the explanation comes from. For instance, the manner of Oromis’ death and the use of magic to kill soldiers. If you use your imagination, you can come up with a whole host of reasons as to why this is. Paolini went to great lengths to describe the fact that magic is a very crude art. It’s all about how you ask not what you ask. And this explanation allows the reader a great scope to figure out just what he means by that. Did the twins think of protecting themselves, or just about protecting the soldiers? Or did they think that they only needed protection from magical attacks but not physical ones? Similarly, did Oromis believe in his fighting prowess enough to think that he wouldn’t drop his sword?
This is actually a small gem in a haystack – not a needle. The fact that Paolini allows the reader to decide, even if unintentionally, and it shows that he has strove to make the charachters have faults that become their undoing. This also foreshadows the fact of how the whole series will be wrapped up. Maybe not by an ‘epic’ battle of Eragon vs. Galbatorix, but by something subtle that Galbatorix overlooked due to arrogance or ill-formed intent.

This was my longest comment yet, but please, a structured argument is far better and more convincing than an ill-conceived one. This may seem like a ‘glowing fanboy comment’, but I felt after picking out a few of the flaws in the comments, it would do well to remind people that Brisingr wasn’t all a massive shortcoming and that there were plenty of reasons to respect Paolini’s prose as well.
Carbon Copy on 14 October 2008, 12:13 said:

Okay, I was avoiding posting anything in the Brisingr reviews because that’s not why I visit this site, but I felt I had to comment based on what MegaB has said.

Before I start, here’s a recap:

I do not like these books, but I have already posted elsewhere on this site that I believe they have value. They have encouraged children to read, and to hold lengthy debates on the subject of literature. For these reasons alone, the books have to be applauded. I would prefer my child to read a book (even a bad one) rather than watch television, and if reading Brisingr encourages someone to go on to read better (although not necessarily bigger) books, then again, I applaud Paolini for what he has done.

Having said all that, some comments baffle me. MegaB has very articulately argued why Paolini’s obvious plot holes are in fact clever literary techniques that he is employing to help us better understand the world he has created and set up an exciting climax .

Another fan has said they loved the book, and yet openly admitted to skipping dozens of pages at a time.

The loyalty of Paolini’s support is incredible, and I only wish my readers were as forgiving. He is clearly doing something right. Fair play to him.
MegaB on 15 October 2008, 07:03 said:

Aha Carbon Copy, some very good points made there. I did however, say that it was quite possible that some of the techniques employed by Paolini may have been unintentional. I think that is probably the case with the whole magic fiasco. I do agree with you on the other example though. To love reading a book yet skipping over most of it?! What about it do you love?

As for the literary value of the inheritance series, in terms of language it is very well written. Structured sentences and grammatical techniques are almost overdone, in fact many would say there’s just too much in Brisingr! Otherwise, the rest is a matter of opinion, I like to hear what other people thought as I feel it allows me to understand the book better.
Rhaego on 15 October 2008, 21:32 said:

@Sly
Ya know, Arya’s green magic does make sense in that she hates ugly flying things. Green has Hurricane in Tenth Edition, Dense Canopy from Kamigawa, and the whole “Pretty is in” thing from Lorwyn.

I read Brisingr after visiting this site, and was unimpressed. I thought Eragon and Eldest were alright, Eldest was my favorite, and I even liked the passage about Liafen and Nari.
(prepares for stoning)
SlyShy on 15 October 2008, 22:06 said:

Haha, apparently there are a number of M:tG fans here.

Yeah, anyways, he really doesn’t need to steal from any more Magic systems.
pizza on 16 October 2008, 11:27 said:

omg! The book was decently good. I doubt any of you could write as well as Paolini can! It was a good book.
SlyShy on 16 October 2008, 11:40 said:

Dear Pizza,

Whether or not we can doesn’t matter. Fact is, there are tons of other authors who can, and have. Although, since the goal of this site is to learn from his mistakes, and avoid them, actually we probably could write better than him. We will find out in November. Cheers.

Please, if you want to say the book is good, give a rationale. Tell us what was good about it. We all give analysis of mistakes, nobody wants to give examples of strength, it seems.
MegaB on 16 October 2008, 12:34 said:

Ah SlyShy, that’s a bit harsh! Some people have raised some good points regarding Paolini’s good areas with regard to Brisingr. It’s just that not many people take the time to read every comment and so only intend to voice their own opinions based on your review.

Your review was excellent, there is no doubt in my mind about that. I do not necessarily agree with you on all the points made but it was definitely informative and helped to build a better perspective with which one can view the book. But isn’t that the point of a review?
SlyShy on 16 October 2008, 12:40 said:

MegaB, in fact, you have provided reasons, and I’m thankful for that. Which is why I don’t bother you for any. Mostly it’s just been you though. Thanks for the continued feedback, in anycase.
Rhaego on 16 October 2008, 16:28 said:

Am I the only one who noticed that when Snow White Queen attacked Dan, he pretty much said “Well whatever,” and changed the subject?
Eragon on 17 October 2008, 02:36 said:

I am the Rider and I will be victorious in battle!
Elizabeth on 17 October 2008, 02:43 said:

^
Can someone delete that, or shall it stand as a testament to the general immaturity of at least this one Brisingr fan? At least, I think he/she is a fan, it wasn’t very emphatically expressed.
Elizabeth on 17 October 2008, 02:44 said:

Oops sorry Eragon, I didn’t mean you. The post got deleted.
SlyShy on 17 October 2008, 02:45 said:

Yeah, I deleted it. :P
Silent Storm on 17 October 2008, 03:35 said:

Well, there seems to be enough points in the comments section to write another whole article!

Excellent review, Slyshy, it is still number one on Google search lists and at a time where there doesn’t seem to be many professional reviews (big surprise there) it provides a nice look into the tome that is Brisingr.

Just some of my thoughts:

My favourite bit of the book is when Murtagh delivers the final blow to Oromis. I admit, I felt some emotion when that happened (as a reader should, but perhaps I have conditioned myself to feel sorry for Glaedr? Or was it Paolini who managed to write that part well enough to convey emotion?)

It annoyed me that their fight should be limited to two small scenes though, and I felt it detracted from Eragon and Arya’s fight (did anyone else think that the whole fight with the shade was a bit…sudden? As if Paolini needed a cool enemy to insert just to have a fancy last fight? So, yay, Arya is now also a ‘shadeslayer’)

The scene with Tenga was extremely random and even though it was referenced later on in the book I felt it wasn’t needed. And if that scene was one of Paolini’s ‘I put scenes in my books that might not make sense now but when they go back to read it after reading the whole series they get it’ I’m not buying it. There are better ways to foreshadow or whatever he was trying to do.

The whole thing with the spirits as well, it’s as if Paolini wants to find any excuse he can to ‘infodump’ parts of his world onto us, that, admittedly, are coolish, but are not needed. In what way did the spirits scene advance the plot or the characterisation of Eragon or Arya?

Sometimes I wish that someone would recreate the Inheritance Cycle as something more riveting. Perhaps Paolini when he is older and more experienced will go back, read the Inheritance Cycle, cringe, then proceed to do a complete edit, no, a complete revision, and then release a revamped version. (On second thought…perhaps I don’t want that to happen. The series might actually get bigger)
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 10:21 said:

he should not have to rewrite the whole thing, not if he’d had people who’d actually criticized his works. the fact that he does says that either

a. it didn’t get enough editing
b. he doesn’t take criticism well, and he didn’t listen to whatever suggestions were given to him

or even both.

honestly, i don’t think you should go to your parents for that sort of thing unless you’re certain they’d be unbiased. but even then, if you’re in the publishing business, aren’t there plenty of qualified people to bug to read your draft?

unless (and who knows) inheritance was ALREADY heavily edited when it was published, and the manuscript was much much worse.
MegaB on 17 October 2008, 10:31 said:

Wow, some good points there Silent Storm! I especially agree with you in the fact that the Tenga scene just didn’t fit whatsoever.

However, it does actually seem that Paolini will use it as a plot point later on. This is evident from Angela’s statement when Eragon informs her. We will definiteley find out more about her past in the final installment and Tenga may play a big role in the fight against galbatorix. Remember, he has those scrolls that no-one is meant to have. So although the entire scene seemed very dislodged from the rest of the novel, I do feel that it will eventually have some significance.

With regard to the spirits, well…..I can also kind of view what Paolini was trying to achieve from that. I think he put in all those scenes regarding them to show how the shades were made and also to attempt to deliver the right emotions to the reader with regard to bad charachters. i.e. “This bad charachter is truly bad…..how can he do that to such things as the spirits??” Catch the sarcasm? :P
I felt that the major drawback to those scenes was that he dragged it out. He milked the idea dry and them some more.
Robby on 17 October 2008, 20:06 said:

I just got done reading the book… And thought it sucked! It has only gone down hill since the first one. This book just drug on forever, nothing really happened. He spent way to much time on explaining pointless things, and just glancing over important things. For instance; It took something like eight pages to make his sword. Who cares? then what was supposed to be such an important part, the siege of the city he just glanced over it. When saphira ripped off the roof he could have gone into so much detail, but he just glanced right over it.

Then when Ormis finally comes out of hiding and you think finally there going to kick some ass, He gets killed off right away! I mean what’s up with that? And Gleadr says “I was old when you were born, you will not best me” then he gets killed right away! the whole book was a disappointment.

The one thing that bugs me the most though is, that Eragon is just a big pussy. His brother kicks ass over and over, kill 200 people by himself. and the dragon rider who is supposed to be so stronger and kill Galbatroix, can’t even take on a couple dwarf’s by himself. he would have got killed, but once again luck swings his way and he makes it.
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 20:20 said:

i know, robby, murtagh kicks butt.

not like he’s the most wonderfully developed character out there, but out of all the characters in inheritance, i’m pretty sure there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that he’s one of the most popular.

i’ve always said that the books would have been so much more interesting from murtagh’s pov.

too bad we’re stuck with eragon, the generic hero/gary stu instead.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 20:23 said:

Not that it matters now, but some minor scene changes could have made it much better.

Tenga: I realized as well it had something to do with the plot later on, but he could have put it in the beginning of the fourth book, and it would be relevant.

Oromis’ death: Could have done after the seige. Then more focus could have been put on the seige and the Shade, and then we could have a decent insight into what was happening with Oromis, and watch Eragon suffer because he couldn’t do anything.

Spirits: Totally unnecessary. We knew all we needed to know about spirits before the book, that you could control them and so on. Even the little chat with Oromis about them revealed a little, but the scene did nothing. I kept waiting for something interesting to happen.

If Inheritance was rewritten, using the same plot, it would be so much shorter. You could do it in a book the size of Eldest. But if you actually made the plot cool, I don’t know. It would be in a much different place. I might try that. Just start in Palancar with the egg, and go from there.

ponders
Robby on 17 October 2008, 20:27 said:

Yeah to me it seems the only way he will be able to over throw Galbatroix is if murtagh changes his true name and helps Eragon fight. Other than that I don’t see any likely was of Eragon defeating them both! I mean after these three books when eragon has been such a wimp, he can’t just turn into some bad ass all of the sudden

Chris’s chance to make eragon a stud was then the Dragon’s blessed him, but no he is still a wimp. Roran should have found the dragon lol.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 20:35 said:

I bet you Roran will be the next Rider. That or Arya, and if it’s Arya I’m returning the book…
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 20:36 said:

i’m guessing murtagh’s going to die a cliched death, trying to help eragon overthrow galbatorix.

then the mighty (surviving) dragon rider will proceed to take all of the credit, plus his elvish babe, and sail into the distance.

sad but very likely.
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 20:44 said:

roran?

ehhh something tells me it’s not going to be him…however i have been wrong before. my clairvoyance is notoriously unreliable.

i mentioned before that having katrina be the final rider would be a big twist.

first of all, she’s a girl, and so far, we’ve only had guy riders take center stage (eragon, murtagh, brom, oromis). plus, she’s pregnant (isn’t she?). having a pregnant woman be a rider would be unexpected to say the least.

however, i don’t expect that to happen. it would be interesting though…

i’m betting on arya (and that when they’re both dragon riders, they’ll both be on some mission together, and arya will fall in love with him, and saphira will find a mate, etc. etc.)
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 20:46 said:

Hm… maybe Horst will be the next rider. That would be a twist. If so, I called it.
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 20:59 said:

haha, if the rider’s ANYONE but arya it would be a twist, wouldn’t it?

with that said, if it really is horst, all credit goes to you.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 21:20 said:

I’m calling Gertrude or Orik. That would be a twist.
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 21:29 said:

orik?

how would he even mount the dragon?

(although, that puts a very funny image in my mind XD )
SlyShy on 17 October 2008, 21:35 said:

How would anyone even mount a dragon. Saphira is like 18’ tall now. I want to know how Eragon can even hit people with a sword from way up there.

It’s not like he is using a lance or something.
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 21:47 said:

oh true. i never considered that…

maybe he uses a ladder to get up there…has a very amusing mental picture of eragon storing a portable ladder up his pants, to whip it out at an opportune moment
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 21:47 said:

Yes, apparently he can only ‘lop the head off Kull’, but aren’t Kull eight – nine feet tall at most?
SlyShy on 17 October 2008, 21:51 said:

He also gets punched off a horse in the face, you know like ten feet up.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 21:56 said:

Anything for the perfect storyline. I’m liking this idea of writing Eragon properly, and writing it with another storyline. We could make it an RPG on DEM.. if so I call.. I don’t know.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 22:34 said:

I thought Saphy was like 30 feet tall and had the girth of an effin’ mountain. How else could she have ‘Mighty Thews!’?

Well, Mr. Paolini, answer the Queen:
“Gladly! Orik would obviously mount the dragon using a stone ladder that was intricately carved with dwarvish runes that give the user unparalled strength and grace. It would be as tall as a small giant.

His saddle would shine in the moonlight like a flat silver pool under black hearted pines and have extra-long straps to accomadate for his small stature, giving him a disadvantage in combat. This would be made up for by Grtundurfgfer, his dragon. Grty, as he is so affectionately called, was the son of Rtyygheh, and Rtyy’s last rider was a human of unusually small stature. Coincidence, more like FATE! Neato, huh? HUH?”

well, there you have it.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 22:35 said:

Good gods! It’s like you broke into CP’s house, stole his manuscript, wiped his hard drives, then came back and told us!
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 22:45 said:

Well, that’s just the type of devotion I have.

Of course, that was an advanced copy, and I’m sure you guys want more detail than that, right?

Oh, by the way, Galbatorix dies by being betrayed by Shurikan, who is then put down by Arya, who says: “He was black; you’re lucky I let Nasuada live.”

Eragon then holds her hand, and they fly merrily into the sunset.

Oh, yeah, Murtaugh was killed by Eragon, right after he said Mighty Thews in a sentence.

Hypocrisy, no?
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 22:49 said:

You could publish that and make millions!
SlyShy on 17 October 2008, 22:54 said:

Actually, I’m sure that Murtagh’s true name will change, and then he will help Eragon by betraying the emperor and die ala Star Wars.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 22:56 said:

I’d have to throw in a few more adjectives to make millions. After all, that makes you a good writer, no?

If I rewrote The Inheritance Cycle (I’m still really sore about that) it would be two long books or three short ones.

And Elva would have died on the Burning Plains.

And Arya would have died from the poison.

And Nasuada and Trianna would be jockeying for the key to Eragon’s pants.

And Galbatorix would turn out to be a shade and that’s what made him “crazy” in the first place.

Oh yeah, and it would be from Murtaugh and Thorn’s (would have renamed him) P.O.V.

All in all, not many changes.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 23:04 said:

Yeah, like I said. If you made the story decent, it would be in totally different direction.

Book 1 – Eragon’s P.O.V.

Find the egg, hatches. They don’t leave Carvahall, and everyone finds out about the egg. Eragon finds out Brom is his father, and trains to become a Rider in secrecy and soon everyone is proud of him. But someone rats them out, and Empire comes, blah blah, Brom disappears and promises to come back, blah, Eragon and Saphira leave, but Brom gave him instructions to go to Ellesmera and meet the elves. Elves say ‘Oh Eragon! You need to go save the Varden! So Eragon rushes off, but he’s too late and Ajihad dies in battle and the dwarves are nearly extinct, blah blah blah, now it’s all up to elves and Eragon. They begin attacking the northern cities, and the battle is failing, Oromis / Glaedr are nearly dead, and Eragon is battling Durza, and is almost finished. Brom shows up, and they fight together but Durza lands an underhanded blow and kills Eragon.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 23:11 said:

Second book, Murtaugh, a young and unwilling vassal of the king, is on a cursory mission to the north when he is attacked and captured by the varden. He slowly gains their trust by giving the newly disorganized (because of Ajihad’s death) Varden information on the Empire.

He meets Saphira, and they bond (not like a rider and his dragon) and decide to save Saphira’s friends, the other eggs.

Thorn hatches for him, and he rides Saphy back to the varden, the journeys with Brom to the elves and trains.

After some training time, he and Oromis try and attack a city meet Galby, and Murtaugh runs while Oromis buys him time. Switch to Oromis’ p.o.v. End book two after a fight scene between Galby and Oromis.

I guess it would be three, whoops.
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 23:47 said:

Book Two Ending – Murtagh runs off, and Oromis fights Galby.

Book Three – Oromis POV

Open with fight against Galby, and two – three chapter long fight. Glaedr dies, and afterwards Saphira and Oromis form a close friendship having both lost someone. Murtagh finishes up his training with Brom and the four attack some small cities and towns. Now the elves own the northern part of the empire, and are preparing an attack on Teirm. Meanwhile, the dwarves and what’s left of Varden / Surda attack from the south. their campaign takes them north to Dras Leona (?) . cut to Oromis and Co, and they take Teirm. meet with dwarves and Surda in central Empire, prepare to attack Uru-baen.

—

Book Four – Brom

Open at the camps, an assassin poisons Hrothgar’s drink, and he dies. Dwarves are furious, and ask Brom + Saphira to look for him. They investigate a bit, and find out King Orrin was behind it. Dwarves are mad, and instantly attack the Surdans. The elves hang back, and realize nothing will stop them. Elves hatch a plan to steal the green egg, and Oromis and Brom go to Uru’Baen. after some cunning guile, they manage to steal the egg, and take it back to elves. Dwarves have now completely killed the Surdans, and the green egg hatches for a young elf named… I don’t know, Joe for the moment. So Joe goes and trains with Oromis, and suddenly Galby attacks them. With everyone’s combined power, they kill him.

It could end here, or Joe could go evil and such.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 23:55 said:

Joe could go evil, but not until his sister and Murtaugh hit it off and fall madly in love (over the course of a year or so, like normal people). They try and turn young Joe, and he pretty much gives em’ the finger and flys off.

Joe finds the Dwarves and convinces them (through a lot of charisma and a little magicks) to attack the elves and varden.

There is enough material here to write several more books. The fact that it is very sad Virgil and I just whipped up a story that is more interesting than Paolini’s is not lost on me.

/shakes Virgil warmly by the hand for a job well done/
Snow White Queen on 17 October 2008, 23:57 said:

hey virgil, you forgot joe’s last name…

sixpack.

i’m liking your plot line though! well, it’s less predictable than cp’s and more original for sure.
Rhaego on 17 October 2008, 23:57 said:

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!

The egg doesn’t hatch for Joe, it hatches for Oromis or Brom!!

GENIUS
Virgil on 17 October 2008, 23:58 said:

/smiles at Rhaego.. and Copyrights everything.. still smiling politely/

Yeah, it’s true. We can write a six book+ series on it..
SlyShy on 17 October 2008, 23:59 said:

Just call the series Dragon Riders of Pern and no one will notice the similarities.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 00:00 said:

Ouch… low blow, man.

We’ll call it Tales of Alagaesia.
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 00:02 said:

hey i think we need some female dragon riders…it’s not fair if it’s only guys.

i vote we make nasuada a dragon rider (or katrina, just to make it funny when she’s so much more powerful than roran), she and murtagh fall in love (he seemed to like her a lot in eragon).

and then, galbatorix is revealed not to be evil, and it was actually the riders who were corrupt and unfair, and the varden are actually terrorists who are disturbing the peace.

probably not as good as your stuff…but murtagh deserves a happier ending than cp is likely to give him.

and i just made galbatorix good to be contrary :)
SubStandardDeviation on 18 October 2008, 00:48 said:

Ah, memories…

Back through the mists of time, in the days when UBF was young, I, too, had delusions of grandeur. They started with a young farmboy named Cragon, his black dragon friend Shadowfax, and his brother Rorrin being drafted into the Empire’s army to fight the encroaching threat of the Elves. They continued with the sergeant Brom, the Dwarf crossbowman Oreck, and the mercenary Murtag helping Shadowfax slay the Elvish champion Eragon (insert accents as necessary) and his purple dragon Methysto, effectively finishing off the Elves. They ended with the Daracen general Ajihad, his sexy daughter Nasuada, and the senile king Galbatorix’s magic-obsessed son Durza warring for control of the throne of Alagaesia. Don’t even ask where Surda and the Dwarvish Kings come in. Garrow doesn’t die, dragon racial memory is a key part of the plot, and when you rip off Warcraft, how can you go wrong?!

@ Snow White Queen: Quoth Paolini —

There were as many female Riders as males when their order flourished. They were probably just a bit smarter, faster, fiercer, and kinder than their male counterparts.

Because if you’re a woman in a position of power, you can’t simply be a nasty ol’ bitch.
SlyShy on 18 October 2008, 00:51 said:

Oh, I think he was just making light hearted fun.

I think girls beat me at just about everything. :P
MegaB on 18 October 2008, 08:56 said:

@ SlyShy: That was just legend!!!! I actually laughed at your DoP Reference! It was hilarious! Although McCafferey’s books are still some of the best in that genre!

Regarding Saphira’s height, that’s definitely an issue! Maybe Paolini believes in ‘The Force’ i.e. he pulls out a variable length lightsaber and lops off the heads of everone from dragonback? Naturally the lightsaber is the same sapphire colour as Saphira….Irony no?

By the way, Rhaego and Virgil…..you lot are crazy. I see no other way to put it :P. Although I like your premise I’m sure you couldn’t pull it off without a heap load of time and effort, something not many people have unfortunately.
Oh, and Rhaego….

“His saddle would shine in the moonlight like a flat silver pool under black hearted pines and have extra-long straps to accomadate for his small stature, giving him a disadvantage in combat. This would be made up for by Grtundurfgfer, his dragon. Grty, as he is so affectionately called, was the son of Rtyygheh, and Rtyy’s last rider was a human of unusually small stature. Coincidence, more like FATE! Neato, huh? HUH?””

Pure gold….just pure gold!

……Thoughts: Joe Sixpack?!?!?……..

…..I’ll leave it to Paolini if I were you….
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 10:10 said:

we should hold a contest…inheritance rewrites.

that might be interesting.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 10:44 said:

Not for a while past NaNoWriMo.. that’s my main focus, I’m still working on my map… and side stories.
MegaB on 18 October 2008, 11:15 said:

Well yeah….Again, time and motivation.

And besides, I’m sure someone has already thought of doing just that over at FanFiction.net or TheFanfictionForum.

Anyone who can write well enough will do well to post up on either of those 2 sites. I’ll definitely check it out thats for sure. There’s the question of literary value though…
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 15:25 said:

yeah…

i’m focused on my nanowrimo too…but it’s ridiculously easy to twist around inheritance.

i mean, it took me just a few hours to formulate an entire plot (centered around galbatorix)

and yes, literary merit is always a question…i just thought it might be fun to see what people came up with.

one day, maybe…
MegaB on 18 October 2008, 16:24 said:

Well I’m rooting for ya!!!

Give us a link! I’d love to read anything you have to offer and I will definitely offer my humble opinion if you want!
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 16:44 said:

I think I might try an outline of what the Inheritance Cycle could have been. I don’t have enough time to finish what I’m actually writing, let alone a joke project.

And Virgil already copyrighted it all, that ass.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 16:53 said:

(maniacal laughter)

I’ll make a quick freewebs site and we can just post whenever possible.
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 17:06 said:

@ MegaB
This is mine. It’s not very good, and I’ve written a second draft that I think is much better, but there ya go.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 17:10 said:

Post it Rhaego, so we can ~~giggle and tear it apart~~ critique it.
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 17:18 said:

My first one was decent, and I’m trying to make the second draft good.

How long is appropriate? Cause the new draft is easily twice as long as the original. (added stuffs)

If you giggle and tear it apart, I’ll cry.

(grabs razor blade)
Promise! I’ll do it!
(holds to wrist)
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 17:21 said:

As long as it needs to be, but we have to read it.
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 17:22 said:

/sighs theatrically/

Fine, I’ll post it soon.
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 17:48 said:

yay!

i read your piece (rhaego) and i was interested in what happens next…so i’ll check it out sometime!

hey, for those who are doing nanowrimo, i had a question: are you going to post your works for critique WHILE you’re writing, or worry about that during december?

i think i’m going to just power through my first draft, and then edit it mercilessly afterwards. (my internal editor is a power crazy maniac. it reduces pages of hard work into a mere paragraph or two. and then, the next day, it says that i should just start completely over. it’s a vicious cycle)
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 17:56 said:

I’m not doing NaNoWriMo unless I get an absolutely stellar idea in the next few days.
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 17:59 said:

oh…yeah, it’s kind of hard to churn out three pages every day if you don’t know what the heck you’re doing.

but ideas form over time…the original plot i wanted for a story is so completely different from what i have now. they’re not even remotely similar.

but maybe by next year you could have a general, if something came to you.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 18:01 said:

I’ve more than a few stellar ideas, if you’re interested. I posted one at the end of the ‘Evil Overlord’, and ‘The Tower’ is another.
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 18:08 said:

I like what you’ve done with The Tower so far. It reminds me of a more mature version of Garth Nix’s The Keys to the Kingdom series.
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 18:11 said:

i read garth nix’s old kingdom books (well, two of them. i still have to finish the third), and liked them a lot.

as for the tower, it reminded me of a more mature version of the percy jackson and the olympians series (i love those books. don’t laugh at me!). maybe just because of the mythological creatures placed in the real world, and it’s probably not a valid comparison, but that’s what sprung to my mind.
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 18:16 said:

The more mature verions of Percy Jackson’s books (which I also like) are called Orphans, Fugitives, and Titans of Chaos.

The old kingdom books are great, but he wrote The Keys to The Kingdom as mostly a children’s series.

I’m still waiting for the last Pendragon book…looks like it will come out when Empire does. Hmm…wonder which I’ll read first?
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 18:20 said:

really?

more books for me to add to my list…

sigh it makes me a little depressed that there are all these great books out there that i want to check out, but never have the time. especially with all my school work…
Rhaego on 18 October 2008, 18:23 said:

Orphans and it’s kin are only good if you’re older than fourteen, otherwise, it’s just kinda decent because you won’t get the jokes.
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 18:25 said:

eh, i’m fourteen…but pretty mature for my age (or at least i think i am)
Robby on 18 October 2008, 20:53 said:

Sorry, off subject a little lol, but! I’m going to have to say that it wont be either Roran or Katrina.

Remember when roran was talking about living forever? he didn’t like it.

And then he would out live his beloved wife ;) which i’m sure he would rather die.

I’m going to have to say…. its going to Arya! so I guess you’ll have to return your book lol.

But it still might be Orik, it was kind of foreshadowing in the book about how the dwarf’s never tried to become part of the Dragon riders.

But the most like is Arya, and she’ll get a boy dragon and all four of them will live happily ever after… (four somes ;)… lol j/k)
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 21:07 said:

hmmm never considered that about roran…

yeah, you’re probably right about that. it probably will be arya…somehow, i just don’t think it would be orik.
Virgil on 18 October 2008, 22:07 said:

Robby you make a good point, but the story would be so much more interesting if it was Roran, because he wouldn’t necessarily be happy with it and Katrina would die. Then he can go evil…. evil…. EVIL ( maniacal laughter )
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 22:09 said:

it would be so much more interesting.

that’s why i’m pretty sure cp’s not going to do it.
Robby on 18 October 2008, 22:42 said:

Yeah i’m sure what he is going to do is, that one one is going to get the egg until have Galbatroix is defeated.

Because now he made it so there isn’t enough time too train the new rider to fight. So if he went into battle he would be just an easy target.

So… little pussy Eragon somehow is going to have to do it on his own when . . . he can’t even beat murtagh by himself..

One thing that I didn’t understand in this book was when Ormis and Gleadr were fight Murtagh, why didn’t the elves help Ormis like they did Eragon? and then… after the fight and thy died…. The elves still took Gil’ead.

But that makes no sense! Becaus if murtagh and Torn beat them, they could have healed up and attacked the elves. And without Ormis the didn’t stand a chance… so what after they beat them they just flew away? just doesn’t make sense. You would Think Galbatroix would have whipped out the elves when he had the chance… I dunno the whole book just didn’t make sense
Snow White Queen on 18 October 2008, 23:37 said:

somehow, i don’t think christopher paolini knows much about war strategy.

i’m not saying that i do either, but still…
Legion on 18 October 2008, 23:54 said:

That doesn’t mean he can’t read up and do his research on strategy and tactics. Jeebus knows there has been plenty written on the subject. That’s just laziness hinged on the belief that his readers will swallow down whatever crap he shoves towards their open beaks.

But series like Inheritance caters the brainless for a fan base so I doubt CP is overly concerned about nuances like tactics. Or consistency. Or logic.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 00:11 said:

He’s pretentious. Or maybe he really isn’t on purpose, but his writing sure is.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 00:19 said:

i think his main problem is that he wants to live up to his idols so much that he’s unable to come up with anything on his own, and then tries to compensate.

that, and he doesn’t seem to listen to a lot of the suggestions for his work.

of course, that’s interpreting it sympathetically…
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 00:22 said:

Symptoms of a fan fiction author.
Legion on 19 October 2008, 00:23 said:

Oh, there’s no doubt about that. Anyone who can say, “One of the greatest pleasures of reading this series is seeing J.K.Rowling develop as a writer, and she certainly spreads her wings here” about when asked to review Harry Potter is definitely a pretentious little prick.

C’mon, Chris. Rowling is the author who CONVINCED PUBLISHERS that teens will even consider reading your 800-page piece of crap. If respect is too much to ask, at least show a little more appreciation.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 00:26 said:

I’d like to meet or at least talk to Chris one day. I’m sure he’s under a lot of pressure by Random House to keep their cash cow going, and he’s getting a lot of heat from us, DEM, and AS. I wouldn’t be the happiest guy in the world, even writing something I loved. If you read this Chris, shoot me an email.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 00:37 said:

too bad that interview didn’t happen.

it would have been interesting to hear CP’s take on things.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 06:40 said:

Ahh you know that is really and truly harsh! If I have this down correctly, Paolini started Eragon at the age of 15. Now that’s pretty young for a budding author, but he did an excellent job with the first installment. It was exciting, well planned out and overall an enjoyable read. I don’t think that anyone should have expected him to know the first thing about tactics and warfare at that age! I certainly didn’t!
Having said that, I previously stated how he had dug himself quite a few holes with regard to plot points. I didn’t fully understand the scope of it until reading that discussion just now between Snow White Queen, Virgil, Rhaego and Robby. It seems that many things which should have been introduced in Eragon to pull the weight for the rest of the series, just wasn’t present. Sadly now we are coming to realise just how little Paolini planned for the future installments when writing Eragon. I can’t say I blame him though! A top 50 book at the age of 15…..that’s pretty awesome.

But guys….(and girls :P) you have to realise that due to the extremity of his plot, things like this were bound to happen! He simply can’t fill every single plothole he has previously made, just like Rowling in the final book of Harry Potter. That is why I mentioned that he intentionally or unintentionally left so much of Brisingr open-ended so that the readers can decide the question of ‘why did this happen?’ for themselves. I know that may seem too far-fetched, but really, a writer of his calibre (at the mere age of 15 I might add) making this many mistakes unintentionally strikes me as absurd.

Although if anyone has a better idea I would love to hear their opinion on this!
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 08:16 said:

Eragon was very well written for a 15 year old; however, that doesn’t mean Eragon is a good book. Far from it.

The book suffers because Paolini was so young. He hadn’t had the time to perfect his craft. He wrote himself huge plotholes (no, not on purpose, they’re just plotholes) and he generally lacked the self-restraint to put together a well-oredered and well-structured story. This is exactly why very few 15 year old children get their books published. The basic talent may be there, but it takes YEARS to hone your talent. All of the books I wrote when I was 15 suffered from exactly the same problems as Paolini’s books, the difference is, nobody else got to see my early mistakes.

Of course, at age 15 you wouldn’t expect someone to know about tactical warfare. Again, this is exactly why a 15 year old who writes a book about tactical warfare will not get that book published. Authors should write about what they know (either from experience or research).

There is nothing at all absurd about a writer at age 15 writing plotholes. In fact, it would be incredible if there weren’t any plotholes.

“Extremity” of plot is not an excuse. You can plot the most convoluted story you can think of, and still avoid plotholes. It takes a long time. You can’t knock it up in half an hour and then start writing. Do not believe that writing something complex allows you an excuse to write plotholes or you will never grow as an author and your work will be poor.

Every plothole that you write (and this is true of Eragon) will breed further holes. It works like this: You discover a plothole that ruins your future plans, so you write in something to cover the plothole. But by covering that plothole, you have had to write something ridiculous, which will cause more problems, which you then have to cover with even more ludicrous developments. This is why there are so many plotholes and unanswered questions in the Inheritance cycle: it is growing from the first book (a very shaky foundation), which was written by a 15 year old who hadn’t planned ahead. Simple as that.

Don’t apologise for these shortcomings; learn from them for your own writing.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 08:58 said:

You should do an article on the plot hole snow-balling effect you just described. Anyways. Eragon was started when he was fifteen, and written over the course of three years. Possibly the problem here is he was surrounded by yes-men like his family and his publisher, and when Eragon got out into the real world, it wasn’t as great as everyone told him. The worse thing is he failed to improve dramatically.
GC on 19 October 2008, 09:11 said:

Er, Paolini did NOT write it at fifteen. he just started. He FINISHED writing at eighteen and had it published at nineteen.
I’m eighteen right now, and I’m pretty darn confident anything I write will turn out better than Inheritance.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 09:16 said:

We know he started at fifteen.
Joe the plumber/ Simon on 19 October 2008, 09:45 said:

Amazing book everyone should love it GC ur wrong
Sadistic Slob on 19 October 2008, 09:51 said:

Why?

Give us a reason, or stop trying to “defend” the book.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 09:54 said:

Simon, you’re welcome to post an article about the merits of Inheritance, if you’d like. You would be the first, no fan has had the courage so far.
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 09:57 said:

Everyone knows he didn’t publish the book until he was much older, but Paolini started when he was 15, and that’s important. The idea, the characters, the plot, the narrative style: all developed while he was 15. The basic building blocks on which he has further developed the story were laid when he was 15.

Yes, the book would have been edited a little, but do we really believe that at 18 years old Paolini suddenly went, “Hmm, not sure this plotline is working, I’ll rewrite a big section of it. The book won’t be publishable for about two more years, but it will be worth it.”

Of course not.

Fundamentally, what you are reading when you read Eragon is the work of a 15 year old, regardless of when it was actually released. By the time the book was released, Paolini should have known better, but by then it was too late, and the rot had set in, and that rot will ruin all subsequent books in the cycle, no matter how old he gets.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 10:24 said:

Well put, Carbon. Hopefully whatever he does after this might be better.
Legion on 19 October 2008, 12:22 said:

I agree that there are some major and irreparable fundamental issues with book 1. However, I don’t think that they were big enough to ruin the subsequent books. The rot only set in because CP failed to address the flaws that could have been fixed, which there is absolutely no excuse for.

Books 2 and 3 should and COULD have been better, not worse. The fact that book 1 is the best out of the series is why the age card gets played so often and eagerly but at this point, is it really a compliment to CP?

Is it really flattering to him when even his supporters say that the best of his works so far was the one he did at 15? I wouldn’t take that as much of a compliment at all. Everyone who still wants to play the age card really should think through the implications of what they’re saying a bit more.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 12:23 said:

Thanks a lot Carbon! Those were some excellent points and put that way I really can’t disagree with you. However to say that all subsequent books were destined to ruination is a not so accurate. I think he did a good job with eldest. There was a lot of plot development with the introduction of Oromis and Glaedr and the story felt like it was going somewhere. Also there weren’t many ‘WTH?’ parts in it, at least I didn’t think so when I read it, although that was a while back…

I really could not put the plothole subject better. That was actually what I was trying to say the whole time, you managed to articulate it a whole lot better than I did, except I wouldn’t blame a 15 year old for leaving plotholes. If anything it’s the publishers’ fault. They should have advised Paolini to put off the publication for a few years so that he could revise the script and plan the rest out. Can you really blame a 15 year old who just wants to publish a book?
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 12:24 said:

See, thing is, I don’t want to read a book written by a fifteen year old. I want to read a book by a seasoned person who has seen the world, who knows enough about life to write a beautiful story about it. I want someone who knows in the ins and outs of tragedy, love, pain, misery, and profound joy. I want to read a book by a world traveler, a researcher, a life observer.

I don’t want to read a kid’s first attempt at a novel. Not when he is still discovering his voice, discovering how hard writing a novel is, discovering facts about life. Nobody’s first novels are published. Writers whose names we all know built up extensive collections of rejection slips. They had to struggle and toil until they found artistic perfection, their voice and their style. Christopher Paolini is still looking for his, but he was published before he could find it. Right now, he is just borrowing from others. Everyone starts out that way, but after a while they can molt that shell and use their own voice.

Done ranting now.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 12:31 said:

can we get an article about this? this discussion is getting very interesting…

but to put in my own two cents:

yes, it’s a big accomplishment to be published so young, but i really think that he should have grown during the later books. ironically, i liked eragon the best.

and secondly, still speaking about him starting a novel at fifteen, i’m a year younger, and while i agree that my writing still needs a lot of work, the general IDEA that i have is much less derivative than CP. (0r so i would hope)

so there should be no excuse for the unoriginality of his plot either.

(and yeah, i agree with slyshy. CP has definitely not found his niche yet, and should not have been published before he found himself.)
Legion on 19 October 2008, 12:38 said:

But you have to admit, it’s harder to know what makes a good book good than what makes a bad book bad. Because Inheritance is so flawed it’s easier for young writers to pick out the “don’ts” and the real examples Inheritance provides in itself can be a better teacher than an entire shelf of “writing help” books.

Fact of life: We all know that the bottom line for publishers is profit. If they smell a book that will sell, they will publish it good or bad. In bygone days, they used to be under the belief that only quality will sell (similar to the belief that teens won’t read big books) so they only allowed quality authors with quality books out. But Paolini has proved them wrong. Thus series like Twilight two years later. Don’t be surprised if more and more of these kinds of low-quality novels hits bookshelves and becomes best sellers in the next few years.
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 12:41 said:

Ah. Don’t even get me started on the deterioration of culture these days. Music, movies, books, etc. what happened to the class?
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 12:42 said:

just look at those stupid clique books, or gossip girl, or a-list…gets ready to tear out hair

yeah, i hate them even more than inheritance. snobby rich girls make me want to scream.

but i think crap books were being published even before eragon, weren’t they?

i have eragon and eldest at home, (in a box somewhere), maybe i will pick it apart one day if i’m bored.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 12:44 said:

I think Paolini would agree with everything said here, even if he won’t admit it himself or his publishers won’t let him admit it. Hopefully he’s learned a few lessons from Eldest and Brisingr, and can maybe make Empire better. The sad part is that his publishers want him to release a book really quickly so they can make more money. All of this would be any merits of Inheritance article.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 12:48 said:

i know, and i think it’s sad… in fact, if his work had been edited more thoroughly, it might have been miles better.

what he will do when inheritance is over is anybody’s guess. i suppose knopf will want him to write another series.
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 12:50 said:

There is a difference between editing and massive rewrites, and that’s the problem. Michelle Frey isn’t allowed to take the book and rewrite the characters. Although she might have made a lovely story out of it.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 12:53 said:

Yeah, would have been nice if she did. I’m sure she suggested a rewrite though, but maybe not.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 12:56 said:

on that note, how long do you think it should have taken paolini to finish eragon and get it published IF he’d done it right?
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 12:58 said:

All books IN THIS SERIES are destined to be poor, because in a series, everything is fed into from that very first book. Your main character, your main plot, and your overarching story; it’s all based on that initial concept. If the first book is plothole-riddled and largely unoriginal, then anything you do is going to be tainted. There is no way to recover.

You can get technically better. You can learn to write in a more fluid way, dropping purple prose and finding more inventive ways to express character motivation. Later books can have better WRITING, but they will still suffer because of how the ball started rolling. This is the nature of a series, and something new writers should really be aware of. Almost all new writers want to start off by writing an epic saga spanning three or more books. Rarely a good idea.

How is it possible to say the later books are marred by the plotholes he created to begin with, and then say that the later books AREN’T destined to be ruined?

Look at Eldest. How is this a good book? How was the plot developed? We are introduced to a crippled elf and a crippled dragon, who spend a whole book training Eragon for no purpose whatsoever because Eragon gets granted power in a blood ceremony thing anyway.

For me, Eldest was the point where I realised the plot was going nowhere at all, and the point where I drew the line and said I wouldn’t read any more of the series.

Oh, and don’t blame the publishers for putting out a book they think will make money. Remember, the author is the artist, and a publisher is the business end of the wedge. If they know they can put out a book that is average at best and still sell millions because of the age of the author, there is no way they are going to wait to publish the book because then the marketing angle is wasted.

And I don’t blame Paolini for using his contacts to get published either. I wish him every success. I’m not saying anything about how this book got published. Publishing is a business, and as much as authors may hate that idea, we all have to accept it.

I don’t blame Paolini for seizing his chance, and I don’t blame the publishers for seeing a money-spinning opportunity. But the books are poor, and I think everyone involved knows that.
Legion on 19 October 2008, 13:24 said:

@Virgil: Lol, I’m tempted to write something speculative of the reasons why Inheritance sells so well despite it being so bad but it might very well turn out to essentially being a paper on the deterioration of culture that SlyShy mentioned. XD

@SWQ: Crappy books are always being published (and will be so long as publishing houses think it’s potential profitability is worth chancing) but previously they didn’t sell. Inheritance is speshul because it’s crappy but actually sold. And sold well enough to top lists.

@Carbon: Agreed, I don’t think either Paolini or the publisher is blameworthy here for realizing that there was an opportunity then seizing it. If anything it’s a brilliant business decision that really paid off and I applaud them for being bold enough to take that risk in the first place. It’s the consumer end, the underlying phenomenon of the books actually selling and the reasons why so many average readers are under the impression that the books are good that interests me the most. Must be the history major in me. XD
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 13:26 said:

carbon copy:

again, you’ve made great points. eldest for me was when i stopped liking inheritance too. and i was actually a fan. i read eragon several times, bought it, read it MORE, waited for eldest, and was disappointed.

but as you said, even IF the original plot was (very) flawed, he can improve on his writing. he hasn’t, as far as i can tell.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 13:27 said:

It relates to Twilight as well. A growing generation is going into the world thinking that Inheritance is good writing, and everyone should have their ‘Edward’ in life, and should act like Bella.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 13:34 said:

i know.

i used to go a lot on yahoo!answers to discuss books and such (this was before breaking dawn was published, and there was this huge twilight frenzy)

the place was FLOODED with questions like ‘who thinks that twilight’s the best book ever!’‘omgz lyk edward cullen is lyk sooooo sexy!’ ‘how can i become a vampire like edward cullen?’ and on and on and on.

there was even one situation where this guy liked a girl, but she would only go out with a guy like edward, or something crazy along those lines.

pathetic, really.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 13:37 said:

and i’d like to add that the spelling and grammar was awful. you could barely comprehend what about 80% of these fangirls were saying. that, or they’d type like this:

OmGz LyK eDwArD cUlLeN iZ sOoOoOo HaWt!!!!!!!

you have no idea how long it took me to type that.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 13:37 said:

Well, you can’t blame the actions of her fans, that’s their problem. The thing is, you don’t see much widespread ‘likez, omg, i won’t go out with you if you dont look like hary poter!! or ron!! omg i luv ron!!’ You see that with Twilight because Bella and Edward are Mr. Mrs. Gary Stu, the perfect people.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 13:40 said:

yes, that is true…

there was even an epistle on this subject. granted, it was about inheritance, but i think it applies here too.
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 13:44 said:

I’m very tempted to judge books by the maturity of its fans, but I’m afraid that is some kind of logical fallacy.

But then, only little kids like Oh Me, Oh My, Oh Dinosaurs, so..
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 13:49 said:

well, i guess there’s SOME sort of relationship.

people who say that pride and prejudice is their favorite book, for example, almost never (in my experience) talk about darcy (ten times better than any vampire!) the way that edward is discussed by fangirls.

so maybe it is the maturity factor. like the epistler said- immature fans for an immature work.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 13:58 said:

The sad part is there are more immature people out there, and if all of them like a book, it tops the NYT Bestseller list, which apparently now judges good books, based on popularity.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 14:19 said:

the word ‘bestseller’ implies that it’s very popular anyways.

however, i was disappointed when they gave twilight a positive review (NYT). bella, ‘relentlessly intense heroine’? um, not really! i never was under the impression that she was any sort of heroine at all.

looking at the original review of eragon, the NYT points out the unoriginality, cliches, and ‘B-movie’ dialogue. however, the reviewer says that it’s impossible not to care about eragon (hah!) and gives a generally favorable review, even saying that one part was reminiscent of poe, of all people.

then again, eragon was the best of them so far…(can’t find the eldest review)
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 14:29 said:

Entertainment Weekly has given Inheritance pretty consistently bad reviews (even naming Eldest worst book of the year, I think), bless their hearts.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 14:32 said:

really?

wow. i never knew that…

i’m looking forward to a review of brisingr though from the NYT…see if they revise their former opinion.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 14:50 said:

I doubt it. NYT seems like a yes man to Inheritance
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 15:21 said:

unfortunate…they’re really good otherwise
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 15:42 said:

And here heralds the 225th post of this comments section….Yeesh people we’re getting pretty big here!

OK OK, let’s look at this from a more outward perspective:

> First off Paolini was 15 when he first started writing Eragon. We are all agreed on the fact that this caused many problems for his later sequels due to a lack of planning and generally an open-ended storyline that has led to a great amount of plotholes.

> Secondly, publishers, being the people they are, were only looking for a story that would sell and therefore Eragon was pushed through the publication line and we now have it on the doorstep (literally for some people…)

> Thirdly, the majority of reviewers look at the series so far from a popularity perspective rather than a literary one. That causes a great many problems for readers who are looking for quality novels.

> Next, why are we discussing this again?….

Just kidding (couldn’t help myself :P), We all agree that the Inheritance series so far does not come anywhere near the standards of authors the likes of Poe, Tolkein and the like.

However, and this is the main point I would like to make at the moment, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE INHERITANCE SERIES IS NOT A GOOD READ
I think we should all agree that for a good book to be good, there are many factors involved:

> First and foremost, the literary value should be good, if not excellent. There’s no point in reading something that cannot express itself the way it wants to be expressed. The emotion, setting, prose; all of this has to be present and well written for a story to be told effectively. I for one believe that out of everything that Paolini has written, he has at least given himself a strong showing in this department.

> Next, the plot must be concise, yet to the point. It has to be something that anyone can pick up and understand. This is the section where Paolini has fallen. His premise has so many plotholes, and readers can’t seem to decide what he intends when he introduces a new thing to the storyline. A good example here, as discussed before are the points made about the spirits, the magic system in general and also the disjointed scenes.

> Finally, the deciding factor after all of this, is usually how many of the readers enjoyed the story as a whole. Did you feel the emotions that were attempting to be expressed? Could you visualise the story exactly how it was written? Could you honestly say that what you have read will appeal in the same way to people who are similar to you?

Now all that was in a very short form. Anyone who has studied english to a proper level would be able to write a paper far longer and more detailed than this, however the point I’m trying to make is that the Inheritance series ISN’T bad! It isn’t amazing either but it definitely is not bad. It has its ups and downs, some more significant than others however, it does excel in departments that have caused the book to be on sale throughout the whole world. That in itself is a testament to the fact that the plot is engaging and many people generally have a good impression when they pick it up and read it.

Lastly, the series isn’t finished yet, so do we really have a right to pick apart Paolini’s plotholes (MAN I’m doing the rhyming thing again!) without knowing where he intended to culminate things? Shouldn’t we, as readers at least give him the respect of allowing him to finish the story before we mercilessly tear his plotholes apart like crows after carrion?

This, however, does not excuse the rest of the flaws, only the plotholes. I hope some of you would agree with half the things I have pointed out though!
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 16:12 said:

MegaB, again you argue very articulately, but I for one cannot agree with you. I have said time and time again that Paolini has the technical knowledge to craft good fiction, but as of yet he has not been able to use that technical skill in a meaningful way.

He overwrites his scenes to the point of ridiculousness. I never feel any emotion for the characters, because nothing they do has any lasting impact. Characters constantly struggle with morals that they instantly forget when a “cool” scene is required.

Paolini has huge potential, but as of yet I do not believe he has produced anything good. I have given up on this series. I will not read book three or four (or any others he decides he needs). This is the sign of a bad book. I invested enough time in the series to read two books, and I don’t care enough to find out what happens in the end.

More proof: several posters claim to enjoy the books, and yet skip sections of the text. How can you be enjoying a book and skipping the text at the same time? How can you possibly be investing any emotion in the outcome?

If I am going to be particularly cynical, I would suggest that the reason Paolini did well is because all the other 15 year olds in the world went, “Look, he’s published at 15. I could be published too. I will read his book to learn his secret and then write my own masterpiece.”

Finally, when someone drops a deus ex machina of the calibre of the blood ceremony halfway through his second book, then picking apart the plotholes in the story is fair game. Important lesson: readers do not have to respect an author, but an author must ALWAYS respect his readers. If people buy your books and invest in your characters then you owe it to those readers not to cheat them out of a satisfactory conclusion.

Thanks for posting your arguments so clearly. It’s refreshing, but I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 16:19 said:

MegaB, you are probably the most suitable candidate to write a pros of Inheritance article, but I agree more with Carbon’s point of view. It comes down to whether you’re willing to care about what happens to everyone. While I do want to know what happens, either way it really won’t matter. We’ve looked at practically every possibility, so it won’t be a big surprise.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 16:36 said:

@ Carbon, I would have to agree with you on a few points there. Indeed, many of the readers at the ‘suitable’ age-group that the series is pointed towards would get that idea, and yes, I do think you have convinced me that it led to a point where many were reading it simply due to the fact that they could relate with the author, being the same age themselves.
I also agree with you that some readers are totally confused as to their standing with regard to “liking” a book. I, for one, believe that you can’t enjoy a book unless you have read and understood the work in its entirety.

However, with regard to the plotholes…Indeed respect must be given to be received; that is undoubtedly a fundamental in human interaction. However, the debut novel, Eragon, was good enough to earn Paolini a degree of respect from the readers, hence the discussion at the moment. The point here is that Paolini should have at least a little respect from his readers, if not only due to Eragon and not the rest of the series. How can we criticise something without knowing the ending? How can we say “this is a plothole” without giving Paolini the chance to elucidate and fill in the metaphorical grave?

Logically that can’t be, SHOULDN’T be done as it means that we, as educated readers, did not give him the benefit of the doubt in the timeframe he himself has specified.

It all boils down to the fact that plotholes are plotholes unless they are stopped from being plotholes and when you say ‘fair game’, the game has not ended for it to be judged as fair!

@ Virgil, I understand that many of the points Carbon has brought up, have been from established areas of weakness in Paolini’s work. I do not begrudge you that, in fact I very much appreciate you telling me that as it helps me to form my own opinion later on. Oh, I can also certainly see the fact that practically every part of the plot in book 4 has already been predicted. Just taking a look at alagaesia.com made me think that I might as well not read the book, just their spoiler section…
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 16:53 said:

I’m not too thrilled with the promises of the fourth book either. I bet a lot of it will be filler, and (somehow) everything is resolved in the last one hundred pages. I do agree some points you’ve made MegaB, I don’t think Paolini intentionally left plotholes for the reader to decipher for himself. His main readers are young teenagers, and they won’t form many complex thoughts on the characters. I think the plotholes just snowballed, and instead of fixing them he let them sit for a while. I don’t condemn him for it though, I might have done the same in his position.
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 16:59 said:

Respect flows from the author. Being published does not automatically grant you respect. You have to earn it. If you can give your readers something magical, if you respect them enough to give them something that makes them sit up and take notice, then you will earn their respect. But remember, respect can be lost. If you lose the respect of your readers, you have to win it back. But you must still respect the readers.

Stretching your trilogy to four books to increase sales is not respectful; dropping a deus ex machina resolution into the middle of book two, fundamentally altering the structure of the story as it has been relayed up to that point is not respectful.

As for plotholes. I think you misunderstand what a plothole is. It’s not a way to advance your story, it is a MISTAKE that you either live with or rectify. Fixing plotholes in later books does not make you a good writer. Not having any plotholes in the first place makes you a good writer.

The only way you can fill a plothole is by creating “cheats”, changing the laws you have previously laid down, or inventing something new. All this makes your book poor and will infuriate the reader who will constantly be confused as to how people got out of the situations they were in.

Even if you fill every plothole with ever more confusing solutions, your book will still be POOR. Also, if you spend all your time filling plotholes, you are not advancing the story, just retreading old ground.

Last point: Paolini moved the goal posts. You say to give him the benefit of the doubt to fix the plotholes in the time he specified. He specified a trilogy, not a cycle. He’s making it up as he goes along.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 17:21 said:

Interesting way to put it no doubt. I do understand that inevitably he should never have made those mistakes in the first place. That is certainly true, but the nature of all stories in the genre of magic and adventure all suffer from that aspect. There’s simply no way of introducing magic into a story and expecting to explain and use every bit of it so that the reader will understand. Since it is something that is abstract and “alien” in modern day society. I suppose that is why so many novels that are published in that genre are popular, as there is a certain allure and excitement to the unknown, quite a bit like a sci-fi in that respect.

What I’m saying here is that, yes plotholes are plotholes, but in this genre with magic and the like, we shouldn’t treat them as traditional plotholes. The writer would not have the time nor the scope to introduce a whole system to something so unique for the benefit of the readers.

And I agree with you about extending the trilogy. I have already commented earlier that that was a severe lack of foresight on Paolini’s perspective, however I feel that he has given us enough content to make many people interested in finding out how he will round out the series.
It’s a bit like the final Harry Potter book. A good many readers here in the UK gave up after the 5th installment due to various reasons yet they read Deathly Hallows to find out if Rowling managed to salvage anything. In fact some readers, after reading DH, went back and read the ones they missed as they felt that the build up to the finale was worth reading due to HP7. So maybe try the last one and see how it goes from there?
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 17:27 said:

Magic does have a lot of plotholes, and even HP has problems. Anyway, my comment seems small compared to your gargantuan opinions.
Carbon Copy on 19 October 2008, 17:37 said:

MegaB, if only all fans were as forgiving as you. If they were, I think a lot more books would get published. You are clearly a very generous reader, and are prepared to give authors plenty of chances.

“The writer would not have the time nor the scope to introduce a whole system to something so unique for the benefit of the readers.”

Yikes! Seriously, this statement is an utter falsehood. Please don’t think this, especially if you are a budding author yourself. Tolkien developed a fully functioning language for his elves, and many writers have written fully developed and beautifully imagined magic systems. Paolini’s problem was he took a little of column A and a little of column B, and didn’t think through the consequences.

Worldbuilding takes time. If you aren’t prepared to put in the work, don’t write fantasy or sci-fi. If you are going to write a book about magic, then you should develop that magic system with great care.

Another thing to consider is that the more you tell the reader, the more plotholes you will create (if you haven’t thought it through carefully). If your characters can use magic, giving a 50 page description of where the magic comes from is not only boring, but also asking for trouble. If it isn’t all that important where magic comes from, why say anything at all? Does the reader really need to understand where the fireball came from to enjoy the scene where the bad guy gets burned to a crisp with said fireball?

All plotholes, regardless of genre, can be resolved if you spend the time doing your homework before you start writing.
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 17:47 said:

Yes, I think if you have something as complicated as Paolini’s magic (names, language, grey folk, sorcery, shades) you need to spend time working it out. Although part of the blame is Random House, they want their money as quick as possible. I don’t think he went in depth enough, and at the same time I wished he kept things simple.

World building takes a while. I spend most of today writing a history to the world I’m doing in November, and most of the week drawing / planning a continent. And I’m still working on the map and history, I just get bored.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 18:04 said:

yes, i agree with the fact that world building takes time and a lot of effort. it took tolkien more than a decade to write just the lord of the rings. granted, it’s a very long book, but still, how long are the inheritance books put together?

also, tolkien created more than one elvish language i think. he might have gone more in detail on one specific type, but i think he also created others, plus a dwarf alphabet, etc.

frankly, i’m of the opinion that if you don’t know anything about languages, DON’T construct one for your fantasy world. tolkien was a linguist, he knew what he was doing. he knew the grammatical structures and nuances that were involved. CP doesn’t.

i think someone commented here how his languages have the exact same structure as english?

in the end, it just feels forced. moral of the story: take your time. stick with your strengths.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 18:10 said:

i take tolkien as my example because cp obviously ripped off most of his inheritance cultures from him.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 18:12 said:

Excellent! Simply excellent! That allowed me to understand things much greater, thank you very much Carbon and Virgil.

Indeed, after having thought about it I see that the point you make is very relavent to Paolini’s work. I suppose I was contradicting myself from earlier, saying that it is better to give the author the benefit of the doubt but then saying that we need a massive description of the hows and whys. I understand that a certain balance is required to cause magic, or any unique plotpoint, to be introduced and used correctly. What you have said was certainly correct; Tolkein didn’t give us anything to go on, he just gave hints all over but never really explained them. He did however publish a seperate treatise on his unique language I seem to remember reading bits of it.

Having said that, Paolini’s original world was convincing in Eragon! I remember when I opened it for the first time and saw his hand drawn map thinking, ‘how is he going to make this work?!’ Yet by the end I was thoroughly satisfied. I remember the slight shiver of excitement that went up my spine as Durza was stabbed. I also remember having a similar experience in the battle of the Burning Plains. It had the feel of an ‘epic’ battle and I suppose that is why I am quick to defend some of the other points and give more concessions than may be rightfully due.

I don’t know whether it is just my intuition, however, Eragon and Eldest struck me as being “just right” for its genre. I just can’t seem to put it into words. I have read many different novels that attempt the same thing but I thought that Eragon and Eldest had an overwhelming balance that other writers just couldn’t find. Paolini didn’t focus more on any of the points whether it was magic, fighting, charachter development or anything else.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 18:20 said:

well, he certainly didn’t focus much on character development…i’ve always said that the inheritance books were enjoyable (actually, i revise that statement. eragon was enjoyable. i couldn’t stand eldest).

but on closer reading, you realize that most of the characters if not all are cardboard cutouts.

if paolini had only made his characters more realistic, i would still have problems with his books (no originality, purple prose, etc), but there wouldn’t be as many as i have now.

but still, i can’t deny that i liked eragon a lot…(mostly because of murtagh).
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 18:32 said:

Actually, if the characters had life to them and he got rid of all the purple prose, the lack of originality would be tolerable. But of course, if the characters had life and Paolini paid attention to them, the story would be somewhere different.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 18:34 said:

yes, which was exactly my point.

if you gave characters their own life and voice, it would be much harder to stick to such a formulaic plot, right?
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 18:35 said:

Unless you know your characters enough, and you’re confident and can write an outline, basing their actions and reactions on it.
SlyShy on 19 October 2008, 18:37 said:

MegaB,

Everything you say just indicates to me that you need to read more books. If Inheritance were the only book ever written, it would be an absolute masterpiece. But guess what? There are so many other books that you simply can’t comparatively assign Inheritance any merit. You described that thrill of excitement that went up your spine, but you could have had thirty such chills without so much filler and excrement from some other book. Read the Three Musketeers, for example, absolutely riveting. Build up your basis of comparison, read something outside of the Young Adult Paperback genre, and come back to tell us what you’ve learned.
Snow White Queen on 19 October 2008, 18:42 said:

actually, i think there are several great young adult books out there.

it’s just that you have to dig a little more to find them. i especially enjoyed books like speak, the book thief, i am the messenger, etc.
Legion on 19 October 2008, 18:45 said:

Harry Potter…
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 18:48 said:

A Song of Ice and Fire, which I’ve recently started, and is very good, I’m only in 200 pages and I love Martin’s style and characterization.
MegaB on 19 October 2008, 18:49 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. I definitely have not branched out lately although I did read a great many of the classics 5-6 years back. Trouble is, I can’t really remember them…I mean REALLY remember them. I remember what they were about and how they ended but anything other than that I’ve just forgotten.

I guess everything I said was based on the firm foundations I had (/have?) during my college days.

By the way, I absolutely loved the cartoon of the three musketeers…ahh that is really nostalgic….
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 22:01 said:

You should go back, then, and reassert your view of what ‘good’ literature is.
Rhaego on 19 October 2008, 22:47 said:

I think there are a few books out there in the YA section.

I liked City of Bones and City of Ashes by Cassandra Clare. (aka. Holly Black)

I also found The Pendragon Series by D.J. MacHale to be good.

I liked Gifts by Ursula K. LeGuin as well.

The greatest however, in my opinion, is The Warrior Heir, The Wizard Heir, and The Dragon Heir by Cinda Williams Chima.

That’s all that really comes to mind right now though…
Virgil on 19 October 2008, 22:49 said:

I hope to start A Wizard of Earthsea by LeGuin soon, but AGOT has the stage right now.
Addie on 20 October 2008, 01:06 said:

SlyShy and whoever else is involved with this site,

I first read Brisingr a couple of days after it came out. I sped through it in an afternoon (the way I always read a new book), then read it again the following day. For the next week or so I wondered whether it was a good book. Curiosity led me to look for reviews on the web, which is how I found this site. For the past – how many weeks is it now? – I’ve been trawling this site and thinking about all you lot have been saying.
I guess I know what SlyShy thinks by now (and the Epistler is even more vehement). You don’t think it very good. I’ve read a lot of conflicting reviews by now; some love it, some hate it. I think this must partly be just a matter of taste, and taste, you know, is unaccountable: I love key lime pie, my sister hates it, and that’s that. But there are some solid facts that speak about the Inheritance books, and for those not yet tired of this line of inquiry, I’ve listed a few of them here:

> The basic plot of the cycle, and especially of Eragon, is very similar to that of Star Wars, albeit with minor changes. Now, Lucas himself has said that Star Wars was at its core a collection of distilled archetypes. Whether quite obviously imitating his use of said archetypes approaches plagiarism, I don’t know; they by definition recur in literature. But in any case, it is certain that the basic plot of Inheritance is in no way original.
>The basic setting of the cycle is very similar to Middle-earth: dwarves, humans, immortal elves, monsters (Urgals/orcs), etc. Again there are minor changes – no hobbits, for instance – but the setting definitely has recognizable elements.
>Paolini is verbose. There are many lengthy scenes and descriptions.
>Paolini’s vocabulary is quite sophisticated; he uses lots of SAT “money words,” or whatever you prefer to call them. He does so accurately, as far as I can tell; gracefully is another issue.
>There is some attempt at the archaic styles generally associated with Tolkein and Shakespeare: “Come, O thou eater of man’s flesh, let us end this fight of ours!”, etc.
>There are many moral and political scenarios and debates: for example, Oromis’s take on religion and Eragon’s subsequent thoughts; Eragon’s thoughts on vegetarianism; Eragon’s dilemma over Sloan and killing in general; Eragon’s thoughts and conclusion on why he must fight the Empire; Eragon’s dilemma about how to act rightly by Arya; Eragon’s debate about accepting the Urgals.
>Eldest takes Tolkein’s view of the orcs (Urgals) and flips it on its ear.
>Paolini’s characters all talk in a similar style when he is not attempting dialect, but they are nevertheless distinguishable. Nasuada is cool, steely, determined, but upright; Angela is cheery and unconventional; Roran is passionate, determined and slightly deranged; Arya is quiet and introverted; Brom is scruffy, wise, and irritable; etc. You get the idea. Some of this characterization is direct, some indirect.

These are all the facts I can think of right now. I’m aware that people have already mentioned many of them, but I had an itch to lay them out like this.
Now, for my personal take on the books: I view them with calm indifference bordering on mild liking. They are, I think, mildly interesting. I would not be too badly disappointed if the story completely crashed in book four (which it hasn’t yet, I don’t think; it’s gone on largely as it began, albeit with more detail in the writing). There are some characters whom I actually do like very much – Nasuada, Elva – but the tale overall does not have a very strong hold over me. I wish Eragon well but don’t care very much about him as an individual.
The books, I think, have some flaws and some merits. On the whole I think they are borderline good, but not the stuff of the classics – not the sort that lights a fire in your heart, if you know what I mean. I do think that one of their worst flaws is Paolini’s writing – I mean the actual way he puts words and sentences down on a page. He is very verbose, and he doesn’t seem to have any sense of the pithy or poetic. One of the best-potential failed lines in Eldest is “The poisin dart hidden in the raisin tart” (Angela). Why ‘hidden’?! If it weren’t for that I would really have liked the line. And the poetry throughout the books is similarly bungled: it has a bit of potential, but – but – Oh, by the way, I agree with the critique of Eragon’s Durza poem.
Lastly – and I’m sorry this comment turned out so long, but remember, this is a few weeks’ worth of thoughts finally finding expression – lastly, as I say, I would just like to take this opportunity to say how impressed I am with this site overall. The discussions are remarkably thoughtful and insightful, and almost always very polite (someone will occasionally post something rather flippant, but in general the comments are very respectful). I am very impressed indeed.
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 06:51 said:

I have to say Addie, you touched upon a great many things that haven’t yet been discussed. I think something which we have all overlooked so far is the charachter development. Hardly anyone has commented on it in depth and I think that we should give Paolini his due in that department.

As you have so eloquently pointed out, the charachters themselves (at least the important ones) are all varied and stand out from one another. They all have their moments and that is a small success on Paolini’s account. How effective they are….well that is another matter altogether. I do say that I agree with you on the charachter of Eragon though. As the male protagonist, he should have been much more interesting than what he has been made to be. While I can understand the emotions Paolini has attempted to portray, I simply cannot believe that someone of Eragon’s stature and experience will be so weak-minded and indecisive.

Indeed, the sub-charachters are what is really pulling the story along. Hopefully this will be rectified in book 4 as even Eragon himself has had his moments. Paolini just needs to extend that to the whole book as he is a main charachter!

@ Rhaego: You might want to check out the Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey. I’m reading it right now and so far it’s quite interesting.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 08:46 said:

@Addie and MegaB: While the secondary characters are somewhat interesting, they are all archetypes or flat. We barely see any of Nasuada’s or Angela’s realistic personalities. Elva is slightly more interesting, but it was ruined in Brisingr, when she agreed to keep working as a Seer, or whatever you want to call it. Roran might be the most developed of all, but still not terribly interesting. Oromis and Glaedr died, but when they did, it had a feeling as if they fulfilled the roles they posed for the book, which I’m sure was not the emotion Paolini was shooting for. Sadly, these characters are what drive the story.
Morvius on 20 October 2008, 09:18 said:

The problem is that the moral dilemmas are just placed in there for no reason. It does not seem to effect the characters in any way whatsoever. It is as though he puts it in out of neccessity.

Like how Eragon loathes to absorb the life force of plants and yet the does it two times within the first few chapters. Ironically, he leeches the life out of a plant after seeing a bee which was so vibrant and full of life. (Then in Eragon, the infamous example of him killing a crow after contemplating on how fragile life is)

The characters so far…almost all of them seem so perfect. They are like representations of the perfect attributes of each kind. Granted that is why they stand out from one another…but not in a good way.

Oromis and Glaedr dying was not surprising at all considering that he is the Yoda-like character of this series.

Anyway, I was wondering…other than Galbatorix’s bloody rise to power, what was the evil deeds he committed that brought about the Varden to oppose him? All I know is that he raised taxes.
clancy on 20 October 2008, 09:32 said:

Yes, I am very very upset at the fact there will be a book four! I was excited to find out out book 3 would be released and put an end to a trilogy I very much enjoyed. Now we have to wait years to end this “cycle”. I am bitter and can’t help but think of certain greed related factors coming into play. I am sure the other 2 books will be made into sequels (first movie was horrible).
It was bad enough having to wait years going from Edlest to Brisingr. I for one find this a slap in the face and consider myself a fan no longer. He simply takes to long to write and publish anything! Brisingr was full of flying back and forth, mountains, unentertaining dwarves and Eragon STILL getting fatigued after lifting a pebble
P.S. 3rd rider will be Rorans child (book 5,6 ,7) Way to milk the cash cow
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 09:59 said:

@clancy

oh that IS another possibility, isn’t it? i was always convinced that it would be arya but this makes a lot of sense too…
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 12:16 said:

Ahh no I don’t think that is a viable possibilty. At the rate Paolini is going, Roran and Katrina’s child would not be old enough to walk, let alone fight when the final push begins.
If their child is to be a rider, it will most probably involve a plot after Galbatorix has fallen, hence, I can see why clancy has said 5,6 and 7.

Having said that, the 3rd rider is most definitely one of the charachters previously discussed. There’s just not enough evidence or logic to suggest that the 3rd rider is Roran’s child. Maybe the 4th or 5th rider, but definitely not the 3rd.
Addie on 20 October 2008, 14:19 said:

More on characters and moral/political dilemmas:

Virgil, you noted that although the secondary characters are somewhat interesting, they are all archetypes or flat and we don’t get to see their realistic personalities. Here I cannot quite agree with you, so I thought I’d address the issue. By “seeing a character’s realistic personality” I assume you mean that we can see, through their actions, thoughts, and words, what drives them, what their disposition and natural tendencies are, what and whom they love, what and whom they fear, what is important to them, where their loyalty lies, how they would like to be remembered, etc. Now, I can see all of this for Nasuada. She is first introduced in Eragon as a blithe, bright young woman, seemingly with little on her mind (as she appears in the dragonhold), but already very smart, determined, and expertly, quietly useful to the Varden (Jormunder comments that she often manipulates her father’s enemies without his knowledge, for example). In Eldest the happy carelessness of her disposition is toned way down by her father’s death and by her ensuing responsibilities. She becomes somewhat sadder and wiser, and her innate strength and determination comes to the fore, transforming her into a powerful, careful, steely and efficient but still true and upright young leader. “Nasuada has steel in her,” as Saphira notes. She well understands the perils and loopholes of politics; for instance, she carefully rearranges her position with the Council of Elders and King Orrin so that she will truly be the leader of the Varden, and not a mere puppet. She understands the diplomacy necessary to deal with the people as a whole; in Brisingr Eragon notes that although she says nothing but the truth, she tells only the better parts of it, and in such a way that the crucial morale of her forces remains high. She is an innovative, decisive leader, daring to do things that no one else, not even her father, has done: moving the Varden to Surda and to open combat with Galbatorix; using magic-spun lace to fund the Varden’s efforts; going through the Trial of the Long Knives. She is completely committed to the Varden her people, and willing to take any personal injury to ensure they prevail. She is determined to bring down Galbatorix. She is very open-minded and impartial; for instance, she willingly accepts the Urgals’ help, even though they are hugely unpopular and even though Urgals killed her father. And as for her fears: she is afraid – determined, decided, as she is – she has a lurking fear that perhaps she was wrong to take such daring steps, perhaps she will fail. Failure is, I think, her greatest fear. And lastly, she cherishes a very tender memory of her father, Ajihad, and longs to live up to his memory and to his hopes for her.

Now, this all seems quite realistic to me. (And am I the only one, or does Nasuada sort of remind you of Hermione?) I actually think Nasuada is an expertly drawn character, I think Paolini did a very good job here. Eragon, now – Eragon is a little harder to characterize. I see Eragon as a sort of blank slate, free to be shaped by his experiences. His initial basic characteristics are as follows: he is young, curious, unwise and impetuous, “full of love,” with a naturally focused and narrow viewpoint (as evinced, among other things, by his first fairth and his initial stubbornness regarding the Urgals). As we follow him throughout the books, he faces countless dilemmas and trials that cause him to think and reflect far more than he did in his childhood and more than he even wants to do now. Has anyone noticed that most of the moral and political issues in the books are discussed through Eragon? There’s a reason why. He’s the perfect test case, a blank page just waiting to be graven with “studies.” Through Eragon and his interactions with other characters, Paolini brings up vegetarianism, religion, killing in general, the atrocities of and reasons for war, love and respect, caution in dangerous circumstances, … the list goes on. Now, Paolini is not the only author to use their main character like this (for instance, take a look at A Ring of Endless Light). Many authors bring up such issues through their leads. The difference is, some do it more gracefully and naturally than others. In some cases, the characters drive the issues; in others, the issues drive the characters. Eragon, unfortunately, is I think of the latter type. The quick succession of issues he is faced with does not feel natural, even allowing for his position in the turbulent political times. It feels – I hate to say this, but is almost feels like Paolini knows he has an audience. (Of course that’s only my opinion though; I can’t prove it). I do feel bound to say, however, that I thought the fairth of Arya and its consequences were rather well done. It did seem powerful and passionate; Eragon’s turmoil of emotion, I thought, was spot on.

Lastly, I must make a comment on Angela. In this case, Virgil, I think you’re absolutely right. I cannot fathom Angela; I don’t know what makes her tick. But then, we aren’t supposed to. Angela is meant to be an enigma to everyone, both characters and readers. On the surface, of course, she’s bright and cheery, etc., but she is explained no further than that, though Paolini has dropped certain snippets: she is very old, she knows the ancient language, she has visited Ellesmera, she is “an extraordinary person” according to Oromis, etc. We’ll probably find out in book four. But I must say, in passing – although this is a different issue – that I find much of Angela’s “witty” dialogue rather forced. Her humor often falls rather flat with me; even though I can see what Paolini was trying to do, it doesn’t quite work. In fact, I can’t think of a single instance of humor in these books that is genuinely, spontaneously funny. Humor and poetry are evidently not Paolini’s forte.
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 14:22 said:

I honestly don’t believe Paolini has even developed characters in any kind of meaningful way. Yes they all have their own name, and their own appearance, and yet they are completely interchangeable.

When the plot requires characters to be dumb, they will be dumb; when the plot requires characters to be smart, they will be smart; when they are required to be sickened by bloodshed, they will be sickened; and when they are required to kill hundreds of people without caring, they go on the rampage.

None of the characters have distinctive voices either. When a character wants to sound grand he will suddenly crack out Ye Olde English, and when he needs to sound surprised or alarmed he might as well cry out, “Dude!” All the characters do this. There is no consistency in the tone at all.

There is a little game you can play with your own work to see how good you are at creating characters with their own voices. Take a meaningful piece of dialogue (a couple of sentences) and remove all the description around it, including dialogue tags like “he said”. If you can read that piece of dialogue, and it is still instantly recognisable as the dialogue of one of your characters, then that character has his/her own voice.

Please note, I don’t mean every character should have a different dialect. I don’t think it’s a good idea to have pages of dialogue with characters saying things like, “Well yar a’course ‘e be up’n t’ tower we ‘is lady wife fur sure”.

What I mean is that you should think carefully about how your characters talk. Do they use long sentences or short sentences? Do they try to sound more important than they really are? Do they stutter and use the wrong words? Does the character talk in metaphors (remember, not all characters would see something the same way; what is beautiful to one person, could be terrible to another)? Does your character even understand what a metaphor is?

If your character uses short sentences, then he shouldn’t suddenly give a 10-page monologue in which he uses lots of purple prose and grand phrases.

This extends to poetry (if you really feel the need to put poetry in your book). The poetry of one character should not sound like the poetry of another character. In Eragon, all the poetry is much the same.

If you are a good author, when you play the dialogue game, people should at least be able to determine the TYPE of person (serf, squire, lord, lady) from what they say and how they say it, even if they can’t figure out exactly which character is speaking.

If you are a great author, the character leaps out of the page in every word, and there is no mistake who is speaking at any time.

Look through Paolini’s books. The characters are all pretty much the same, they talk the same way, and think the same way. Even Saphira sounds just like the human characters. Read some of Saphira’s dialogue and consider if you didn’t know she was a dragon. What clues are there in how she speaks?
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 15:08 said:

Actually, Carbon, I would have to disagree with you on that point. Some of the charachters do stand out quite vividly from the rest. You mentioned Saphira’s dialogue in particular; that is, in fact, one of the charachters Paolini has made distinguishable using his ‘dash-ridden phrase’. A simple example of this is:

“Then Nasuada bade her farewell and retreated from the stone slab, whereupon Blödhgarm and the other elves rushed to Saphira’s side and strapped her uncomfortable-leather-patch-Eragon-seat-saddle onto her and filled the saddlebags with the food and equipment she would normally carry if embarking upon a trip with Eragon.”

So yes, Saphira’s dialogue was definitely distinguishable from the rest. As for the other charachters…well there is definitely some difference that allows the reader to identify dwarves from elves etc. Most of the time you can pick out Arya or Orik from the rest and also Solembum, surprisingly his speech is very distinguishable.

So there you go. I agree that Eragon himself however, is not a very distinguishable charachter and as Addie helpfully pointed out, this is because Paolini has tried so hard to make him distinguishable by giving him traits from all the different races. This conglomeration simply didn’t work in my opinion and that is why I say that the support charachters are pulling a greater weight of the plot than Eragon himself is. I just feel that after all his experiences, he should be far more firm and unique than Paolini has portrayed him in Brisingr. Mind you, this is only a problem in Brisingr, not in the previous books. His wavering resolve can be blamed on his lack of experience, in fact it is likely that Paolini can’t find the balance now after sticking so hard to an indecisive charachter for so long.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 15:29 said:

@Addie: I’ll agree with you on Nasuada, she’s the most realistic person, and maybe even Angela. But what about everyone else? You’ve only named two characters out of the hundreds. Jorumundur? Loyal fighter, and wise general. The Council? Evil people, who want to control the Varden. Arya? The love interest, simply there to give Eragon pleasure. We can already tell they’ll live happily, so this meandering about with her denying it is really just Eragon being childish. Even Saphira slipped up when she saw Glaedr, but she got over it okay, but Eragon still acts like a little puffed up popinjay. Galbatorix? The most evil of all, but for what? He staged a rebellion? Plenty of people do the same, and are praised as heroes. The Varden? The insta-good guys, who have nothing wrong. As the Epistler noted, if you looked at it objectively, the Varden would look like terrorist groups. A rebellion, and believing they are self righteous, but still engaging in terrorist activities. Why is the Empire evil? Because it collects taxes, or its tax collectors are ruthless? The tax collectors are doing their job, and should be praised for it. While at first, the Empire was allying with the Urgals, and then, maybe, but now the Urgals are on the good side, what makes the Empire evil? They killed a messenger on the Burning Plains, boo hoo.

@MegaB: Although not dialogue, I see your point. Except these points of view of a dragon only appear a few times in Brisingr, and even then they were lifeless, and with exception to the strung up words, they sounded exactly the same. Also, if you read just that passage, she could easily be a horse.
clancy on 20 October 2008, 16:20 said:

So many pages about a blacksmith yet a Rider and Dragon fall in less than 2 pages of dialogue? Sorry I will not be reading the 4th book in this trilogy. It will be nothing but whiney fluff from Eragon and then killing Galbatorix in the last 20 pages or so. Don’t expect to see this book until 2010 or maybe even later.
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 16:25 said:

MegaB, you said Saphira’s dialogue is unique and then quoted something that wasn’t dialogue.

Please be aware that going over the top with your punctuation doesn’t give someone a unique voice, it just makes your book harder to read. This is attempting to employ a gimmick instead of crafting decent characters in the first place. There is still nothing in this paragraph that makes me think it’s from Saphira’s point of view.

All of the characters are definitely inconsistent with their tone. They talk how the story dictates they should talk. In the dramatic moments they talk more dramatically, in the quiet moments, they talk in a very different way.

You obviously appreciate these books, and we are never going to agree on their merits (or lack of). In my posts I’m simply trying to give advice the best way I can. I hope at least some people can take something useful from my long-winded rambles.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 16:33 said:

So, I’m thinking, with all this great discussion doing on, maybe people would like to write an article describing their position. This way you have all the space you need to fully flesh-out your argument.

As for characters, I think there are a few that CP has made into full characters. This would be Nasuada and basically no one else. Realize, good authors make good characters out of just about everyone, like even secondary characters have personalities besides being the butcher in good books.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 16:40 said:

Sadly, I don’t think he even did Nasuada on purpose. We just see more of her throughout the books, and the story forces her to change. It’s like his stupid quote: “Characters are born out of necessity.“ Anyone who employs this frame of mind won’t have stunning plot twists, or realistic characters. If the story needs the characters, why would they do anything otherwise? They exist simply to move the plot along, and thus, are flat and emotionless. If a character is unique enough to change the story by his actions, then it surprises the writer, and most definitely the reader.
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 16:46 said:

@ Carbon and Virgil: Aha you see it is dialogue…..just it’s inner-dialogue! It’s a thought process is it not?
Ans as for the way she speaks, well doesn’t she always say ‘little one’ and ‘fleshbag’?

Indeed, you are very right when you say that technique is ‘over the top with your punctuation’ but it does still stand out from the rest of the charachters does it not.

And just to reassure you. I value your opinion quite highly. You have made some very good points and have convinced me a number of times as to your view of things, so although we don’t agree on everything, I do take from your ‘long-winded rambles’ to be sure!

@ SlyShy: We are almost at 300 comments, so I have to say that I agree :P
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 16:50 said:

Sorry MegaB, dialogue is verbal communication between multiple personalities. If someone is talking to themselves, then you can call it an internal monologue, but that isn’t what you have quoted either.

What you have quoted is just a description from a specific character’s point of view.
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 16:53 said:

Sorry, just to qualify, dialogue doesn’t necessarily have to be verbal. I thought I should add that when Eragon and Saphira discuss things without speaking, this is dialogue too.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 16:55 said:

Mega, I understood what you meant by dialogue, but still, I don’t think it gives us much for Saphira’s character. The describing-objects-like-this-using-their-functions is something that all dragons must do, because Glaedr does it as well, when describing the final battle. Also, ‘little one’ and ‘fleshbag’, eh.. maybe, but it seems like a thin film of quirkiness rather than emotion.

Also, fleshbag reminded me of the assassin droid in Knights of the Old Republic, who kept saying ‘meatbag’ to describe humans.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 16:57 said:

Actually, that’s funny that everyone mistaken it for not being dialog. Saphira’s “voice” is one of narration, in fact, it’s almost indistinguishable from the narrative voice besides the punctuation.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 17:01 said:

Is it spelled dialogue or dialog?
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 17:07 said:

Depends where you live. I’m a Brit.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 17:10 said:

I’ve always done it dialogue, dialog looks strange. But whatever.
Elizabeth on 20 October 2008, 17:14 said:

Quite apart from whether the bit of text that’s written from Saphira’s point of view qualifies as dialogue or not, can I just point out that this narrative style isn’t even introduced until the third book? By that point, one would hope that all the major fundamental attributes that might distinguish Saphira should already have been put to use ages ago. Personally I enjoyed the chapters from her point of view, but they were added far too late in the game to really be useful for Saphira’s character. I feel like, if this were really important, we should have seen some of it way back in book one.
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 17:21 said:

Great point there Elizabeth. Yes, it was introduced very late, but it was a nice change!

@ Virgil: Reminds of HK78? Revan’s droid right? Yeah, I agree and the parallel is actually hilarious! Saphira, the bloodthirsty dragon lands on the outcrop above the Urgal contingent. She ROARS! The ground shakes….and then she pulls out 2 laser blasters and guns them down where they stand.

I don’t even know where that came from, just it made me crack up after reading your comment.
Elizabeth on 20 October 2008, 17:32 said:

MegaB, it was indeed a nice change. It was one of the rare times where Paolini made me laugh for the reason he wanted his reader to be laughing. I just wish he had thought of it earlier — it would have been something he could build on, to show us Saphira’s fierce hunter mentality and alien, barely-compatible-with-human ways of thinking. Unfortunately, with the scene thrown in so late, I felt like it just fizzled as a semi-interesting anecdote among a host of filler.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 17:36 said:

It was HK-47, and he had a distinctive personality, very funny. Probably Paolini heard about all the arguments against Saphira, and decided to put that segment in. It didn’t change much, really.
Addie on 20 October 2008, 17:40 said:

Virgil: You spoke of hundreds of characters. Most of them, you know, are simple walk-ons: soldiers, Carvahall villagers, Eragon’s escorts, etc. – people it is neither necessary nor enriching to characterize. Only noteworthy characters are given personalities. But you’re sort of right, I think: many of them are not well done. Each of them has at least a couple of traits: Jormundur has loyalty and wisdom; Arya, reserve and conviction and beauty; Roran, passion and determination; etc. You get the idea. I do have to say, though, that even though Paolini tells us the traits of each character, it doesn’t quite seem – I mean, he tells us the construction of all the important characters, often using direct characterization, but that doesn’t make them BREATHE. He usually has them act according to their personality when they aren’t doing standard, non-character relevant things, but somehow it doesn’t seem natural. They don’t seem like they’re alive. They’re not entirely wooden puppets either, and Nasuada (you can guess I think her the best character) definitely isn’t, but their actions often feel rather flat and forced. I guess this is a rather subtle distinction and I don’t know how it’s done, or how to describe it any better – but that’s basically what I think.

As for the politics of the Varden’s war, and whether it’s right or not, you have a point. I don’t know. I’ll have a think and get back to you.

SlyShy: How do you post articles? (I’m kind of a computer novice – or maybe you describe that someplace and I missed it …)
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 17:45 said:

Go to the about page and email Sly.

Anyway, I misspoke when I said ‘hundreds’ of characters, and you’re right about them, and I agree with you on your views.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 17:50 said:

noteworthy characters are given personalities

Not true. But that is an issue for another time. Well, maybe I’ll touch on it briefly. An observant person notices that no two people are the same, you won’t meet two waitresses that catch your eye in quite the same way. The author’s high minded goal should be to mirror life in fiction, in other words, transplant the richness of living to paper where we can enjoy it. So, a good author is able to convey the infinite richness of humans through his descriptions of the varied personalities his character encounters.

Christopher Paolini makes every single Urgal the same person. And he makes every imperial soldier the same person. Each and every one is an interchangeable sack of meat, ready to be cut down. Of course, not knowing that the imperial soldier has a family he loves, and a dog he really misses would be much worse on the conscience when 50,000 of him are incinerated, so these details aren’t dwelt upon.

Addie, to submit an article, follow the guidelines.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 17:54 said:

I think Paolini should have given those details, so when Eragon feels bad, we are right there with him.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 18:00 said:

Yes, but if Eragon had to deal with his cold blooded murder of essentially good people, then he wouldn’t be the perfect hero. Oh no.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 18:24 said:

Yes, they have to be mindless evil people. I hope Paolini doesn’t expect us to think Eragon’s complaining as a flaw.
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 18:56 said:

You know, it would strike me as possibly the greatest turnaround in modern day fiction if Paolini decides after reading all these comments to cause an event that would make Eragon switch sides. It would make the story much more interesting and I would love to see the Varden totally shocked because of it.

Wishful thinking, I’m sure. Oh and SlyShy, yes every Urgal seems the same, except Garzvhog. I mean you have to admit, he killed a bear with his own hands and is a fearsome warrior, a true leader of his people. He has to almost fall down into tears when expressing his life story. The irony is so strong it makes me laugh! What a contradiction! Possibly Paolini’s worst charachter ever!
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:01 said:

i know i’m jumping in on the bandwagon kind of late, but while we’re mentioning the better developed characters in inheritance, no one mentioned murtagh.

or maybe he’s not better developed, but more sympathetic. in any case, he’s miles ahead of eragon.

i think he and nasuada are the most interesting out of them all…and i kind of have a sneaking, matchmakerish desire that they end up together.

probably will not happen, but still…
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:10 said:

@megab

yeah, having eragon discover that galbatorix is actually the GOOD guy would definitely be a game changer.

on the killing people subject, it bugs me SO MUCH when characters can just kill people and not suffer any emotional consequences. i get that they’re warriors or whatever, but if you’ve never killed before and you’re not a sociopath, it has some sort of effect on you.

to be fair it’s not only in inheritance that there is this problem…it’s also present in lord of the rings, star wars (no one has any problems killing storm troopers), and beyond.

however i give paolini kudos for showing that the urgals are not just these weird monsters who are automatically bad. it’s one of the few original ideas that are in there that he hasn’t lifted off someone else. (as far as i know)

he needs more than that though, to get me reading the series again.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 19:15 said:

It’s not original… that’s just called not being racist. The idea that a race of ugly people are still people isn’t new at all. Ugly from the perspective of the Aryan master race of elves, anyways.
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:27 said:

yes that is true…in fact, the more often i see elves, the less i’m starting to like them. it seems wherever they turn up, they’re always better than all the others combined. also, urgals/orcs/whatever else are often dark, while elves are pale.

i don’t think that anyone consciously means to be racist, but that’s how it’s often read.

reading a book from the perspective of an orc would be interesting to say the least.
Lava on 20 October 2008, 19:29 said:

Thank you for your review. Not being a writer, I appreciate your critique as someone who is more literally endowed.

In anycase I would make the argument that it is the typical fantasy reader that makes the bulk of purchases, not the writers. I found the book very enjoyable.

I have no doubt that some of the mashing of short stories that you are referring to will be referenced in the final book. Perhaps it is already accomplishing what it is meant for…and that is to leave us wanting for more and throw us into discussion.

I was savouring “Brisingr” quite a bit more than the last two books. That just being because I went through them ravenously. I found “Brisingr” easy to pick up and continue reading at any point.

The fire is kind of a cool idea. I would think the sword reacting to Eragon saying the sword’s name has more to do with intervention of the craft on Eragon’s part rather than its true name. Otherwise it would respond in kind for everyone. Plus, the name is over simplied.

However, I said “kind of a cool idea”. I’m saying that because it struck me once again as being over simplified.

I can’t wait till they hack this one up in theaters. May Peter Jackson save us from anymore crimes of budget.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 19:30 said:

I’d have to disagree with the Stormtroopers. They are designed to all look exactly the same, and fearsome. If you didn’t know what a Stormtrooper was and he came busting down your door, I’m sure you’d be a little freaked out.

And yeah, Urgals being good isn’t anything new. I am glad he got rid of the ultimate evil race of monsters. Except for the Empire. What they do is absolutely despicable, and every single person within the Empire will suffer long drawn out deaths. sarcasm
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:32 said:

it’s an interesting question though…is a clone still a person?

then again, if ANYTHING came busting down my door, i’d be freaked out regardless. i’m very jumpy.
MegaB on 20 October 2008, 19:35 said:

Ahhh the disaster that is an ill-gotten stereotype……

Need I say more?

@ Lava: Most definitely! That was probably the most original plotpoint in Brisingr! I, for one, thought it was pretty cool too. Who wouldn’t? ‘Fire!’ and something lights on fire….
Oh the possibilities!
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 19:43 said:

Plotpoint? I think you’ve misunderstood the word, MegaB. Paolini himself said it was his dad who came up with the idea, so I seriously doubt he had planned on it. While I it is cool and the possibilities are endless, Paolini has a problem with the ‘cool’ factor, and it messes up his story. Just like magic, now it will be like “Well, why doesn’t he just use the fire on Brisingr?”
Elizabeth on 20 October 2008, 19:49 said:

As regards the discussion of Urgals: Out of curiosity, what were some reactions when Garzhvog described making what were basically Native American totem poles in his home village? It sounded to me like CP was making a parallel with a recognizable tribe-oriented warrior culture, and that shocked me as being just a bit too bold. I don’t think it was necessarily racist of him — I think he was raised with pretty nearly the same morals as most of us, i.e. he was spoonfed total tolerance and wouldn’t consider openly expressing a conviction of racism. (Which is possibly why he so scrupulously gave control of the Varden to a non-Caucasion, but I digress.) However, it did seem rather clumsy and naive, as if he was trying to express his non-racism by linking the two cultures, pointing, and saying “Look, I’m not racist, I appreciate that Urgals are people just like I appreciate the Native American culture.” Which came off to me as rather false and unnecessary.
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:50 said:

yes, i think there’s a problem with giving a character too much power…for example, what serious vulnerabilities does eragon have?

he used to be a semi-cripple. well that’s good for vulnerability, until all his strength and more was supplied for him at the blood oath ceremony.

he’s not very smart, but i think we all know that paolini’s not going to make that his fatal flaw.

his magic has limits, but when is that ever shown to us after eragon?

he may be hot-tempered and impulsive, but how might that cause him problems in the future? how has that caused him problems in the past?

in other words, what internal challenges does eragon have to surmount in order to reach his full potential?

i really can’t think of anything.
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 19:54 said:

Indeed, a sword that makes fire cannot be classed as a plot point. Really, it just makes the book seem more like something derived from a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

Would it have made a difference if the sword could create ice, or lightning?

Oh, by the way, anyone interested in reading books from the point of view of an orc is strongly advised to avoid the Orcs series, written by Stan Nicholls. These books are actually worse than anything Paolini has written. The funniest thing? The books are written from the point of view of orcs, but if you weren’t told they were orcs, you would just think they were human beings, as they act exactly like humans in all respects.
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 19:57 said:

i think tolkien actually mentions anduril burning with a white light or something at one point, so i suppose even the whole ‘sword on fire’ thing isn’t completely original. plus, it’s called the ‘flame of the west’.

or maybe i’m thinking of something else…
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 20:00 said:

Elizabeth,

Now that you mention it, I guess Paolini was trying to steal from World or Warcraft too, as the Orcs in Warcraft Universe are distinctly native American. The Noble Savage, Honorable Savage, etc. Oh, and they have an alliance with the humans/dwarves/good guys.
Elizabeth on 20 October 2008, 20:11 said:

Figures…he’s even less original than I was giving him credit for. Wow.
Carbon Copy on 20 October 2008, 20:12 said:

Tolkien never wrote about swords that burst into flame just to look cool.

Every sword in Tolkien’s universe had a history and a purpose. The weapons also reflected the characteristics of the people who used them, reinforcing plot and character.

The sword that severed the ring from Sauron’s hand is literally broken, because the line of men is broken and weak. Only once Aragorn accepts his fate is the sword reforged, and then the sword has power as it is wielded by a mighty king of men. The sword doesn’t just give Aragorn +2 to hit in combat with trolls.

Sting glows when orcs are close. What better tool is there for sneaking into Mordor? Even the mithril armour can be seen to represent the resiliance of the hobbits, and to show how they are much grander than their stature indicates. Of course, the tragedy is that Frodo has to face the power of the ring, and no armour can help him in that battle.

Nothing is done just to be cool
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 20:29 said:

Things can be cool, as long as they have a purpose, and make sense. If their had been accounts of objects having true names and such, it wouldn’t be such a WTF moment when it happens to Eragon.

I also want to raise a point on the title, Brisingr. While Eldest was a good title in my opinion, and was only revealed in the end, Brisingr seems like a trivial name. It gives the notion that the whole point of the book was for Eragon to get the sword, which was a waste of 800 pages.
Addie on 20 October 2008, 20:36 said:

Oh I don’t know about that, Virgil. People have been speculating that “Brisingr” is a part of Eragon’s true name, or something along those lines, in which case the title wouldn’t be so trivial. Although you’d think, wouldn’t you, that it would have been the title of the book in which that information is disclosed.

SlyShy, thanks for the link. I can’t believe I missed that the first time.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 20:39 said:

Yeah, if it was, oh boy, big thriller there. If it was, it would be a much more appropriate title for the fourth book, maybe. It all falls back that this is a filler book.
SlyShy on 20 October 2008, 20:43 said:

Everyone said it. Brisingr should have been called Empire and there shouldn’t have been a fourth book. Think how nicely things would have been.

Eragon
Eldest
Empire

They all start with e, and have six letters. If he had called the 3rd book Empire and still insisted on 4 books he still could have done:

Eragon
Eldest
Empire
Erotic

He screwed up the opportunity of a life time.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 20:46 said:

Yep. I wonder what ‘Erotic’ might have entailed. Would be very interesting to see what Paolini thinks is ‘erotic.’
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 21:35 said:

well, there’s so much innuendo anyways…but that was unintentional.

(or so we assume)
Addie on 20 October 2008, 22:14 said:

Snow White Queen: You mentioned above that you didn’t think Eragon has any internal challenges that he must surmount to reach his full potential. He has faced a couple over the course of the series: it was a struggle for him to stop pursuing Arya (though he evidently hasn’t entirely given up hope), and killing disturbs him in Brisingr. These aren’t very serious roadblocks, though; Eragon does fret about killing afterwards, but he fights very efficiently when he needs to, and as for Arya, they just need to put their relationship on hold for the rest of the war. Easy. There is nothing much standing in his way but the problem of the Eldunari and Galbatorix’s strength. So basically, I agree with you: the conflict has become merely practical, external, a matter of going here and there and doing this and that. This is one of the reasons I don’t find it an especially inspiring story.

And I have to say, the killing is one of my pet peeves about the Inheritance cycle. Obviously there are some wars which must be fought (World War II, for example), and this may be one of them (I haven’t thought that all out yet) – but the killing is becoming vastly immoderate. For instance, when Eragon and Arya were cornered by the soldiers in Brisingr, why couldn’t they have just knocked them all out the way he did with the Urgals in the first book, then disguised themselves and fled? It wasn’t necessary to kill them. I am bothered by the lack of mercy in the protagonists. “It’s not extreme when they wouldn’t show you the same mercy,” Brom says in the first book. That seems so harsh to me.
Virgil on 20 October 2008, 22:28 said:

I think the worst part of that is when Arya kills the bird in the forest, ‘saving it hours of suffering.’ Are we supposed to like Arya afterward, then believe that elves revere nature? Almost everyone in the story does what they need to when they need to, and they do it perfectly, and it’s the most annoying thing.
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2008, 23:25 said:

@addie:

yeah, i was looking mainly at internal conflicts…the whole point of any story is to see the protagonist grow as a person as they overcome obstacles, which are usually rooted internally.

what bothers me about the whole killing thing is that he seems to think ‘oh, killing. it’s so awful. why me?’ when paolini feels that the reader needs to be reassured that he doesn’t like it, and then goes right ahead and does it when the plot requires.

even if you kill out of necessity, it still affects you, doesn’t it? killing hundreds of people doesn’t seem to have done anything much to eragon’s psyche.

anyways, we basically have the same opinion.
Addie on 21 October 2008, 00:25 said:

Yes, exactly. Actions speak far louder than words, and so many of the characters’ actions say that they are perfectly fine with killing. And so many of them devote themselves to revenge! I mean, there’s that dwarf tribe cherishing a grudge against all Riders because of the death of Anhuin; Eragon devotes himself to murdering the Ra’zac after Garrow’s death; Birgit has her vendetta against Roran; Roran is after the Ra’zac too; Brom devotes his life to destroying Morzan; there are countless references to clan and family feuds; the list goes on … Now, killing in battle is necessary if the war is absolutely necessary, but revenge is NEVER necessary. What, oh, what, would Gandhi think of these books? Well, I guess we know what he’d say: “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind,” (which I think is absolutely true), or some such. All these characters’ vengeance obsessions are so exasperating.
Snow White Queen on 21 October 2008, 00:37 said:

exactly right on the ‘actions speak louder than words’. it’s exactly like in twilight, when smeyer repeatedly tries to convince us of bella’s intelligence. we just can’t accept it because of the repeated stupidity she shows in almost everything she does.

same thing with edward’s perfection.

and addie, since you’re a fellow faramir fan (hehe alliteration is fun), i’m sure you understand how one of the reasons why i like faramir is his attitudes towards killing. he does it out of necessity, but he makes it very plain that he would much rather be doing anything else.
Addie on 21 October 2008, 00:56 said:

Hey Snow White Queen,
Did you know Tolkein himself said that his favorite character, and the one he was most like himself, was Faramir? (Well, maybe you did know that actually …) Tolkein seems to have shared Faramir’s views on war, peace, justice, mercy, etc. In fact, they pervade the whole book, don’t they? For instance, Gandalf’s talk with Frodo about pity. “Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement,” he says. Somebody seriously ought to explain that to Arya.
Snow White Queen on 21 October 2008, 01:17 said:

yes, i do remember reading that somewhere…oh, yeah, now it’s coming back to me.

even tolkien’s views about conserving the environment are present in the books, what with isengard and the ents.

and gandalf and frodo’s discussion about pity and mercy is one of my all-time favorite dialogues in the book!

yeah, someone should explain that to everyone in inheritance! especially eragon… when he thinks about the fragility of life or something, and then he sees a crow and shoots it. haha, talk about hypocrisy.
Addie on 21 October 2008, 01:23 said:

Exactly.
CWB on 21 October 2008, 03:43 said:

@ SlyShy… I think “egoist” would have been much better than erotic. That or egoism. Either one really.
MegaB on 21 October 2008, 06:52 said:

Don’t you see though, Addie and SWQ? That may actually be what Paolini is aiming for. No matter how bad Paolini is at writing, he’s just not THAT bad! There’s no way he would make such an amateur’s mistake! I know 11 year olds who could spot that and tell me that has to be removed as it would cause problems later.

I think the whole point in such hypocrisy is Paolini’s little play with the world. He is trying to inform us that people say and do different things when the actions are what matters. It’s just a mistake that is so easy to avoid that I can’t find any other reason unless he literally has the mental capability of a 9 year old.
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 07:57 said:

I think you’ve giving him too much benefit of the doubt, MegaB. While if all this was followed by fairly good writing styles and a decent plotline, then maybe he might have been trying to make a point. But since we’ve essentially proven just about everything else in the book is ‘the mental capacity of a nine year old’, I don’t think he did it on purpose. The characters do what they need to for the plot. Of course, if you ask him, he would deny it and say it was what he meant to do. And why wouldn’t he? I think CP’s ego is too large for him to say anything bad about it.
Carbon Copy on 21 October 2008, 07:59 said:

MegaB, I think you are giving Paolini too much credit, inventing theories to excuse poor writing. You are so determined to believe that a published author could not possibly make a mistake, that you are throwing “get out of jail” cards all over the place. Just because someone has been published, that doesn’t mean that everything in his or her book is part of some grand plan. Sometimes, books are just bad; sometimes, authors aren’t very good.

Paolini has admitted his characters are bred out of necessity. This means they do whatever the plot requires them to do at a certain point. He is not writing deep and meaningful discussions on how what people say and what they do are rarely the same. If this was the case, then people would actually ponder that very issue, and someone might even speak to Eragon about how his violence is at odds with his desire not to kill. That issue would form a cornerstone of the story which just isn’t there.

There are two ways to write.

1. You can think of a situation, and then determine the actions a character would need to take to get into (and out of) that situation.
2. You can create well-rounded characters with real emotions, and then evolve the situations based on the decisions those characters would make, and how those decisions affect them.

Paolini clearly writes based on option 1, and it makes everything seem false and contrived.
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 08:14 said:

Option 1 is also a general symptom of fan fiction writing, and Paolini writes like a fan fiction author.
Morvius on 21 October 2008, 08:22 said:

“Only noteworthy characters are given personalities. But you’re sort of right, I think: many of them are not well done. Each of them has at least a couple of traits: Jormundur has loyalty and wisdom; Arya, reserve and conviction and beauty; Roran, passion and determination; etc.” -Addie

How do you guys highlight quotes anyway? Addie, from your description, it was like I said. CP seems to have taken the “best” and good personalities of humankind and spread it among his protagonists.
Morvius on 21 October 2008, 08:58 said:

Sorry to double post but…someone mentioned about Angela being an enigmatic character. I am reading through Brisingr currently and the guy Tenga in the tower mentions that the sculptures (or was it something else) were made by HER before SHE left. Chances are this is Angela. And if Tenga is supposedly the God Eragon meets…Angela just seems to fill the role of a enigmatic figure with more power than one could possibly imagine. (Something like Eriond in the Belgariad/Mallorean or Tom Bombadil to a lesser extent)
MegaB on 21 October 2008, 10:00 said:

@ Morvius: That definitely seems like the case now, but I think if there is one charachter Paolini should have some semi-interesting plans for in book 4, it will probably be Angela. Otherwise there would be no point in stretching the ‘mystery-factor’ for so long.

But after all we’ve discussed, I’m not even sure if it would be any good…

I have to say, some of you are pretty negative with respect to criticism. I know that in most instances it is deserved, but it wouldn’t hurt to look at Paolini’s work with an open mind. We don’t know everything that Paolini is going to throw at us in book 4, so there really is no point discussing depth of charachter until the plot has ended. One of the key things I was taught in my English Studies, was that charachterisation cannot be what it is until the charachterisation is finished, which should be at the end of book 4. Oh we can postulate now using what we have, but without having a firm knowledge of the end point, we can’t really prove anything.
Morvius on 21 October 2008, 10:06 said:

Wait, I read further on. If Angela is the apprentice of Tenga…and if Tenga is a god. It reminds me of that god in Belgariad/Mallorean who takes apprentices like Belgarath/Beldin. So Angelia reminds me of Polgara now.

Yes. Hopefully it will be revealed that Galbatorix is not just EVIL or something along those lines. The problem is that three books have passed and the character Eragon is… Oh and the scene when King Orrin was demanding answers from Eragon…that scene had so much potential! If only they could show how the Varden begins to crumble from the inside and so they will have more troubles to face other than the EVIL EMPIRE.
SlyShy on 21 October 2008, 10:28 said:

(Sorry to interrupt the conversation. ducks Morvius, highlighting text is done using bq. at the beginning of the paragraph you want hilighted.)
Carbon Copy on 21 October 2008, 10:44 said:

We’re three books in. Am I supposed to wade through four big books without understanding the characters, and then go, “Oh, NOW I understand Eragon” when I finally finish the last one?

By your theory, people in real life wouldn’t have a character until they were dead. This is nonsense.

Characters need to be engaging and consistent ALL THE WAY THROUGH, from the minute they are introduced. (And by consistent, I don’t mean they never change their opinions, I just mean that if they believe something, they should believe it until something significant happens to make them think otherwise.)

I originally approached Paolini’s work with an open mind. I could see his potential and gave him a second chance even after Eragon was poor (I read Eldest). I may even give him another chance if he writes a different series at some point. No-one is being negative for the sake of it. These books are excellent learnig aids for budding authors; you just need to recognise the faults for what they are. Faults.
MegaB on 21 October 2008, 11:44 said:

Ah yes, faults are indeed faults. If you scroll up, I was actually one of the first to post a comment in detail regarding the pros and cons. What I am saying though is, we can’t only look at the faults in the book. That is the intent behind my saying that there “could” be (emphasis on could) something up Paolini’s sleeve.

Here’s a challenge Carbon, let’s here you say something positive, anything! Just as long as it is positive, about the Inheritance series.

(Something more original than the fact that it is appealing to teen readers…)
Carbon Copy on 21 October 2008, 13:20 said:

Considering I have already said that I have given up on this series, it’s not easy for me to find things to like. After all, if I liked the books, I’d still be reading them, wouldn’t I?

However, as you insist, here are a few positive things I have said. (Please note, all of these comments are cut from previous posts on this page and other pages on this site.)

“I do not like these books, but I have already posted elsewhere on this site that I believe they have value. They have encouraged children to read, and to hold lengthy debates on the subject of literature. For these reasons alone, the books have to be applauded. I would prefer my child to read a book (even a bad one) rather than watch television, and if reading Brisingr encourages someone to go on to read better (although not necessarily bigger) books, then again, I applaud Paolini for what he has done.”

“The loyalty of Paolini’s support is incredible, and I only wish my readers were as forgiving. He is clearly doing something right. Fair play to him.”

“I have said time and time again that Paolini has the technical knowledge to craft good fiction, but as of yet he has not been able to use that technical skill in a meaningful way.”

“You see, Paolini has an excellent grasp of the English language. Technically, he is very good. Where he fails is in his ability to tell a story in an engaging manner. He glosses over emotions, provides moral dilemmas in a “rice or chips” style, and crams too many metephors and purple prose into every sentence. Lack of self-control and original ideas are the major issues.
One of the most interesting things about his work is that he writes in a very poetic style, and his descriptive prose could almost be poetry, and yet, when he comes to write a poem, the poetry is sub-standard at best.”

“Paolini, whether we like to admit it or not, has the bare basic talent at the heart of being a writer. What he lacks is humility and self-restraint. His failures become apparent when he tries too hard.”

Okay, that’s just a sample, but you get the idea. I have also defended his intellect, and the method of his education. I have even defended some of the metaphors he used in one of his awful poems.

Finding all those posts was really boring, but I’ve responded in this way because I wanted to prove that when I am negative, it is for a REASON. In my posts I am trying to give advice that I think young or new writers may find helpful. Highlighting the problems in Paolini’s work is a good way of doing this.
MegaB on 21 October 2008, 13:46 said:

Thank you! I thoroughly concede to your point at this stage.

I understand how you have attempted to help people with your advice, just sometimes it is hard to grasp concepts if everything is negative all the time. It is very difficult to grasp the ideas which are put forward unless some praise is given and I was truly feeling that a vast majority only had bad things to say, which I felt was unfair. Hence, my stance as regards the Inheritance series.

Thanks again for the advice, I’m very grateful. :D
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 16:53 said:

The majority of the negatives are counter balancing all the undeserved positives heaped on Paolini by everyone else. Here we can be vindictive and not too many people will mind.
George Link on 21 October 2008, 18:52 said:

For my own opinion i really do not agree with this criticism. First of all, i am not trying to diss everyone that thinks bad about this book, I personally believe that everyone that posted on this site will not be able to make such a good book. Even though i think you are right about the book not being “olden language” enough, we are talking about a mythical world! Who knows if they talk like us, or like the language used back then or a futer language soon to come. I know that the 2nd book might have been a “dull” but you have to admit, the book itself isn’t that bad! And who knows, the 4th book might be so good you all would want to take back your criticism.
Here are a few facts proving this book isn’t as bad as it seems:
1. The cycle of Inheritance was published by a company right away! Unlike “Anne of Green Gable which took a few..years to publish this is one of the fastes to be published!
2. Really you shouldn’t be complaining, you all could probably not make such a successful book.
3. Since i read it myself, my family, friends, grandparents and everyone i know was dieing for me to lend the book to them!

I have more comments but if you would like to know more or if you would like to argue with me, please e-mail me at:
georgelink1995@gmail.com

P.S Do not respond to my message on this review cause i do not think i will come back to it. If you would like to discuss please contact me using E-MAIL.

P.S.S SlyShy, please e-mail me, i would like to discuss about the book more.
SlyShy on 21 October 2008, 19:18 said:

Dear George Link,

Thank you for your feedback.

Now, where to begin…

If this is such an inventive world, why do they speak in English at all?

The 4th book won’t magically make the 3rd book look better in retrospect. Things don’t work that way. It might make the Cycle look better all together, but it can’t fix the flaws of previous books. And even if it is really good, the one book isn’t going to out weigh three books of filth.

Nice “facts”. You might want to try those in a high school debate. You’d get eaten up.

1. Inheritance was very quickly self published. It wasn’t until the Paolini family had been on tour for quite some time that Paolini got his lucky break. And it was a huge lucky break. The fact that they needed to self publish largely implies they were initially rejected, and would not have ever been published if it weren’t for their lucky break. So the books’ publishing says nothing of its merits.

2. This argument has been addressed somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 times. I don’t care to do so again. Sorry, it takes me a lot more work to respond logically to an illogical question. I will, however, quote my old text for you:

Anyways, it still doesn’t matter whether I’ve published a book because you don’t have to be a published author to spot flaws in writing. Just like I don’t have to be an Olympic Gold Medalist to know the guy walking on his hands isn’t doing the 50m dash correctly.

3. First off, it is ‘dying’. Second off, that’s anecdotal and unverified evidence, and none of the mentioned people have supplied convincing arguments, or are otherwise credentialed in any applicable manner. I read this book, and my friends and family also threw up when reading it. Oh gee.

P.S. Yes, I’m very deliberately ignoring your request.
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 19:24 said:

Well, I wonder if a single Inheritance fan will come up with a unique argument. It’s like they all have a chat board somewhere.. but all we get is ‘ur not gonna mak a good bok so y u dissing paolin’s?’ and such, I’m doing more important things.
Snow White Queen on 21 October 2008, 19:43 said:

and about the whole anne of green gables argument…people still read that book today even though it was published so long ago. i doubt they’ll be doing the same with inheritance.

(i happen to love anne)
Carbon Copy on 21 October 2008, 19:45 said:

I enjoy the fans. They’re fun.

I like that he makes such broad judgements about the people who have posted here, as if he knows everyone personally and has read their work.

For me, the highlights are the “futer (sic) language soon to come” (as opposed to all that future stuff that happens in the past) and the bit where he says Eldest is dull but “the book itself isn’t bad”.

There are a couple of people on this site who are capable of expressing their enjoyment of the Inheritance series in a sensible manner. I wonder if they get upset having people like this to back them up.

And why would you post something, go to the effort to give out your e-mail address, but never go back to the forum to see what was said in response? I think someone’s just a bit lonely really.
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 19:55 said:

Somebody a wittle bit wonewy..
Rhaego on 21 October 2008, 20:00 said:

When I read George Link’s response, I estimated he was around five-and-a-half years old. I thought maybe the younger and less experienced you are with good reading, the worse taste you might have. This could explain why the fans use such tired arguments; one older person said them, and all the kids followed suit.

Then, just as an experiment, I gave my 7 month old brother Eragon. Stuffed it right into his pudgy little hands.

He threw up on it after opening it.

NO JOKE
Addie on 21 October 2008, 20:09 said:

MegaB: I’ve thought a lot about your comment on the killing and its purpose in the series: “I think the whole point in such hypocrisy is Paolini’s little play with the world. He is trying to inform us that people say and do different things when the actions are what matters.” Now you know, of course, that when someone asked Paolini if he shared all the characters’ views (like on vegetarianism, for instance), he said that he actually didn’t, that it was his duty as an author to understand why people act in certain ways and to illustrate it faithfully. For this reason, I can’t be sure of Paolini’s intent regarding the moral issues surrounding killing. Perhaps he is just trying to show us, as he says, how and why people do certain things; but I don’t think any author can help their work being colored, at least partially, by their own personal view of the world, and as there are some underlying assumptions regarding ALL of the characters’ actions – like that it is sometimes necessary to kill – I have come to the conclusion that these are probably his, and he put them in unconsciously. (And I’m also pretty sure that he agrees when Oromis says “understanding breeds empathy,” just since that’s his own attitude towards his characters.) So, in conclusion – and I’m sorry if this is a little confusing – I have to give your theory a decided maybe. That MIGHT be what he’s up to. I just don’t know.

But, as it happens, I was criticizing the characters’ morals, not Paolini’s (unless he happens to share them, of course). While the author’s views are somewhat foggy, the characters’ are perfectly clear, and I really don’t like a lot of them. I mean, I am sure that all the main characters mean well, and they do have ideas about right and wrong, but I think they are often mistaken, often therefore unnecessarily harsh, sometimes undeniably guilty of hypocrisy, and – again – way too much stuck on revenge. Whatever the author’s intentions, it’s rather disheartening to watch needless harshness and, sometimes, in the characters who are lauded as so “good” – especially as many young readers aren’t aware of subtle distinctions like the irony you propose in your theory, and are taking these character’s morals as true and authorially-backed. That’s all.

And finally – of course, MegaB, it is important to remain impartial, you are perfectly right about that. We should all try our best to fairly identify both faults and merits; it’s a testament to our own honesty and vigilance as writers. Just as it happens, the excessive killing is my least favorite part of these series, and that said, I would never deny that the books do have some substantial merits.
Addie on 21 October 2008, 20:18 said:

Oh, and about George Link’s comment: Just because a book is published quickly doesn’t mean it is necessarily good. Anne of Green Gables is an classic book that has stood the test of time, and just as you pointed out, it was not immediately published. Likewise, A Wrinkle in Time was rejected, initially, by every single publisher L’Engle sent it to, and Harry Potter had a similarly difficult time.

(I love Anne, too, and also Emily.)
Virgil on 21 October 2008, 20:21 said:

I can’t wait until one of us does become published, then we can throw that argument in their face.
Snow White Queen on 21 October 2008, 20:37 said:

addie, hey that’s exactly what i said about anne of green gables!

great minds think alike
Carbon Copy on 22 October 2008, 05:59 said:

Virgil – I hate to tell you this, but it won’t make any difference. I am a published author (far from being as successful as Paolini), but posting that information isn’t going to stop people coming out with this line of argument, because:

1. I am choosing to remain anonymous.

2. Even if I wasn’t choosing to remain anonymous, no-one would believe I am published anyway. This is the Internet; I could claim to be James Herbert if I wanted.

3. Even if people did believe me, the argument would change to, “But you haven’t sold as many copies of your books.”

The way I see it, you don’t have to be a computer programmer to recognise when a game has glitches in it, you don’t have to be a director to spot continuity errors in a movie, and you don’t have to be an author to know when a book is poor.
MegaB on 22 October 2008, 07:03 said:

Very well put Carbon! I think the majority of ‘fans’ would be quick to change their arguments depending on the situation. If you can’t come up with a logical explanation with at least a little substantial evidence, there is absolutely no point in trying to persuade anyone of anything.

A good majority of the excellent authors are never even brought to the limelight! Truthfully, in the last 10 years how many authors have been publicly spoken about? Now compare that to all the authors of the books you have read and thought were good. I’m sure you would come to the same conclusion as I did. There may be a book resting at the back of a Waterstones shelf that will absolutely tear the fiction world to pieces but no-one has bought it yet!

@ Addie: Thanks for that! When you put it that way, I suppose there’s a lot more credibility as to that point. But also that might be Paolini’s plan backfiring on him. He’s tried so hard to make a “good” charachter that when the charachter is confronted with a realistic situation, the “good” and the “realistic” become a paradox. I think that this is the main reason that the personalities of the main charachters come off as confusing to most people. There’s just no way to fully categorise any of the charachters because their personalities are so ambiguous.

Having said that, it still seems a bit far-fetched to me that Paolini would do something so basic unintentionally. I will read the 4th book to find out obviously, it’s the only way I will be able to tell.
Virgil on 22 October 2008, 08:39 said:

You make a good point Carbon. Still, it’s not like we’re going over to Shurt’ugal and pestering them about it. They feel the need to come here and tell us we’re wrong.
G.R.R.Martin Fan on 22 October 2008, 14:59 said:

Vanilla flavored ice cream is more exciting, has more plot twists and goes down easier than Brisingr.
G.R.R.Martin Fan on 22 October 2008, 15:00 said:

And I’m lactose intolerant.
Virgil on 22 October 2008, 17:40 said:

Psh, everyone knows Vanilla is Eragon’s true name, thus the entrance to the Vault of Souls.
MegaB on 22 October 2008, 18:36 said:

Haha…I thought we already established that Brisingr would be part of his true name? Maybe it is melted Vanilla ice cream, that would certainly go down easier than ‘Brisingr’ (Pardon the pun).
Snow White Queen on 22 October 2008, 19:00 said:

it would be really strange if the ridiculous name he told durza was his real name actually WAS his real name.

then, durza wasn’t able to control him with that, so that’s out of the picture. it would be funny though…
Virgil on 22 October 2008, 19:33 said:

I actually wouldn’t be surprised at all if the name he gave Durza was his name. All it says was Paolini was too lazy to think of a new one.
Snow White Queen on 22 October 2008, 19:36 said:

i don’t even remember what it meant…something stupid about shadows.

de sudavor freuo or something weird like that.
Addie on 22 October 2008, 20:38 said:

Yeah, Du Sundavar Freohr, “death of the shadows.” Odd name, really…

Personally, I don’t exactly like the idea of three words, whatever language they’re in, being able to describe someone’s ENTIRE personality. I mean, people are more complex than that. It just doesn’t seem that realistic.
Virgil on 22 October 2008, 20:39 said:

Except mine, of course.

I am Ironman.
MegaB on 23 October 2008, 06:23 said:

Virgil….you are a chicken from Mighty Max…oh sorry I meant a ‘fowl’ :P
Snow White Queen on 23 October 2008, 10:01 said:

every time i hear about ironman the black sabbath song starts blasting in my head.

it doesn’t help that those people used it in the trailers for the movie…
Sadistic Slob on 24 October 2008, 20:04 said:

CP should just abandon reality entirely, why not rip off something good?…

He gets chased by murtagh to the top of some kind of tower, jumps out, lands in a space ship… “SCOTTY!.. full power to engines!…” “It’s no good capn’ I’m too fat to reach the controls!” ship gets shot down, he jumps out, and legs it.

Something to brighten up the plot.

Those very pixels exude 100% recycled story line.

I agree with those that speculate that the sword was simply put in because it’s “cool!”, or as an afterthought.

As I said before, much of his book contradicts itself, or the sake of the plot the characters suddenly have wonderful ideas/do something worthy of at least a darwin award nomination.

The characters do what the plot requires, but don’t think for themselves, even those who are/were meant to be wise (Oromis for example, died, whilst he did not put any kind of enchantment on his blade, to keep it near him, or otherwise use it to any great effect.)

I also note that the part in which Eragon cut through the door was taken from star wars as well, the phantom menace (or something like that.)

Ironically enough I have only ever seen the first star wars, and the first part of the prequel trilogy, so he could have picked anything else from any of the others and I would be non the wiser.

Of course, he might not know this himself…
spikelea on 27 October 2008, 19:23 said:

wow, u intercoursetards, this was an amazing book, and if that is what u think of it, then u deserve to die, because you obviously don’t deserve to call yourself a critic. you just have some beef with him, and you need to suck it up and settle it. he is a young writer, and it is u stupid “critics” who made eldest a crapload, because you told him to be a more “ mature writer” and he is a better writer as an “immature” writer than any of u will ever be, so go fuc urself
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 19:31 said:

i could quote my favorite tolkien lines about how a person shouldn’t decide whether another deserves death or life.

however, i don’t have the inclination to type it all out, and even if i did, i doubt you’d absorb the lesson it teaches, judging by your reactions to some perfectly legitimate opinions.

you have your views and others have theirs.

please, if insulting people over the internet with very bad spelling and grammar happens to be your particular hobby, find a better hobby.
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 19:34 said:

Yes! I was hoping for one of these… it’s been a while. Proper grammer and coherent arguments are good, but nothing compares to an Inheritance fan.

Spikelea, if you’re willing to use grammar and not use the language, we’d be glad to hear your stance on the merits of Inheritance. We’ve offered this to anyone who posts arguments like yours on this site, and so far no one has been man (or woman) enough to take us up on the offer.

And ‘fuc’, is spelled ‘fuck’.

Clearly, you have some ‘beef’ with us, so you should ‘suck it up and settle it’. We are not flaming on your forums, are we?
Addie on 27 October 2008, 19:50 said:

Good lord … (laughter)

I don’t know why I should find this so funny, but it is …

Well said, Virgil and SWQ.
SlyShy on 27 October 2008, 20:05 said:

wow, u intercoursetards, this was an amazing book, and if that is what u think of it, then u deserve to die, because you obviously don’t deserve to call yourself a critic.

Dear Spikelea,

I feel a need to point out the atrocity of your grammar. I’m sure your intention was to say I deserve to die, because I dislike the book… BUT, that’s not how you worded the sentence.

and if that is what u think of it, then u deserve to die.

Take a look at what “that” means in this sentence. To find out, we refer to your prior clause.

“this was an amazing book”

So your statement evaluates to the following:

If you think Brisingr was an amazing book (which it was), then you deserve to die.

Which I found to be a very amusing statement. However, this site does not hate Inheritance fans, nor does it wish for them to meet gruesome demises.

Thank you for taking your time to comment here. If you would like to follow up by explaining what made Brisingr a great book, I would love to hear it. Next time, please moderate your language. It’s needlessly crass. Thank you.
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 20:11 said:

XD d’oh.

should have noticed that myself…

i’m getting the feeling that this guy didn’t do so well in language arts class
spikelea on 27 October 2008, 20:18 said:

O wow, my argumtn just got totally pwnt by u giys intercourseing with my grammar. non of u guyz coud come even cose to writing a book as good as nay of the ones like that paolini has wrirtten so maybe you should just go take ur petty grammar nazi bullsnip and shov it rite up ur asses. ur all prolly just lil asn nerds siting around on ur comp laffng at good literatiure liek ur so pretentious and all that.

ill tell u what my beef is. hell, its not even a copulating beef, its so big its like fornicating BULLS meat. u guys think ur so smart becuz you write artickles for some lame ass website on the internet when ur dissing a guy whose so much more famous than u its not even funy. it’s so sad that it’s funny. u guyz obviously need to get laid.
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 20:23 said:

well, i think it’s so sad that it’s funny that you seem to have the need to insult other people over the internet while making yourself seem even less mature and intelligent in the process.

i don’t believe in laughing at good literature. i’ve read many wonderful books, and if you’d like, i’d love to recommend some that are infinitely better than inheritance. however, criticism should be delivered where it is due.

i’m glad you enjoyed the series, but that doesn’t give you any right to harass the rest of us who are trying to learn from paolini’s mistakes.
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 20:24 said:

Hm.. I had to reread everything several times, and mentally reword everything to actually get it.

I will give you credit, you did repost, unlike most people.

I’m not sure if the bolding was supposed to be yelling.. but you haven’t told us anything we haven’t heard before. And your actions here almost tempt me to go to Shurtugal.com or Alagaesia.com and start posting the Epistles.
SlyShy on 27 October 2008, 20:25 said:

Btw, SWQ, if you capitalize, your comments will look less ironic. ;)
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 20:29 said:

i was considering that myself…but i type faster this way. oh well, though. at least my writing is relatively easy to understand.

However, from now on, I will use proper capitilization, etc. etc. Just so I won’t be a hypocrite…

(Let’s see how long this lasts…)
Lord Snow on 27 October 2008, 20:35 said:

XDD That was pretty funny. It was almost like he/she was trying to destroy the English language. Read a few books, then come back, and we will gladly here what you have to say.

Oh, also, next time you try to troll a website, take your time. It isn’t a race. You can, in fact, sound competent in the process.
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 20:39 said:

@ Virgil

Are…are we allowed to do that last part…?

Seriously, the episltes on Shurtugal would make people crap their pants, then find the Epislter and kill him.
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 20:47 said:

Speaking of that, I just sent Mike at shurtugal.com an email including those comments and a few others, and I hope he reads it, and maybe post something about it. It only makes them look bad.

And yeah, I’d really like to go and start an ‘Epistle’ thread, but it would only lower our rather high position.
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 20:49 said:

I am fine with sinking to other’s level to destroy them. I’m just selfless like that.

Is that bad……?
Addie on 27 October 2008, 20:54 said:

Yeah … You know, I kind of wish the Inheritance fans would put on a better show for themselves. I think the books have flaws, but to enjoy them isn’t a crime or anything … But it lowers their reputation when they post things like the above. Good that you sent that email …

Um, what do you mean by ‘our rather high position’? (I think I might know, but just to clarify … )

SWQ, applause! I support your resolution. ;}
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 20:58 said:

Our higher position is we don’t go to shurtugal.com and post flaming comments and insults to everyone there. I have gone to shurtugal.com forums, and posted some light arguments, and the people somewhat agreed with me. Somewhat.

People like that guy just bring everyone down though.
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 21:00 said:

I would totally go to Shurtugal and post the epistles (not under the name Rhaego) and soundly defend them.

I am not so scrupulous as my peers it seems…
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 21:05 said:

If you do, let us know. That is a nice bombshell I want a front row seat to. Then I’ll record all the fans comments and send another nice long email to Shurtugal.com
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 21:07 said:

I would be so flamed. Most of them would likely not even address the epistles themselves, they would just flame me over and over.

I might do it, and if I do, I’ll say so.
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 21:08 said:

Hokay.
Addie on 27 October 2008, 21:14 said:

Virgil: Yeah, that’s basically what I thought. Thanks for clarifying, though. And I agree, we should be acting honorably even if some others aren’t.

Virgil and Rhaego: Well, I too think the Epistles on Shurtugal would be vastly amusing, but, well, are you sure? The Epistler can get a little – um – strident … I mean, I can’t deny it would be funny, but I’m worried it might hurt some feelings, too. Mightn’t it?
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 21:21 said:

Yeah, but you could argue that their comments hurt our feelings more.
SlyShy on 27 October 2008, 21:23 said:

Do be respectful…
Hedwig Widrig on 27 October 2008, 21:24 said:

Well, as evidenced above, just existing as critics of Inheritance is pretty much offensive to the existence of certain fans. I don’t think there are degrees of hurting feelings when people are that extreme.

That being said, I’m really not sure what stirring that hornet nest would achieve. Hilarity, sure.
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 21:26 said:

Yeah, I’m not for it. But let me speculate!
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 21:55 said:

Haha, I’d like to see their reaction if you posted the third epistle about immature fans for an immature work…

That might be a bit below the belt though.

(Dammit, I had to go back and capitalize every single ‘I’ and the first word of every sentence. I’ve gotten so used to typing without them…)
Addie on 27 October 2008, 22:09 said:

You’re doing admirably, SWQ.

Yes, that one might be a considerably below the belt. After all, it is insulting them. It’s one thing to laugh over it here, quite another to put it on Shurtugal, funny though it might be to see their reaction.
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 22:20 said:

Although, spikelea was a perfect example of the Epistler’s point…

Ah well. Some people will be immature idiots.

P.S. And thank you, Addie, for your encouragement. ;)
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 22:35 said:

I won’t post the insulting one (if I do post at all).

I was thinking of posting them, and then asking if they would refute the Epistles.

That way, it isn’t really insulting them as much as it is saying “People think this. Are they sound in their logic?”

That’s fine, right?
Snow White Queen on 27 October 2008, 22:51 said:

So basically saying ‘Well, this is what some other people are saying about Inheritance, what do you think?’ and see whether there are any coherent responses?
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 22:59 said:

Rhaego makes an interesting point. If you ask them to back their ideas, it’s a just request. They can still get mad though..
Rhaego on 27 October 2008, 23:05 said:

I figured if someone came on II or went to the forums and posted a whole article on how G.R.R.M. or J.K. Rowling were horrible writers, I would expect someone to post a coherent argument in opposite. All of us would.

Why should Pao-Pao fans be held to any different standard?

I hope someone writes an Anti-Epistle, and it is a good rebuttal to the originals’ argument (I’ll admit it, it’s a long shot).

I want to see this because even though I agree with the Epistles, I would like to have met three or four coherent Inheritance fans in my life.
Addie on 27 October 2008, 23:19 said:

Well, I’m coherent … ;)

All right, I’m not exactly a fan, but I have said some nice things about it. And so have MegaB and a couple of others. It’s a start.

Interesting idea, asking them to refute the Epistles. The defining factors of this site and its participants (as far as I can tell, anyway) are coherence and respect. So hey, if you can do it in a way that isn’t offensive …
Virgil on 27 October 2008, 23:38 said:

All good points. If you guys did post a pro-Inheritance article, some, but not all, of the flaming comments would stop.

And Sly would have to create a whole new section..
Snow White Queen on 28 October 2008, 00:00 said:

Well, see what they say.

I’d like to see an article in defense of Inheritance too (I was hoping for Paolini himself to talk to II but I’ll settle for this).

I guess it’s only fair, after all…and stereotyping fans based on a few idiotic ones isn’t very respectful either.
newbie on 28 October 2008, 23:13 said:

buku opo c iki, kok ra tau ngerti aq?

:P
Virgil on 29 October 2008, 15:34 said:

He’s speaking Urgalish… must have pieced it together from the translation section.
SlyShy on 29 October 2008, 17:46 said:

Do I even want to know how you figured that out?

Now, does anyone want to translate?
stridingarch on 31 October 2008, 15:15 said:

He’s still writing like a 15 year old; in fact, he’s writing more like a 15 year old now than when he actually was 15. He can’t even keep his own themes consistent within his chapters. In the big battle scene with Roran he builds up how Roran wants to use cunning rather than brute force to defeat his enemies. After the strategy is apparently successful, Roran goes on the most ridiculous brute force display ever seen, which culminates with someone actually keeping tally in the middle of a battle! I’ve read fan fiction on sites designed for 10-14 year olds that would be better if they had the same editorial staff! The writing was sloppy, the hyperbole overdrawn, and the editing inconsistent. I think he’s gotten so full of his own success he’s stopped listening to advice from his publishing house, but they won’t kill the goose laying the golden eggs. While the thought behind this book was ok and it has some time honored fantasy convention behind it, the execution was poor. His editors need to give this child a tough love session quickly. If he doesn’t shape up, and fast, he’s going to be the writing equivelant of Britney Spears: a washed up mess who believed they were immune to falling reduced to desperately searching for a way to get back into the game.
Virgil on 31 October 2008, 15:28 said:

Well put, and I like the Britney Spears comparison.. it’s very true.
kdls on 2 November 2008, 13:00 said:

faggots
Samael on 2 November 2008, 13:07 said:

“faggots”

Now that’s rather unkind.
SlyShy on 2 November 2008, 13:59 said:

Perhaps he meant a bundle of sticks tied together by rope… sigh.

I’ll never understand what motivates these people.
C. Emmons on 2 November 2008, 23:32 said:

“The chief difference between words and deeds is that words are always intended for men for their approbation, but deeds can be done only for God.” -Leo Tolstoy

I find it interesting to see how much SlyShy likes to impress us all with his/her literary genius. Only a couple of things come to mind. First what book did SlyShy write? Also for how much SlyShy likes to reference Tolstoy, he/she didn’t really understand much of Tolstoy’s themes or commentary on the world. Finally, if you want to impress everyone with your literary knowledge reference War and Peace. Oh, and as far as a recommendation to read Dumas, I recommend The Count of Monte Cristo, much better than Three Musketeers.

I say enjoy the books. Only an idiot would compare Tolstoy and a fledgling author that hasn’t even finished his first series. I’ll prance around sharing my opinions about literature as soon as I get published. Until then, I’ll read and keep my opinions to myself.
SlyShy on 2 November 2008, 23:50 said:

Dear C. Emmons,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Actually, it’s because I’m impressed with the literary genius of others that I write this. People were fond of saying that Paolini was a literary genius, an author at fifteen, a recent prodigy among writers. So I bring up Tolstoy because he was a true genius, not the kind of fluff that seems to qualify as genius these days.

Anyways, you still failed to bring up a new argument. I don’t have to be a published author to review a book. How many film critics do you think are film producers or writers? None, with maybe an exception.

In your post you fail to bring up a reason for why you dislike the book. Instead, you substitute an ad hominem attack, which does nothing to boost the validity of your argument. The burden of proof lies with you, provide specific examples of parts of Paolini’s writing that you enjoyed. Provided specific parts of the book you found touching, or parts you found insightful. These probably exist, although fans seem to be woefully short on examples.

Ironically, you still expressed your opinions on literature a number of times throughout your post. But thanks for your book suggestions, Monte Christo deserves a revisit.
C. Emmons on 3 November 2008, 00:51 said:

It wasn’t accidental that my post didn’t contain a new argument. That’s because I wasn’t arguing about Brisingr. Rather, I was commenting on critics in general, but more specifically as it relates to Brisingr. Thus negating your claim that it was an argumentum ad hominem. Also, “burden of proof lies . . . Provide specific parts of the book you found touching”. . . Your voice in this narrative suggests that one can objectively quatify whether a passage is valid in its ability to affect readers and evoke any emotional response, which in its very nature is self-refuting reasoning. The value of life is not in criticizing others, but in creating. In an argument you would beat me hands down, and I’m probably not as intelligent or well-read as you. By the very rapidity of your response though, I think that you need to get a life. I think it’s safe to assume though that I enjoy literature a lot more than you do. My point is that I choose to savor literature rather than dissect it. If a books sucks, don’t read it again.
Billy the Kid on 3 November 2008, 01:03 said:

I don’t exactly get what your trying to say. Only an idiot would try and compare Tolstoy and a fledgling author? Maybe so, but only if that author has the decency to admit he’s a fledgling author, and doesn’t say things like “It’s really nice to see J.K. Rowling really spread her wings.” There are few authors I can think of who should be able to make that sort of judgment about Mrs Rowling, and Tolstoy is one of them. Christopher Paolini most definitely isn’t. So it seems to me that all thats going on is that the child prodigy is being brought to heel.

And then you just completely abandon objectivity and accuse Sly of having no life? Classy, buddy, classy.
Snow White Queen on 3 November 2008, 01:05 said:

I don’t mean to interrupt, but most people here who know me know that I have a compulsive need to butt into other people’s conversations. Especially when they’re interesting. :)

I don’t know about many other people on here, but I criticize other writers (maybe ‘critique’ is a better word), examine where they went wrong, etc., in the hopes that I don’t make the same mistakes when I create my own work.

I happen to use Paolini a lot for learning experiences simply because he was about the same age I am now when he started writing Eragon, and also we both write in the same genre, so we would probably encounter some of the same pitfalls.

So technically, do I still have value in life if I use criticism of others to better my own creation?

Another long post. I think I’m going to get carpal tunnel eventually. Yikes.
SlyShy on 3 November 2008, 01:09 said:

Hey C,

Stick around the site a bit. You say the point of life should be creation, and we all agree… which is why this site is about writing, and how we can use examples from published authors to improve our writing. You probably hadn’t noticed, but there are ten of us here who are doing National Novel Writing Month together, because the creation is exactly what we enjoy. Our criticism of literature is for a very specific purpose. It’s to learn, so we can try and make our own marks on the world.

If you have any other questions, I’d be happy to answer.
C. Emmons on 3 November 2008, 01:12 said:

Mr. Bonnie, what are you talking about? I don’t mean to take any cheap shots at Sly. At least I can respect him/her. What the hell are you talking about though?
SubStandardDeviation on 3 November 2008, 01:26 said:

Why can’t I derive enjoyment from literature by criticizing it? It’s a lot more than I derive from just reading it. Even stories I love to death, I feel it’s important to keep perspective and realize that yes, maybe this character isn’t as well-written as he could be, or this diction might bore some people. Everyone is going to dislike something you like, or vice versa, and you don’t want to seem like a raving fanboy when you address the critics.

And – this may be my non-writer speaking – but what exactly is so “pompous” about saying “It’s really nice to see J.K. Rowling really spread her wings”? Is it any different from me saying “Series X up to book N was fairly mediocre, so it’s great to see that in book N+1, author A’s writing is greatly improved”?
SlyShy on 3 November 2008, 01:26 said:

He was probably referring to:

I think that you need to get a life.

I don’t particularly mind though. I’m at the computer at 11:30pm, big deal. I’d have to be a pretty hardcore party animal to be away from my room right now. You’ll notice I can’t respond this quickly in the day time, when most people have their normal lives, as I’m in class. ;)
C. Emmons on 3 November 2008, 01:26 said:

Before signing off, I must say that I meant no offense to you, Sly. Even your last response gives me a more comprehensive understanding of your involvement with the site. Perhaps I’ve just abandoned my desire to be published because I fear criticism. I’m not much for psychology either, so I’ll just say that I may very well visit the site again. Perhaps if I learned to be more critical in my analysis of literature, my writing would improve. I’d love to drop questions for you if I have any. Thanks for your time. Sorry for the rashness of my first response.
happycrab on 3 November 2008, 03:03 said:

I’m suprised that by the time I found this webpage the conversations are still going with the reviewer actually responding to everyone.

I haven’t actually read the book and am not really planning to. I didn’t even finish Eragon (I finally had enough after the long walk in the desert). Maybe one day I’ll actually get through them just for the sake of it.

I read this very insightful and well written and reasoned review because I was interested in how Chris did with this book since his last two didn’t do very well critically. Just as I expected, he didn’t do very well.

I’m really hoping to magically hit it big with a fantasy series of my own. Yes I’m young but so was Chris so if I have a better story (which I’m pretty sure I do) and spend a lot of time improving my writing and storytelling techniques I should be able to do well… maybe.

I hope this site can help with this and maybe one day in the very far future you will be explaining why my book is bad.
Peach Hat on 3 November 2008, 16:15 said:

to be truly honest i found the book very exciting and i found it hard to put down.
with a facination of fantasy myself i genuinely thought it was a good book. at a young age (in my teens)this is a book i like to read. Im not sure how old some of you guys are, but it sounds like you are older than the book was projectedto. in my opinion i think that this book has been done for younger children who enjoy fantasy and would like more books to read other than harry potter and such likes.

i also think you have given a one sided opinion of the book and not reflected on its good sides and of the author’s.
if you have any comment i will be happy to read them but please… no bad language.
Virgil on 3 November 2008, 16:31 said:

We do have a rather one sided opinion here, but it’s harder to be an atheist and write something with a religious point of view, and vice versa. Everyone that comes here praising the book is invited to write about the good things about Inheritance, but so far no one has taken us up on the offer.
Carbon Copy on 3 November 2008, 16:49 said:

I wrote a few positive things about these books and Paolini. It isn’t easy, but it can be done.

Anyway, to directly reference some of Peach’s comments… First of all, I am really pleased you enjoyed the book. Nobody here is going to mock you for liking a book.

The book is aimed at Young Adult readers, but that isn’t an excuse for the book’s poor quality. Harry Potter is aimed at a young audience, yet has gripped the imaginations of countless adults. The same goes for the Narnia books, Alice in Wonderland, and many others. I read a lot more books aimed at children than books aimed at adults (research). I thoroughly enjoy a lot of YA and pre-teen books, but I did not enjoy Paolini’s work.

The spiderwick Chronicles is a fabulous example of a book for young children that I absolutely love. The book is a fun adventure, but there is such a beautiful, underlying story of family and commitment and loss that I find it compelling on a very emotional level.

Basically, an author should respect his audience, and there is no excuse for bad writing simply because you are writing for younger readers.

Perhaps Sly’s review comes across as a little one-sided, but you also have to note that he does say Paolini has improved. Furthermore, Sly states that the failure of Brisingr is a dissapointment. You see, no-one here wants Paolini to write bad books (or so I believe). We want to see him produce something wonderful. He has the talent to write something amazing, and I hope that one day he lives up to his potential.

Anyway, keep reading.
Peach Hat on 3 November 2008, 16:54 said:

I see your point but i doubt anyone would want to put up anything good about the book with all the people who say it is a bad thing. They would probably be scared of being shouted down with people telling them they are wrong or people taking the wrong view of things.

im sure i can get people to take up your offer on why it is a GOOD book to read!!!
Virgil on 3 November 2008, 17:02 said:

We aren’t Shurtugal.com Peach, anyone is welcome to post anything positive about Inheritance, so long they do it with a civil attitude.

Even the people who flame here are treated with respect.
Peach Hat on 3 November 2008, 17:12 said:

ok ok

chill out and dont get angry.

the books have brought enjoyment to people.

im only submitting my thoughts.
Will on 7 November 2008, 17:56 said:

I loved this book, i thought it was utterly amazing and easily as great as the last 2.
I don’t agree with his poor descriptions as i found the that everything that needed to be described was in such detail that it made the
images seem vivid and real
I would happily give this book 4.9 out of 5,
Only so as it doesn’t end like i thought it would(but who cares??) and that nothing is really perfect….

And if u think im just being blind to your opinions on his ‘lack of description’ I’m only 12. lol
Billy the Kid on 8 November 2008, 02:02 said:

Read War & Peace. Thats good writing.Tolstoy writes almost 1400 pages, he has some fantastic descriptions, vivid scenes, amazing characterization and a brilliant plot. Then read Eragon and try to say it’s quality writing. The point is, Paolini can’t hope to compare to Tolstoy, I think thats obvious. But by describing him with adjectives like ‘brilliant’ and such, we take away from truly inspired writers and degrade the art. The Inheritance Cycle, in my opinion, is entertaining to read, something to pick up when your bored on a Sunday afternoon. But it is not inspired writing and it does not change the way you look at the world, the way War & Peace did for me. Its just one man’s fantasies. And I have had that view, even since I was 12 :)
Morvius on 8 November 2008, 02:18 said:

I agree. The first book was at least, entertaining to read. But then again, in terms of entertainment, I would still prefer R.A. Salvatore’s works. Eldest…I was skipping through majority of the book frankly.

His descriptions…are confusing at times. Like the part where he talked about his stomach rumbling. I think that was sufficient but noooo, he had to talk about liquid erupting from his innards or something along those lines. I seriously thought something else was happening.
Snow White Queen on 8 November 2008, 16:23 said:

The first one was good fun, even if not very creative or well-written. Eldest was as dull as they come. I’ve been debating whether I should even try Brisingr.

(I’ve never read War and Peace. I tried, but then I got either bored or confused. I should try again one day)
Billy the Kid on 8 November 2008, 17:31 said:

Haha yeah it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless you’ve got kind of a cursory knowledge of the political landscape at the time and of the Napoleonic Wars. For some reason I did when I was twelve :S probably because I have no life :D
Rand on 8 November 2008, 17:35 said:

I read in an article that CP was inspired by the Minnesotan? landscape he grew up in. (somewhere in the midwest in any case) and that may explain some of the hobstoning of scenes together.
SlyShy on 8 November 2008, 18:06 said:

Good lord, no, he has nothing to do with Minnesota. I think he grew up in Montana.
Rand on 8 November 2008, 18:11 said:

Aha. Apologies.
Billy the Kid on 9 November 2008, 00:14 said:

Christopher lives in Montana, where the dramatic landscape feeds his visions of Alagaësia.

Its on the inside of the book cover of Eragon.

No, I don’t have it memorized, I just have the book sitting in front of me :P
Gildor on 9 November 2008, 14:25 said:

(Please don’t judge to harsly on my spelling, i’m dutch. I’ve read the english version of the book, however, and I will reply as such)

I’ve tried, and tried again. Then I’ve really tried…

But I can’t, in no way possible, agree to the things you have stated in your review.

Yes (Damn, i agreed) the dwarvish section was a bit drawn out, but an entire monarchy just got its monarch killed, that takes a while to react. And it was Paolini’s way to depicture the Dwarves as slow and thoughtful.

‘Paolini’s descriptions are void of those little details of description that stick with us’ Good lord. Every step Eragon takes, every wingbeat of Saphira is described. Paolini is one step short of describing the individual particles of dust floating in the air.

As for the dialogue, it is not written in modern day speech, because it would be rather ‘out-of-place’ don’t you think? Half of the ‘Epicness’ (as I call it) is delivered within the dialogue.

All in all, I found it a very well-written book, and a very good way to continue the series. But who am I to judge.

Note that I mean no offence to you, ‘ShySly’ (awesome name by the way). It is just the way you see it, as this is mine. I respect your opnion, as I will hope you will respect mine.
SlyShy on 9 November 2008, 15:07 said:

Thanks for taking the time to write, Gildor.

Dialog is an interesting thing. There is a very fine line you have to tread when writing dialog. Of course if Paolini had written it using modern slang like, “Hey cool man, I’ve got a sweet sword now” it would have sounded out of place. But on the other hand, you have to avoid sounded stilted like “Aye, verily doth thy eyes cast upon mine brow a brilliant cascades of sweat” which is where Paolini sometimes stumbles.

‘Paolini’s descriptions are void of those little details of description that stick with us’ Good lord. Every step Eragon takes, every wingbeat of Saphira is described. Paolini is one step short of describing the individual particles of dust floating in the air.

Yeah, which is the exact problem. What I’m trying to describe is a very nuanced thing. There are certain details that give things personality, and this is incredibly hard to explain, but they are there. Good writers only need to describe maybe two things about their characters, and the reader can know exactly who they are, because the writer has distilled their essence. I’m certainly not skilled enough to do this distillation yet, and I don’t believe Paolini is either. It comes from life experience, and seeing the world as it is—astute observation and much toil.
Virgil on 9 November 2008, 15:50 said:

Gildor, you’ve been one of the more well versed Inheritance fans to post here, congratulations. It’s a rare honor, and you’re grammar is much better than the English speaking fans.

The amount description that Paolini uses can be good to set some scenes, and it rare cases the over describing works well. But it’s a continuous thing that he does even through faster paced scenes and battle sequences. No one stops and admires the sun or describes Saphira’s ‘mighty thews’ when someone is trying to kill them. Paolini needs more experience in writing these things, he’s going for epic but overshooting to mood-breaking.

Yes, characterization is horribly hard..
LiquidNitrogen on 9 November 2008, 15:52 said:

I must agree…
Snow White Queen on 9 November 2008, 16:02 said:

Gildor, you should be proud of yourself.

On top of being one of our more respectful, polite defenders of CP, your grammar is much much better than many of the Inheritance fans we’ve seen here.

And by any chance, did you take your name from the Elf Gildor Inglorien from Lord of the Rings? Sorry, had to ask.
Gildor on 9 November 2008, 17:35 said:

Well SWQ,

We share the same name. My name translated in the Quenyan language (The language that the Elves of Middle-Earth speak) is Gildor Calafalas. The ‘Calafalas’ part is not his last name, but we indeed share names.

And for the other ones. Yes, i do know of what you speak. (Teehee, dialogue reference)

It is true that Paolini makes his characters somewhat shallow. And aye (Second reference, i must stop this) he uses some heavy sentences here and there.

But I like these sort of things. It makes the reader possible to fill in the blanks. The entire battle on the Burning plains was fabricated by my own, wicked mind, so it was awesome by my reconing, because I had created it.

And yes, I am quite proud of myself for mastering the english-language.

PS. I had not thought of this “Distillation of the essence of personages.” I must try this myself.

Oh, did I mention I am a writer myself? I’m writing an english-Fantasy story. Some of you might like it.
LiquidNitrogen on 9 November 2008, 17:55 said:

Hope you submit it. Btw SlyShy, how do you submit work?

Thanks,

LiquidNitrogen
SlyShy on 9 November 2008, 18:04 said:

Submission Guide, which, I admit, is clearly in need of an update.
Snow White Queen on 9 November 2008, 18:10 said:

@ Gildor:

You seem to be pretty well versed in Tolkien lore. Although I’m not as knowledgeable about the Elven languages and such, I love both LotR and the Silmarillion.

Inheritance is so derivative of Tolkien in so many ways, my reasoning is why should I bother reading CP when I can just as easily read the originals, which are much, much better?

It’s the same issue with Star Wars- Paolini basically took George Lucas’s plot and blended it with Tolkien’s Middle-Earth culture.

It was fresh when originally done, but now many of the plot points in Inheritance are tired old cliches. Example: the ‘Eragon, I am your brother!’ scene in Eldest. Hint- replace ‘Eragon’ with ‘Luke’ and ‘brother’ with ‘father’.

I liked Eragon (the book) the best (this was before I was as obsessed with LotR), but now I’m not interested, especially with what happened with Murtagh. I feel that CP took the one character with potential and then marginalized him to a cliched role in the plot.

Of course, these are just my own opinions, and I’d never dream of being disrespectful to anyone who thought otherwise.

And I’d be interested in reading your story, if you’re willing to post it here. Check out my work too in the NaNoWriMo section if you’d like! Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Virgil on 9 November 2008, 18:44 said:

Liquid check the about page to find out.
LiquidNitrogen on 9 November 2008, 18:57 said:

Yeah I checked it out.
Gildor on 10 November 2008, 11:50 said:

@SWQ:

I agree with you that CP isn’t at the same level as Tolkien. Who is? Trying to match his brilliance is like trying to light a fire under water.

(Do not say that it is possible)

I still enjoy his books, altough they are a bit streched out and has facets of other books in it.

But my story is written á la CP style, so I think i might get a lot of ‘Critique’ on it. I will submit the ‘trailer’ version first, see if it is liked.
SlyShy on 10 November 2008, 12:31 said:

The problem is that CP sets himself up for the comparison. He very much wants to be Tolkien.
Gildor on 10 November 2008, 13:42 said:

Yeah that’s true…

Not that i think of it, he is a starting writer…flaws are quite obvious…

I still enjoy his stories, but you’ve won me over. He is one writer who isn’t nearly experiënced as some of the great names.
Addie on 10 November 2008, 14:15 said:

You know, for a first try at writing, Inheritance is really not all that bad. Yes, it has a lot of flaws, but it has some considerable merits too.

The only problem – I think – is that a lot of people, Paolini perhaps included, think it’s good to go, it’s on a level with the classics, just as it is. And I can’t really say I agree with them.

Personally, I think Inheritance is sort of interesting, but only mildly so.
Hedwig Widrig on 10 November 2008, 16:10 said:

I think Addie put it pretty well. Eragon is a great start, especially considering how young the author was at the time. But when he made it big, he got lulled into a sense that that’s all there is to it, which isn’t true. It was just a start, and to become like the people he admires he has to go somewhere with it, not stay at the level where he started.
Snow White Queen on 10 November 2008, 19:53 said:

If CP put the books through a thorough revision, weeding out all the junk and inconsistencies, then the books would be much much better, although still not great. It doesn’t seem to be happening though.

Unfortunate, isn’t it?
Addie on 10 November 2008, 20:02 said:

I think it’s too late now, too far down the line. (Except if you mean purple prose, etc.)
Snow White Queen on 10 November 2008, 20:12 said:

I hope he eventually learns his lesson though.
Addie on 10 November 2008, 20:15 said:

Might do – you never know.
Snow White Queen on 10 November 2008, 20:32 said:

Yeah, somehow, I don’t think he’s just going to stop writing after the Inheritance series. I have a feeling that he’ll be back, hopefully as a more mature writer.
SlyShy on 10 November 2008, 20:37 said:

He’s set himself up to have a whole load of spin-off series set in Alagaesia. The Eldest Deluxe Edition was the harbinger of doom for me.
Addie on 10 November 2008, 20:42 said:

The one the Epistler was shredding? (I didn’t know there had been one till I read that.)

You really think he’s going to write more Alagaesia books? Won’t Eragon have left?
Hedwig Widrig on 10 November 2008, 21:05 said:

He could end up following Eragon. Or there’s Roran and his family. Or the next generation of dragon riders. Lots of things he could pick up on.

Personally, I hope he tries something different and maybe a little more inspired. Alagaesia can only last as a bestseller for so long. Eventually people will stop buying absolutely everything and he’ll have to find a real niche…one can hope.
Virgil on 10 November 2008, 21:30 said:

Someone said it on here.. Paolini’s a Britney Spears author.. I think Meyer is the same way, but she’s more popular and much smarter.
Articdragone on 11 November 2008, 20:11 said:

Oops sry.
Just pointing out, the book topped all of the recent big teen-aimed fantasies recently – aka HP, Twilight series, Artemis Fowl, and maybe even the Uglies series.
I personally enjoy all the fluff and stuff and think the scenes are pretty cool. I think Alegaesia is a pretty cool place and fairly real as far as fantasies go.
Rand on 11 November 2008, 20:16 said:

You ought to read Lord of the Rings someday. There’s a pretty place.
Snow White Queen on 11 November 2008, 20:37 said:

@ articdragone:

Inheritance topped Twilight? Even though I don’t like either, I have to say that’s unlikely, especially with all the movie furor now.
MegaB on 12 November 2008, 08:25 said:

Ahh but there was movie furor over Eragon too wasn’t there? And everyone knows what a farce that turned out to be…
SHP133 on 12 November 2008, 18:33 said:

very good review. im a big fan of the Inheritance series and i feel you presented your opinion in a fair, though a little harsh, way. You made your points and backed them up. good job =)
jpixer on 13 November 2008, 14:50 said:

yeah i think your right but just another thought maybe what if eragon raised brom from the dead and he was to be the rider now that whould be kool
Nate Gamer on 18 November 2008, 13:17 said:

Shakespeare isn’t old English, he’s modern English. While I thought Eldest was trash and I have no intention of getting Brisingr, I can’t help but doubt the credibility of a lit reviewer that doesn’t know his shit about Shakespeare.
SlyShy on 18 November 2008, 13:23 said:

Nate, you are right. Shakespeare is early modern English. What my point is though, is that Shakespeare sounds far removed from our English, and any legitimate Old English is nearly unintelligible. The dialog in Brisingr is a butchery of what Paolini fancies to be Beowulf-esque.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the "O" problem between the two texts of King Lear, now that we are discussing Shakespeare.
SlyShy on 19 November 2008, 13:45 said:

Yeah, based on the overwhelming amount of evidence, it would appear that Eragon fans are all homophobes.

Also, I don’t play WoW, don’t live with my parents, etc. Way to project. If you projected any harder, I could present a powerpoint.
Parthenon on 19 November 2008, 13:58 said:

“im only 14”

Oh, that was obvious, sport.
Legion on 19 November 2008, 14:59 said:

never read eragon

You’re missing out. It’s the best book in the entire Inheritance series so far. The movie version of Eragon was even more of a Trainwreck/10 than Brisingr—it was drinking game worthy.

and i can tell you guys are friggin those kinda guys who go
im better than you i am a level 72 orc swords master! and live in your moms basement eating pizza pops and pop tarts!!!

Yes, and if you strive to be just like us when you grow up, maybe someday you’ll actually be able to write properly in English. Have a nice day. =]
Snow White Queen on 19 November 2008, 20:15 said:

@wow:

Being fourteen is no excuse for having the spelling and grammar skills of a kindergartener.

I should know, since I’m fourteen too. (Nerd and proud of it)
Scary_Viking on 19 November 2008, 21:37 said:

Nate, you are right. Shakespeare is early modern English. What my point is though, is that Shakespeare sounds far removed from our English, and any legitimate Old English is nearly unintelligible. The dialog in Brisingr is a butchery of what Paolini fancies to be Beowulf-esque
-sly

Huh? While I’ll agree that Paolini’s archaicage is a joke, it’s a joke of early modern english, not a joke of old english. How exactly is it ‘Beowulf-esque?’ It’s not old-english-ish at all. Old english isn’t ‘nearly’ unintelligible; it’s completely unintelligible, unless you happen to be fluent. It’s technically a completely different language…
SlyShy on 19 November 2008, 21:49 said:

Paolini takes Beowulf to be one of his influences. It’s just a fancy of his.
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 21:59 said:

I have a life and a girl (no, she’s not ugly) and I still have the thirty seconds it took to realize this book was poorly written.
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 22:03 said:

Oh yeah…I forgot everyone else posted as well.

@Sly
Like he’s ever actually read it.

@wow
I hate MMO’s and agree with Sly’s “projection’ burn. I live with my parents because I’m sixteen, not because I am a loser, and I am hate Hot-Pockets. I do live in the basement though…
SlyShy on 19 November 2008, 22:04 said:

Hey wow,

It doesn’t actually make a difference whether or not you use proper English—it’ll just change my perception of you. My main contention with you is your utter lack of arguments or evidence. All you’ve done is throw out insults. You haven’t even explained why you are so angry. If I were I might have written something like this:

Hi, I just read your review, and I’d like to take a moment to argue some points. I don’t entirely agree on your stance that Brisingr is the harbinger of doom. In fact, that’s unfair, because any book people read deserves praise in a world that is increasingly unintellectual and disconnected from reading. 90% of books don’t earn back their advance. That Inheritance even makes money is a feat.

In your review of Brisingr, you miss a lot of the positives. For one thing, the plot does advance forward, and there is definite development. Important world building information is also presented, such as the origins of Galbatorix’s powers. In saving this for later, Paolini created a hook—you want to find out how Galbtorix did it. And now Paolini is giving part of the answer. This is an effective technique, and many skilled authors employ it.

You also have to consider the considerable progress made in terms of characterization. Nasuada, Arya, etc. are all much better characters in Brisingr.

Just thought I’d let you know my opinion. I’d be happy to discuss if you like.

That would be genuinely refreshing. In fact, a number of people have posted comments like that. And those people are now community members, because the ability to maintain civil discourse is precious indeed.

So just reconsider the next time you post an ad hominem like:

by the way, you nerds just read the book and make one comment,
im only 14
and i can tell you guys are friggin those kinda guys who go
im better than you i am a level 72 orc swords master! and live in your moms basement eating pizza pops and pop tarts!!!

My 12 year old brother would be happy to debate the literary merits of Inheritance, if you so choose.

Enjoy your stay, and don’t be afraid to ask any questions you might have.
Snow White Queen on 19 November 2008, 22:06 said:

@wow:

I’d really like to know who does and who doesn’t have a life here. While we’re discussing a book in a polite, intelligent way, you’re just insulting people for no other reason than you seem to disagree with them.

That’s all well and good, but if you disagree with us, please let us know in a less…idiotic fashion.

Rant over.
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 22:25 said:

You are insulting us as we talk to our friends about a book over the internet because they live too far away to actually talk to.

You can’t do the same as us because your friends either

a.) All have girlfriends they are talking to, or

b.) Stopped talking to you because you speak like you haven’t completed the second grade, or my personal favorite

c.) All haven’t talked to you in a while, because you have been playing Wrath of the Lich King instead of hanging out with them for the past few days. Keep pushing, I’m sure you’ll hit eighty soon.

Unlike my friends, I will resort to Ad Homenheim attacks if I want. I’m a martyr like that.
SlyShy on 19 November 2008, 22:27 said:

Doesn’t matter. I banned him.

The irony blinds me though. I mean, here we both were, wasting time on ImpishIdea. Except that only one of us was acting the fool.
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 22:31 said:

Aww…I really wanted to see his reaction at being beaten at his own game…
Snow White Queen on 19 November 2008, 22:33 said:

Are you kidding, II is my preferred time waster! I’m supposed to be doing homework now, but I can’t concentrate…and I have two tests on Friday.

Urgh.

Glad you banned him though. Although, I consider being called a nerd a compliment. After all, it’s smart people who don’t end up flipping burgers at McDonalds. I hope…
Virgil on 19 November 2008, 22:33 said:

A tag team! So we’ve been deemed true ‘faggots’, and apparently you are the person who tells people who are and aren’t ‘faggots’. Which means you must have a great interest in ‘faggots’, making you a ‘faggot’.

Still with the pointless insulting. While ‘nerdy things’ is a relative term, and we do spend time arguing about them, you’re arguing with us about arguing with that. So vicariously you are arguing about ‘nerdy things’ as well.

I’ve yet to really understand the motive behind the insult ‘get a life’. It’s clearly not literal, because everyone here is quite alive, and hopefully well. But you mean ‘get a life’ as in, do anything besides doing things at the computer, which, you happen to be doing when you take offense at what we say. And I enjoy my life very much, and I could easily tell you to ‘get a life’, since I might consider your life worthless. But since it’s all relative, the argument is worthless. Like so many other arguments posted here.

Make sure we ‘grow a pair’. I’ll skip past being sarcastic and growing a pair of pears, and you’ll mean by ‘growing a pair’ of testicles, or a symbol of manliness and superiority. Many of our regular members are female, and would take great offense to you telling them to ‘grow a pair’ of testicles, since they clearly can’t. But since all males naturally have them, what you said is pointless. Of course, ‘growing a pair’ could mean to man up, and stop being childish about something or other, before we comment back. We comment back on every person who posts here, including yourself. We aren’t afraid to do so, and we still treat you with respect, but you fail to return the favor.

And wham wham, if you truly want make an impact on your arguments, use proper grammar, and be more specific than ‘the part wen the dwarf licked himself then that dragon thing at night’.
Virgil on 19 November 2008, 22:35 said:

Awww.. I worked so hard on that rant, and no future generations will have no source material.
Snow White Queen on 19 November 2008, 22:39 said:

That’s ok, Virgil, I enjoyed it.

(In fact, I was going to comment on how I can’t ‘grow a pair’ since I seem to be lacking a Y chromosome before he was banned, but then I cancelled that one)
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 22:43 said:

I’m going to destroy the next person that calls us ‘Faggots’ again. It’s a ludicrous term, as it means a bundle of easily lit firewood.

Frickin’s stupid people…
Snow White Queen on 19 November 2008, 22:50 said:

I know!

I’ve been wondering how it got the connotation it seems to have now…
Addie on 19 November 2008, 22:51 said:

Virgil – what a delightful rant! Very enjoyable.
Virgil on 19 November 2008, 22:53 said:

Thanks everyone.
Rhaego on 19 November 2008, 23:25 said:

I found it very enjoyable as well.
Parthenon on 20 November 2008, 14:41 said:

My optimistic side hopes that wow will someday outgrow the homophobia. People like that can’t be long removed from history’s wastebasket.
Maverick on 24 November 2008, 14:33 said:

sorry guys i really liked his books little lengthy but good non the less
Snow White Queen on 24 November 2008, 14:39 said:

Nothing to be sorry for, it’s your own opinion, isn’t it? As long as you don’t behave like a total jerk (scroll up a little way on the comments to see what I mean), we don’t mind at all.

But would you mind telling us what specifically you liked?
Virgil on 24 November 2008, 16:09 said:

Maverick, we’re not trying to impress you, so I’m not sure what you mean by ‘sorry’.
Rand on 24 November 2008, 18:32 said:

Sorry if this is off topic but yes, II is now my home base on the internet (ie, the item I check every five minutes for new posts). Posts away!
Snow White Queen on 24 November 2008, 19:36 said:

Me too. XD

This place is so darned addicting.
Billy the Kid on 24 November 2008, 22:04 said:

I know. I am coming close to failing science, and I lay it all on the shoulders of SLy and co.

Aren’t I have an eighty but in MY FAMILY that’s failing. And beside it’s only science, everyone knows THAT doesn’t matter. Medical school is for chumps.
Virgil on 26 November 2008, 12:45 said:

A returner, very rare. I’m glad you must like this site enough to come back time and time again.

Although I’m glad you’re spreading the word, thanks.
Gildor on 26 November 2008, 13:02 said:

That’s one way to put it.

By the way, if I say Dwemer, what do you guys think?
Snow White Queen on 26 November 2008, 15:14 said:

Dwemer?

It sounds like the word ‘dreamer’ being said by someone with a lisp.

Why?
Gildor on 26 November 2008, 15:38 said:

Thinking it would be a name for a section of a race that ‘suddenly’ vanshed, leaving everything they had behind, including the ashes and the clothing they were garbed in.

Actually it’s a diversion of the traditional dwarves. I want to make them bearded and specialized in Metalwork, but not small, not living in caves or under the ground.
Virgil on 26 November 2008, 16:30 said:

I think dwarves when I see Dwemer, but I play a lot of Elder Scrolls. I don’t like the underground metalworking cursing dwarven archetype.
Gildor on 26 November 2008, 16:51 said:

Yeah, you got the point.

I wasn’t going to rip it off, just the general idea appealed to me.
Delzra on 1 December 2008, 23:39 said:

Well, I read it. It took me a while but I did it and without staying up till 3 am as it really wasn’t that captivating. It was still a bit interesting but I was able to skip through the whole dwarf scene by just reading the last sentence of every paragraph and then yay Orik is king. I also skipped a lot of the running.
Its funny but as Eragon was continuously weary and tired from traveling across all of Alagaesia, that weariness was transferred to me and I just got really tired of reading it.
It wasn’t overly painful but it was a nice mindless read that made my Thanksgiving break relaxing.
Turley on 2 December 2008, 16:01 said:

Have none of you realised that the reason Arya is the next rider is beacuse in Eragon Eragon has a dream with 2 dragons flying overhead and him LEAVING ON A BOAT most likely never to come back. however i enjoyed brisingr and would recommend it, tho some of the descritions were atrocious
Addie on 2 December 2008, 19:31 said:

That is something to think about, yes. They were going down a river, though, so they were still technically in Alagaesia – one of the dragons could have been only escorting them to the coast. You never know.
Spilly on 4 December 2008, 08:01 said:

I’m a bit disapppointed. After reading both the others, and being very interested in the third, I’m a little bit put out by it. great review though, and I will ALWAYS want to learn the ancient language, no matter how bad the books flow. :D
I’ll probably get both of them in one tho.
Spilly on 4 December 2008, 08:11 said:

I always thought faggot was a mild insult.
Hmm, seems I was mistaken.
Anyway – Is there any way I can get hold of a complete dictionary of the alagaesia languages? I know it’s silly – but my made up one sounds horrible. And I really want to be able to talk something that sounds like a language.
Snow White Queen on 4 December 2008, 11:00 said:

Try Elvish. It’s a beautiful ‘language’, at least I think so.
Hedwig Widrig on 4 December 2008, 13:08 said:

There’s a glossary at the back of each book, but it’s far from comprehensive. I seriously doubt that CP has even made anything like a comprehensive vocabulary, and I’m sure he has no coherent grammar.

I second SWQ’s idea: if you want to learn a language, don’t waste your time on Alagaesia, but rather try Tolkien’s Tongues of Arda, including Quenya, or maybe the “universal language”, Esperanto. Or you could always make up your own transliteration of English with fancy syllables — that’s about what CP does.
Gildor on 4 December 2008, 13:08 said:

You mean the Tolkien Language?

There are 2 variants, Quenyan and another one. There are complete workshops at a site i will not name because I’m afraid to get banned for advertising.
SlyShy on 4 December 2008, 14:24 said:

It’s perfectly fine for you to post links here.
Erika on 4 December 2008, 14:54 said:

…Paolini take Gaelic, German, and Anglo-Saxon, and morphed them into his created languages.

The “ancient language“ is mostly warped Gaelic, with some Nordic words thrown in for variety. The use of “Tuatha” tipped me off, and once I looked into it, the usage started to make a bit more sense.

The dwarf language sounds like messed-up German or Saxon. With many more dots, dashes, apostrophes, and consonants added in, of course. Same with the Urgal language; Paolini could have been more original, but hey, it was his story, not mine, so why should I judge his choice?
Erika on 4 December 2008, 14:57 said:

*took, not take
SlyShy on 4 December 2008, 16:42 said:

Well, Tolkien had a very similar policy of borrowing from real world languages. That isn’t what bothers me about any of Paolini’s conlangs. What does bother me is that he hasn’t defined the grammatical rules, and through my study of the AL and Urgalish, I can only conclude that they are identical to English, but with a word cipher. That is hardly a new language.
Kevin on 4 December 2008, 18:22 said:

Sly, took the words out of my mouth. Just as the humans on his continent all speak the same language, they all seem to use the same grammar. Didn’t he even have to take French or Spanish to graduate from his home school?
Scary_Viking on 4 December 2008, 21:08 said:

I haven’t really looked at the AL in-depth at ALL because I really just don’t care about trying to figure out a language where half the things you say are a tongue twister, but according to his sites, the only non-ciphering difference is that adjectives come AFTER nouns, like with romantic languages. Which really isn’t that big of a difference, or in some ways a difference at all, since people do occasionally insert their adjectives after nouns in English.
Steven on 4 December 2008, 23:39 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxMFys8B78 I think this is going to be at the bottom so no one will probably see this. However I really wanted to post this. I’m not sure if anyone has actually taken the time to find interviews or videos to see what kind of person CP is but…dude….I gotta say hes a freakin nut haha. Watch this!
Steven on 4 December 2008, 23:44 said:

Also, seeing this video after reading SlyShy’s review of “Brisingr” makes it that much more entertaining too see CP act the way he doe’s. So funny.
Virgil on 5 December 2008, 00:34 said:

He is rich. I wanna be rich.
Snow White Queen on 5 December 2008, 01:06 said:

Who doesn’t?

At least, financially secure.
Addie on 5 December 2008, 02:18 said:

“I don’t know if anyone has actually taken the time to find interviews or videos to see what kind of person CP is” –

Ouch, my pride. Yes, I have. And so have many others here, I think. Note: it’s obvious he believes what he’s saying, i.e. that his work is good (he implies this all the time). I mean, he really thinks so. And that does say something about it …
Spilly on 5 December 2008, 08:04 said:

Well, I’ve almost got a completely new language here. Everything from numbers to words, to sentences. I make it as I need it for my storys, but it’s pretty good and extensive now. Still sounds wrong.
:(

Well, I believe what I write is what MIGHT happen, so in some ways it’s only to be expected. Sorry – Am bragging a bit here. Proud of the language though.
I like tolkein language – if you learn’t it you might make sense to yourself when you say it.
Sven Izzy on 5 December 2008, 12:54 said:

I’m just about to the end of the book, and I don’t know what I’ve gotten out of 600+ pages. If Paolini had any sense, he wouldn’t have needed to make a fourth book; he’d just cut out the junk to make room for the events of “Empire”.

P.S. …“Empire”? Maybe Eragon Skywalker faces Durza Vader again and wins Princess Larya’s heart.

P.P.S. Has anyone else noticed that “Eragon” is just “dragon” with an E?
SubStandardDeviation on 5 December 2008, 13:03 said:

@ Spilly
Everything from numbers to words, to sentences. That’s nice, now does it have grammar? Pronunciation conventions? Does it use the English alphabet, or have its own special symbols? If spoken by a non-human species, do its conventions take into account the differing vocal anatomy?

Otherwise you wind up with what Paolini did, replacing random English words with made-up ones as the plot demands. That’s not a language.

Has anyone read the end of the Eldest Deluxe Edition where Paolini writes about the “rules” for his “language”? Since grammar is a plot point in Eldest…
Addie on 5 December 2008, 16:54 said:

“Has anyone else noticed that Eragon is just dragon with an E?”

Quote from Paolini’s site:“I was really lucky with Eragon because it’s just dragon with one letter changed. It fits the story perfectly, but some other names have caused me real headaches.”

I have to say, though, I never noticed till I read that. Kudos to you for spotting it. ;)
Gildor on 5 December 2008, 18:29 said:

Sorry for being off-topic, but I need advice.

Is it right to use modern-day timephrases in a fantasy/Medieval time period?

Things like ‘a minute’ or ‘an hour’ seem so…out of place.
SlyShy on 5 December 2008, 18:32 said:

The concept of an hour goes back long, long ago. So that wouldn’t be out of place. However, a minute it somewhat contentious, because ancient time keeping devices weren’t very accurate, so it is doubtful whether someone could actually measure a minutes worth of time.

For more off topic questions, I welcome you to join the forum.
Gildor on 5 December 2008, 18:43 said:

Thanks, that helps.
Scary_Viking on 6 December 2008, 00:40 said:

Yea, hours were established by our first civilizations.

Given that with Eragon we’re looking at middle ages tech levels, it makes sense that they could have devices capable of measuring time of day quite accurately. However, I’m not entirely sure when people started using minutes. What I do know is that by the end of the 14th century, there were astronomical clocks showing hours and minutes in addition to astronomical stuff in use in Europe, so the use of minutes in Inheritance isn’t THAT ridiculous, at least depending on how it’s used.

@sly:
Early timekeeping devices in ancient times weren’t accurate, but the middle ages, which Eragons tech seems to stem from, included loads of timekeeping advances in civilization all over the place.
SlyShy on 6 December 2008, 18:13 said:

Scary_Viking,

Yeah, I’m quite aware, because my ancient science class spent about a month on time keeping. The point is, time keeping devices that were accurate enough to read minutes off of were not available to people. Sundial are good for hours, half hours, even quarter hours, but not for small gradients like minutes. An hour glass might do.

Now, the thing is, in Eragon, nobody seems to look at any time keeping device whatsoever, so their mysterious ability to keep track of minutes is inexplicable. A lot of authors seem to make the assumption that everyone has a wristwatch.
Taki on 6 December 2008, 19:39 said:

I liked reading the book, but it wasn’t as good as I had expected it to be. I agree with your review, there is much Paolini can improve and giving some thought to what he’s going to write might actually make it less predictable. (When Oromis told Eragon he’s leaving to fight i simply thought ‘He’s dead’…which is the reason why his death didn’t particularly affect me at the end.)

There was also the fact that the first few chapter were waaay over described, i mean couldn’t he save some adjective for the next book perhaps?

Btw I liked the random moments they broke the monotony :P Though i especially hated moments that should have been important but everyone forgets about them (like what Murtagh said), why write them at all? >.< But then the boat had to reappear…meh

All in all it wasn’t what i hoped for…not that i’m completely disappointed but it’s the kind of book you really don’t feel like reading again until the next book comes out and you need to remember the plot, and for me a good book is one you never tire reading.

P.S I’m sorry if i was repetitive but it’s late and i haven’t managed to read all the replies and i wanted to write something before i start to forget the details of the book ^^;
Addie on 6 December 2008, 20:18 said:

Oh yes, that boat … I actually kind of liked that. A neat idea, I thought.
Spilly on 11 December 2008, 05:06 said:

Yes it has grammar, and it has it’s own alphabet and pronounciation. It’s also rather tedious when it comes to learning – because it’s got completely differant letter sounds and names. It’s also rather mindbogglingly difficult when you try to say anything in it – unfortunately, it’s rather incomplete. ‘LandtNaegrSriVilder’ Is basically – ‘Land shadow the woods’ when translated literally, to them it would be the english equivilant of ‘Land of Shadow woods’ or ‘Land of ShadowY woods’, the ‘shadows’which couls mean anything from a Vuerz (Demonic skinned dog, add an ‘a’ for plural), StarnaLeza (A green slimy lake monster occaisionally given to snap up a passer by for lunch) or a lethrghol (A puddle of green acidic slime which dissolves it’s prey). It’s very confusing… Still needs a lot of work though. And, unfortunately for me (it would make it much easier :) ) it isn’t based on any language.

It was originally a supernatural beings language, sort of blend between Elf and vampire, but now it’s evolved into a backing language in most of my stories. Useful and confusing – giving me a headache trying to remember the words. :)…. And if I rattle on any more about it, I’m not going to be able to stop thinking about it for the next few days, lol.

Theres your answer, SubStandardDeviation. :D

I think Oromis’s death is supposed to garner (I hope I spelt that right…) sympathy and the ‘Oromis is dead! Boo hoo!’ reaction more than anything else, although there may have been a hope for the shock factor of the idea… Judging by ur reviews, perhaps I won’t get the book, but get a revised edition if I can.
Knowing me as i do tho, I’m more likely to try to rewrite it myself. Who knows, the story might be a tad better for it? (tho I seriously doubt it).
Poo on 17 December 2008, 23:28 said:

Time keeping? He’s a copulating unstoppable magical force, what on earth would he need a wristwatch for? He can probably sense the time in the magical energy from the grass
SlyShy on 17 December 2008, 23:33 said:

He had this ability even during Eragon when presumably he wasn’t a demigod yet. Fun times.
Spilly on 19 December 2008, 06:40 said:

Huh? Ok… But wouldn’t he get a better idea of the time from the trees, being ancient and all that?
SlyShy on 19 December 2008, 08:58 said:

If you are saying that Eragon could have gotten a better sense of time by communicating with trees, sure, but he certainly wasn’t doing this during the first book.
jkaymartin on 22 December 2008, 19:39 said:

Coming to the discussion late. I’ve read about half the comments, and I was struck by the topic of Saphira’s internal dialogue (indicated by choppy-dashed-strung-together-words) marking her as distinguishable from the rest of the characters.

Frankly, this is one of the many things that totally annoyed me – first, it wasn’t in either of the previous books, and not until over halfway through in Brisingr – why did it come about now?

Secondly, when she converses with Eragon and others, she communicates in full, grammatically correct sentences, using logic and advanced vocabulary. And a creature who thinks in such a disjointed-unsophisticated-simplistic manner becomes an eloquent speaker how?

just sayin’…
Virgil on 22 December 2008, 19:46 said:

We only see it now because PaoPao decided to respond to some of the fan requests.. and now it obviously is so out of place.
SallyB on 23 December 2008, 02:11 said:

Tiny kvetch: Do you mind if I change “Bildungsroman” to “archetypal” in the fourth paragraph? Becasue I’ve always been under the impression that “Bildungngsroman” implies “book whose main focus is the development of a character”, which in many cases WOULD include sitting around and talking the whole time. Eragon IS supposed to be a coming-of-age story, which is a related genre, but that isn’t the sole focus of the story.
SlyShy on 23 December 2008, 08:46 said:

Sure thing.
Nathan on 23 December 2008, 15:40 said:

Hi all,
I had to do an English project explaining the literary style of a book. I chose to explain Brisingr and would like to thank you for the good grade that I got.

Keep up the good work!
MegaB on 23 December 2008, 17:00 said:

This just keeps going doesn’t it? Hadn’t checked this page in ages and what do you know! Another 100 comments!

WILL IT EVER END?!
Krista on 26 December 2008, 04:29 said:

Great review. I agree 100 %. I haven’t read all of the posts, so please forgive me if this is a rehash. But there are over 500 posts.

Good writing is when every scene advances the story. That is definitely not the case in Brisingr. Chapters could be skipped without any information lost.

Good writing is also when foreshadowing is subtle, so when the information is finally revealed, we say, “Oh yeah, the hermit magician, Tenga, did mention some scrolls.” Instead we were hit over the head by Roran’s hammer, so that if in the last book Tenga doesn’t do something, we will all cry out “What the hell?”

The parts that were boring could have been made interesting by plot twists. I thought that Katrina was rescued too easily, and I waited for her to betray Eragon and Roran because she had sworn an oath to Galbatrax, and Galbatrax wanted her rescued to be a spy.

The Dwarfs were boring, but they didn’t have to be. The whole Eragon attack thing could have been way cool if someone besides the most obvious suspect had been the culprit. I kept waiting for a plot twist that never came.

I suspected Orik of orchestrating the incident since it seemed he gathered the evidence a little too quickly. How cool would it have been if Eragon had discovered that his adopted brother had planned the attack on him, not to kill him but to gain sympathy from the other dwarf clans so that he could claim the throne. Of course, Orik hadn’t intended on the attack to involve spell casters, and never thought that Eragon would really be in danger or that one of the guards would die.

When Eragon learns of Oriks deceit, he is devastated but is forced to hide Orik’s crime and support his claim to the throne for the good of the Varden.

A little conflict between characters would be interesting.

Just a thought.
Morvius on 26 December 2008, 11:18 said:

Exactly…the evidence was gathered so easily. It makes it look as though the opposing clan is made up of such inept fools. Seriously, they send assassins wearing amulets made of a material only THAT clan has.
Will of the Wheel on 1 January 2009, 23:25 said:

I got about a tenth of the way down this page and absolutely had to skip to the end. There are too many comments to read in one go!

Brisingr was very pleasing to me. I recognize the flaws that so many of you have pointed out, but for all of them (and I am not going to explain them all) I have found reasons that they are not flaws, but rather strengths.

1)CP’s writing. I thought it was very good. I noticed that a lot of people said that Eragon’s writing was too childish but Brisingr’s writing was “trying to hard” and such. Firstly, Eragon himsef is fifteen, it is told from his point of view, so isn’t that fitting? I think it brings you closer to his way of thinking. It also is makes the book unique. Secondly; If I was writing a book at fifteen, and I read many reviews which claimed that my writing was immature and not up to par, I would feel very pressured to improve it. But if that was the way I really wrote and it was unique to me, then being pressured to improve would really not improve my writing at all. Hence, your problems with Brisingr. Maybe it is just not natural for him to used the advanced writing!

2)Lack of Romance: I thought this really showed that Eragon had matured greatly. He finally learned to restrain himself from blurting out his professions of love every time he was alone with her. Arya’s complete rejection in Eldest forced him to control his actions lest he lose her forever. Therefore, I do not believe the hug at the end was random, or thrown in there, or a last attempt to for CP to show the love story is not over. I think it was a great development. Arya is an elf, immortal and so she is inclined to take vast amounts of time with decisions and in this case, develop a relationship she is comfortable with concerning Eragon. Not only that but she doesn’t want to be rushed as she undoubtably felt she was when Eragon kept pursuing her so… obviously. They had many really good, personal conversations in Brisingr and Arya seemed to really become comfortable with Eragon now that their relationship was on her terms. So by the end, she could see that Eragon had grown up and she, I believe, let herself give in to her true feelings for Eragon, if only slightly. I’m sure we will get to see them finally have that epic romance as prophecized.

I think that people ought to start looking at the plot of Brisingr in a different light. It was mentioned that Eragon is not a very strong character and the story is supported by the sub characters. I personally don’t know whether or not that is correct. However, I think if it is true, then it may not be a bad thing at all. Eragon has great power, but by being a rather average person, he is not so inclined to use it. Instead, by hearing how others would rather have it used, he decides which way is best. He takes the opinions of all these people that try to influence him and makes it all contribute to how he acts on it. In this way, it is not really a story of how the last Dragon Rider saved all of Alagaesia, but rather, it is a story of how al of Alagaesia saved themselves, because of the Last Dragon Rider. If you think about it, it may actually have never been necessary to have A Dragon Rider. The events wouldn’t have changed much at all. Maybe it is true that Eragon is more or less a figure head (although not entirely). Sure, he has to be there to fight Galbatorix because nobody else has the ability, but does he really have any other true purpose? And maybe that is the truth of it. Perhaps one of the main points of the series is to show that a figurehead may actually be as important as a real hero?
Just a thought.

I will end with one more thought. Perhaps it is true that the Inheritance series is not original. Perhaps it is true that the majority of the people who read it and “loved” it were fifteen. And perhaps it is true that the writing is not up to par and it is full of plotholes and inconsistencies. But I say this; when I read Eragon, and Eldest, and Brisingr, I recognized that this was a writer who began writing this series because he was inspired, continued writing because of his inspiration, and never has the magic of his love of his writing diminished. I do not nitpick for the failings, but rather I delight in these books for CPs obvious love of his work and this obvious love, it entrances me.

ps. I am sorry this is so long and yet touches so few of your flaws.
Will of the Wheel on 1 January 2009, 23:35 said:

Oh, I forgot.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!
SlyShy on 2 January 2009, 22:17 said:

Brisingr was very pleasing to me. I recognize the flaws that so many of you have pointed out, but for all of them (and I am not going to explain them all) I have found reasons that they are not flaws, but rather strengths.

That’s fine, I make no claims as to whether or not Brisingr would be enjoyable reading, or entertainment.

1)CP’s writing. I thought it was very good. I noticed that a lot of people said that Eragon’s writing was too childish

This comment is leveled at his story and plot, not at his writing style. Technically speaking, Christopher Paolini was a well developed writer, but he was very prone to purple prose.

but Brisingr’s writing was “trying to hard” and such.

All the writing in all three books were trying too hard. A writer should always use the right word in a sentence. CP has a penchant for using a longer word which may be further removed from the intended meaning.

Firstly, Eragon himsef is fifteen, it is told from his point of view, so isn’t that fitting?

The story is told in third person, not from Eragon’s view.

I think it brings you closer to his way of thinking. It also is makes the book unique.

There are many, many books written from the perspective of a young protagonist. Perhaps you’d be interested in some of Tamora Pierce’s books, which are generally much better written.

Secondly; If I was writing a book at fifteen,

CP was eighteen when Eragon was published, and he certainly wasn’t writing Brisingr when he was fifteen.

and I read many reviews which claimed that my writing was immature and not up to par, I would feel very pressured to improve it.

It was stated in an interview that CP does not read reviews of his books.

But if that was the way I really wrote and it was unique to me, then being pressured to improve would really not improve my writing at all. Hence, your problems with Brisingr. Maybe it is just not natural for him to used the advanced writing!

Indeed not. CP hasn’t found his voice/style yet, and he is still searching for it. I’m sure he’ll find it eventually, and when he does he will be a much better writer. Most writers spend many books developing their voice, CP is not especially strange in this aspect. It’s just that most authors don’t have their first book published, and would probably be very embarrassed to have them published.

2)Lack of Romance: I thought this really showed that Eragon had matured greatly. He finally learned to restrain himself from blurting out his professions of love every time he was alone with her. Arya’s complete rejection in Eldest forced him to control his actions lest he lose her forever. Therefore, I do not believe the hug at the end was random, or thrown in there, or a last attempt to for CP to show the love story is not over. I think it was a great development. Arya is an elf, immortal and so she is inclined to take vast amounts of time with decisions and in this case, develop a relationship she is comfortable with concerning Eragon. Not only that but she doesn’t want to be rushed as she undoubtably felt she was when Eragon kept pursuing her so… obviously. They had many really good, personal conversations in Brisingr and Arya seemed to really become comfortable with Eragon now that their relationship was on her terms. So by the end, she could see that Eragon had grown up and she, I believe, let herself give in to her true feelings for Eragon, if only slightly. I’m sure we will get to see them finally have that epic romance as prophecized.

Maybe you hear this complain elsewhere, but not here. I agree, this showed a great deal more maturity than the past few books. Although it remains to seen whether Arya will become the green rider, and then they realize their true love.

I think that people ought to start looking at the plot of Brisingr in a different light. It was mentioned that Eragon is not a very strong character and the story is supported by the sub characters. I personally don’t know whether or not that is correct. However, I think if it is true, then it may not be a bad thing at all. Eragon has great power, but by being a rather average person, he is not so inclined to use it.

He’s not an average person. He was at the beginning of Eragon, but if you are arguing he still is, then he isn’t a very dynamic character. He should have changed over the course of three books.

Instead, by hearing how others would rather have it used, he decides which way is best. He takes the opinions of all these people that try to influence him and makes it all contribute to how he acts on it. In this way, it is not really a story of how the last Dragon Rider saved all of Alagaesia, but rather, it is a story of how al of Alagaesia saved themselves, because of the Last Dragon Rider. If you think about it, it may actually have never been necessary to have A Dragon Rider. The events wouldn’t have changed much at all.

Sure, if Galbatorix wasn’t capable of destroying an entire nation on his own.

Maybe it is true that Eragon is more or less a figure head (although not entirely). Sure, he has to be there to fight Galbatorix because nobody else has the ability, but does he really have any other true purpose? And maybe that is the truth of it. Perhaps one of the main points of the series is to show that a figurehead may actually be as important as a real hero?
Just a thought.

Eragon singlehandedly decided the outcome of several battles, I think it would be a poor interpretation of the text to call him a figurehead.

I will end with one more thought. Perhaps it is true that the Inheritance series is not original. Perhaps it is true that the majority of the people who read it and “loved” it were fifteen. And perhaps it is true that the writing is not up to par and it is full of plotholes and inconsistencies. But I say this; when I read Eragon, and Eldest, and Brisingr, I recognized that this was a writer who began writing this series because he was inspired, continued writing because of his inspiration, and never has the magic of his love of his writing diminished. I do not nitpick for the failings, but rather I delight in these books for CPs obvious love of his work and this obvious love, it entrances me.

Then you have a bright future ahead of you as a reader. I’m sure with time you’ll come to read and enjoy lots of other books, such as Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea series, among others, which all display vivid imagination and passion. Enjoy the journey.
Spilly on 9 January 2009, 06:41 said:

I was just looking at my earlier post (BTW – late happy new year + Christmas to evrybody
) Very late, sry) And one little word caught my eye…

DEMIGOD???? :O When did this pop up??

PPS; @wind in the wheel; Shyshy, I kind of agree with Wind in the wheel, some of the plot doesn’t seem very original, but he’s got a smooth-ish style and in some ways this hides the flaws. Myself – being a avid reader but with a slightly narrowed experiance in this (Prefering Vampires and dragons to fantasy Romance), I find that I can really bury myself in eragon and eldest, and prefer them to most other books. Although the plot can be a bit of a let down, I’‘m keen to read Empire/Brisingr/whatever one it was, and will look out for any others. I do like his style, but prefer my own, however decidedly english it is. Sorry, I dragged on a bit there, but I thought I’d add my two pennorth to the mix to see what comes out the other end. :)
Lomax on 13 January 2009, 03:27 said:

My feelings about this book are mixed. On the one hand, there is an enormous amount of unnecessary detail and random scenes. I found it arduous to read, and was somewhat dissatisfied with most of the scenes depicted in this book. On the other hand, it kept my attention, and I enjoyed reading it, despite the extremely boring dwarf scenes and tedious bouts of description. I think that the idea of the book is a masterpiece, however CP lacks the natural talent to flawlessly weave the story together.

Many of the issues I had with the book have already been brought up, so I will only share two of the points I haven’t seen made.

I liked what CP did with Roran’s character, but it was rather overdone. At the end of the battle, he is standing on top a pile of bodies 20 feet high?! Come on, I don’t care how many broken wagons and dead bodies they put in the way of the advancing soldiers, I really doubt that hundreds of guys would stand in line patiently waiting for their turn to get their head smashed in. Granted, there was several soldiers behind Roran, as well as a handfull of soldiers on the roof firing arrows, not to mention the remnants of Sand and Edric’s men, but the absurdity of the scene depicted in the book boggles my mind.

Another thing that never ceased to bother me was the relationship between Saphira and Eragon. I realize that spending all day everday sharing their thoughts and feelings would draw them close together, however, the way CP endlessly draws out their inability to function without the other, not to mention the overly sappy reunions nearly made me ill. The first time was acceptable. The second?
“Redoubling his speed, Eragon opened his mind to Saphira, removing every barrier around who he was, so that they might join together without reservation. Like a flood of warm water, her consciousness rushed into him, even as his rushed into her. Eragon gasped and tripped and nearly fell. They enveloped each other with an intimacy no physical embrace could replicate, allowing their identities to merge once again.”

I rest my case.
Spilly on 13 January 2009, 05:11 said:

Well, the talent to flawlessly link the parts doesn’t come immeadiately, I mean, look at me, I rely more on the pauses and thought processes of the characters to lead the story on from one scene to the other.

“Moben flinched as the knife came nearer and nearer to his face.
The man behind the knife leered. His eyes were a cold limpid blue, his skin had an unpleasant grey tinge to it that made him look like he was ill, and the scars that laced his face only adding to the affect.
“Richie” The man called to the driver of the car, “What do we do with this whelp?”
The driver shrugged, the car spinning out of control as he did so.
“Dunno, maybe ditch him?” The car levelled out,
The grey man in the passenger seat looked round consideringly at Moben.
“No” He said, his voice as dull and drab as his face,” He must have had some skill to be able to get into the Van. Perhaps the youngster will be of some use to us”
Moben looked back at the old man, terror making his eyes go wide.
This was not a good day.

It had started out ordinarily enough.
Get up, drag himself to school, try to bluff off being late, that sort of day.
He had come home late and was, as always, greeted with an empty house.
His, empty house.
He’d come in and dumped his bag on the step. Mum wouldn’t be back until about 6:30, so he had plenty of time to move it before she got back.
He sighed and went to the kitchen, flopping in front of the TV as soon as he had his soda in hand. And then he’d fallen asleep.

Perhaps that was what had started all of this off, him falling asleep in front of the TV. Not staying alert, not noticing that something was wrong. Not noticing when strangers unlocked the door and walked by the door of the living room, letting him be because he was completely oblivious of their presence, of them being in his house, taking his stuff.
He couldn’t believe he had not woken up when the conservatory smashed. Or when the TV dropped in front of him.

But then, how was he to know that the drink was spiked?

Alexei Greylan looked at the terror stricken boy in the back of his Van. His high security Van, he might’ve said before. But it couldn’t be as good as Mart had first made out if a mere boy could break into it and delve into the secrets he kept here.
But, maybe the boy was very talented with that sort of thing, if that was the case then it was good that he had him. He might be very useful indeed if that was the case, he smiled nastily.

Moben looked at the knife with a wary eye, ignoring the look that the scarred man sent him when he shifted over to the right.
“Look” He suddenly burst out, unable to hold back the words that may (Or may not) seal his doom, “What is this all about? Why have you taken me? And why the f*ck aren’t I dead??”
Al looked at the boy in surprise. He had some guts then, which is more than he’d thought he’d originally.
“Why do you ask?” He said silkily, closely studying Moben’s reaction.
“Because I want to know, perhaps?” Moben said, more coolly than he actually felt. Alexei looked at Moben, his face suspiciously blank. It was devoid of any emotion, and was therefore unreadable. Hmm… perhaps…”

This is a scne from the beginning of one of my books. A very crude one, but all the same, I do rely on the characters and pauses more than anything else. bSorry if tht dragged on a bit.
Spilly on 15 January 2009, 10:39 said:

Now that I’m thinking slightly differant, looking more at the way the sentences are put together, Im seeing some of the points people have been making. His use of language is a little… singular. I’ve been noticing some sentences in your post, lomax, that could definetly be improved on. (Not yours, CP’s)

But despite the slight lack of flow, CP’s inheritance series still has a valid plot as far as I can see. (Even though I havent got brisingr yet), and although shy-shy’s review does slightly point out more of the.. not so brilliant points, I’m sure there are some good points that have been outlined…

Still, looking at some of the previouis posts, I conceed that there are some flaws that have to looked into to make this a exemplary read, but as it is, it’s readable and preferable to other books. Atleast to me…

Hmm… Now I finally know I’ve gone mad… Anyway, some points there which I’ve just noticed.

:)
T.J. on 15 January 2009, 13:25 said:

Hey, i really liked this book, in fact it was one of my favorite books of all time! Maybe it had a few things that led nowhere, but that’s not the point. I’m willing to bet that he will explain it in the last book. but you have a right to your opinions.
SlyShy on 15 January 2009, 13:37 said:

Eh, I bet one day, after you read more books you’ll have a different favorite book.
B.S. on 15 January 2009, 17:00 said:

Having read through maybe 150 of the comments on here I am really shocked at how much some people dislike this book and in some cases the whole series. These people I feel, should be reminded that they were not forced to read any of these books at gunpoint (let me know if you were and I will forgive you :P) and if they disliked them to such an extreme as to truly believe they are crap, babbled by C.P. then i do not see what was preventing them from putting the book down and reading something more to their taste. I have no objection to constructive criticism but I have read too many comments just mindlessly accusing C.P. of being unable to string a sentence together let alone a book.

I am a big fan of the series and while I thoroughly enjoy reading these books, I am aware they aren’t exactly the height of modern literature, and therefore I’m not disappointed when they fail to reach Tolstoy’s quality.

Just remember that you are reading these books not because your life depends on it, but because you derive some pleasure from sitting down with and losing yourself for a while within Eragon’s world. Please try and be constructive and not abusive, because I find it painful to read harsh and uncalled for comments that really serve no purpose in improving anyones understanding of the flaws or good points of this book.

Some people are quick to pass judgement when they themselves would not have the determination to write such books or do anything of equal value. Especially not at the age of 15.
B.S. on 15 January 2009, 17:04 said:

P.S. He is a bastard for turning it into 4 books though! I was so excited by the thought of finally being able to know how it all turns out! I refuse to forgive him for it! NO! I REFUSE! OK OK!! But only if the last book is bloody brilliant! :P
Virgil on 15 January 2009, 18:16 said:

These people I feel, should be reminded that they were not forced to read any of these books at gunpoint

No one is forcing you to read the comments.. and the comments are free.

then i do not see what was preventing them from putting the book down and reading something more to their taste.

We have, but there are some things you just love to hate. Like informercials. So don’t bug us if we like to read something.

Please try and be constructive and not abusive, because I find it painful to read harsh and uncalled for comments that really serve no purpose in improving anyones understanding of the flaws or good points of this book.

Again, no one is forcing you to read our comments either. If we went to shurtugal.com we’d hear mindless praise for the book too, so let us revel in our insults.

Some people are quick to pass judgement when they themselves would not have the determination to write such books or do anything of equal value. Especially not at the age of 15.

He didn’t write it when he was fifteen, he started when he was fifteen. It took him three years to write, so we’ll average at 17. And, if you paid attention to the rest of the site, the majority of the people have written small novels (and some big ones) and posted them for review. And our books are almost of all equal or better value than his. He just had mommy and daddy publish them.
SubStandardDeviation on 15 January 2009, 19:18 said:

C.P. of being unable to string a sentence together let alone a book.
I have read the beginning of Brisingr, and yes, some of those sentences are pretty abominable.

Some people are quick to pass judgement when they themselves would not have the determination to write such books or do anything of equal value. Especially not at the age of 15.
True, some people are “quick to pass judgment” – but others have analyzed the books, and use their knowledge of the books and literature in general to back up their opinions. And still others, myself included, fail to see what this has to do with the merit of the books at all. Ad hominem attacks are uncalled for, make you look no better than the fantards who scream “UR JEST JEALUZ!!” It’s too bad that you ended an otherwise well-reasoned argument on such a note.
Kitty on 15 January 2009, 20:16 said:

Oh my lord.

If I hear “let’s see YOU write a book” one more time, I am going to start busting some neighbor heads.

Do you need to be a chef to know when food is gross?

Do you need to be an artist to know that this is a terrifying painting?

Do you need to be a scriptwriter to know when a line in a movie is cheesy?

Do you need to be a tailor to know when your jeans are shoddily-made?

Do you need to write bestselling novels to know when a book is bad?
B.S. on 15 January 2009, 20:16 said:

I was not having a go at the people who genuinely had an informed opinion about the standard of writing. I have a great respect for those people who take the time and effort to back up their opinions with some reasonable facts. I apologise to anyone who I’ve offended if they genuinely feel they have criticized C.P. with the best intention. Not just to call the book ‘crap’ because it wasn’t their cup of tea.

I will never argue that C.P. is amazing at writing sentences. He isn’t and I can see that. But he has still managed to create a fascinating set of books that have raised much interest and debate. This in itself is a feat. I respect him for it, as do I respect those people whose criticism holds some value.

Analyzing and criticizing is something I myself enjoy, and I like reading what other peoples opinions are on subjects. The only time I don’t enjoy it is when some people overstep the line and use forums and other forms of discussion to abuse.

Anyway. I hope I’ve sated all you tigers out there, about to pounce on me for remarks. :P

One last thing in response to Virgil. Despite the fact that it took C.P. three years to complete Eragon, I’m still amazed that a 15 year old could begin to formulate a book like it. No matter what people say about him, his knowledge of vocabulary at that age, was far beyond what most adults can use. If only he could learn where to appropriately place those nice, long words. SIGH :D
B.S. on 15 January 2009, 20:20 said:

I meant to say my remarks
Sorry. Bad previewing. :-)
Lomax on 15 January 2009, 20:38 said:

I suppose my biggest problem with the book is this:

Details in a writer’s work should be like seasonings or dressings on a meal, with the meal being the plot in a story. The reason they are there is to enhance the plot, move it forward, and make it that much more enjoyable. In my opinion, CP dumps the entire ranch bottle (possibly even two) on one serving of salad.

“I think I will have a little salad with this dressing.”
SlyShy on 15 January 2009, 21:15 said:

Lomax,

You have a good point, although I disagree with part of what you said. Details aren’t entirely for the purpose of driving plot, but rather to lend believability to the story. Good story tellers can bring up vivid details, that make the story seem authentic. I’m echoing a sentiment found in Reading Like a Writer, but also in Reservoir Dogs. Good details make the setting feel real. The problem with CP’s details is that they are bland, and don’t really describe anything of importance. Details should help making the setting interesting, but his largely don’t. At least, not his details about a knob of wood (as found in Eragon).
Virgil on 16 January 2009, 13:38 said:

One last thing in response to Virgil. Despite the fact that it took C.P. three years to complete Eragon, I’m still amazed that a 15 year old could begin to formulate a book like it. No matter what people say about him, his knowledge of vocabulary at that age, was far beyond what most adults can use. If only he could learn where to appropriately place those nice, long words.

So.. all that means is CP can use a thesaurus properly. And its quite obvious that he does in many cases. Just about everything else has the symptoms of a fan fiction author with some name changes.
SlyShy on 16 January 2009, 13:42 said:

“Properly” is a bit contentious.
MegaB on 16 January 2009, 16:23 said:

Wow, Will that was a great way of putting it and I wholeheartedly agree. I think many people have stopped reading a book as entertainment these days, they scrutinise things very closely and whilst that is a good thing to do, we may be misunderstanding the author here.

Paolini is an author who began at 15, an age at which many profess high aspirations, wanting to be like their idols and people they respect. For Paolini, it seems he respected many authors and wanted to be like them, wanted to use some of their own ideas with twists only he had thought up. Whilst that may seem a ‘cop-job’ and would degrade his status in our eyes, we need to think of his circumstances.

He was a teenager who loved literature, that much is apparent in his writing. His passion and love for his writing gave him a base to work off of, and no matter what anyone says ‘Eragon’ was a solid debut for his series. He portrayed his feelings well for one so young and the fact that he has continued, speaks greatly for his enthusiasm and enjoyment when writing.

I can relate to that, and I hope as amateur authors, everyone else can too. I love to write, to express my own experiences and mental images as eloquently and beautifully as possible. I wish to share those pictures, those shining vistas, with the world around me and you can tell, you can feel that Paolini is trying his utmost to do that.

It may be a rocky road, but it’s a road nonetheless. It will have a destination and I want to be able to experience it.

Oh and Kitty? I totally agree with you! Want to borrow my sledgehammer for that? XP
SubStandardDeviation on 16 January 2009, 17:53 said:

Details should help making the setting interesting, but his largely don’t. At least, not his details about a knob of wood (as found in Eragon).

Good point. What’s the point of spending a paragraph describing a quarterstaff if it’s exactly like every other quarterstaff I’ve seen? (And the sword-making chapter. Oy.) Details should highlight the unique properties of the author’s world (which irritates me when they aren’t there – what the bloody hell is a “sword-scythe” anyway?) or of the characters. For example, in the beginning of Eragon there’s a brief description of a shelf in Ergy’s bedroom. While useless and forgotten the next chapter, I still found it interesting, because it doesn’t intrude on the plot and it shows something about Eragon – he likes collecting random junk, and thus would have a reason for walking over and poking the shiny rock, instead of running the hell away from it. Likewise, if the protagonist’s personality is reflected in him knowing the species of plants along the road, or in the “quirky” way she dresses, show us that – don’t tell us what every tree or dress or sunset looks like just because you can.

no matter what anyone says ‘Eragon’ was a solid debut for his series

Interesting review I just read:
http://www.sfreviews.net/eragon.html

Paolini writes concise, confident prose, refreshingly devoid of stylistic indulgence. […] Once his talent for developing original ideas catches up to his talent for storytelling and writing, he will be well on his way to becoming one of the genre’s A-list names […]
Alas, it didn’t happen.
Kevin on 16 January 2009, 18:38 said:

Devoid of stylistic indulgence? Is that supposed to be a joke? The glorious wings of dusk swept across the golden beaten plains in vibrant hues seemingly sent from heaven above blahdy freakin’ blah.

You know how there are bad Hemingway contests? Someday there will be good Paolini contests.
Joshua Byers on 16 January 2009, 21:18 said:

Only until i read this review i didn’t think that people would actually publish slander that is only based on an opinion of a person that obviously has no idea how to actually read a book while being able to read between the lines and enjoy a good story and to use there IMAGINATION to further enjoy what they are reading. I will admit the books do take a while to read due to their immense amount of detail BUT that is the thing that makes the young Paolini so unique. the details he gives unlike most books he gives so much detail that the reader can actually almost see a perfect picture of what is going on in the book, (basically almost witnessing the the story happen first hand in there thoughts) a trait that Ive only seen in 3 other series. All in all Inheritance is the second best series i have ever read only being surpassed by the 7 book crown jewel of a series written by the greatest writer in history known as C.S. Lewis this almost perfect series is known as The Chronicles of Narnia. Inheritance in only 3 books has more pages and more detail than any book ever published.

obviously you must not be very intelligent because i am 14 years old and i was able to comprehend this amazing story better than you did so next time you decide to attempt to assault a good book maybe you should read it a couple times.
SlyShy on 16 January 2009, 21:45 said:

Only until i [sic] read this review i [sic] didn’t think that people would actually publish slander that is only based on an opinion of a person that obviously has no idea how to actually read a book while being able to read between the lines and enjoy a good story and to use there [sic] IMAGINATION to further enjoy what they are reading.

And you are talking about slander? The irony slays. Also, nice run on, you might want to invest in some commas. To top it all off, that sentence should have been “Up until…” because the way you’ve worded it currently, after reading this review you decided people wouldn’t publish slander.

I will admit the books do take a while to read

Actually, they were very quick reads…

due to their immense amount of detail BUT that is the thing that makes the young Paolini so unique.

He’s twenty-five. He isn’t fifteen anymore, unless he discovered the fountain of youth.

the details he gives unlike most books he gives so much detail that the reader can actually almost see a perfect picture of what is going on in the book, (basically almost witnessing the the story happen first hand in there thoughts)

You say this is imagination, I would argue the opposite. Imagination is being able to imagine the scene for yourself, you shouldn’t need to be hand-held by the author in order to envision a room. Good writers use vivid details where it improves the story, and leaves the rest to the reader. Because skilled readers can deal with it, and fill in the relevant minutia by themselves. Since this subject seems to come up with an absurd frequency, I guess I’ll write an article about it.

a trait that Ive only seen in 3 other series. All in all Inheritance is the second best series i [sic] have ever read only being surpassed by the 7 book crown jewel of a series written by the greatest writer in history known as C.S. Lewis this almost perfect series is known as The Chronicles of Narnia. Inheritance in only 3 books has more pages and more detail than any book ever published.

Read A Song of Ice and Fire, and then get back to me. Let me guess, you’ve read Wheel of Time, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, and Inheritance? Broaden your horizons a bit. I also recommend Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin, if it helps.

obviously you must not be very intelligent

Ad Hominens are not a valid form of logical argument, but thanks.

because i [sic] am 14 years old and i [sic] was able to comprehend this amazing story better than you

Oh, don’t worry—your age shows. And being blind to a book’s faults isn’t “comprehension”.

did so next time you decide to attempt to assault a good book maybe you should read it a couple times.

Funny you mention it.

Book Times Read

Eragon 5

Eldest 3

Brisingr 4

In parting, I thought I’d offer you this valuable visual guide.
Kitty on 16 January 2009, 22:02 said:

“Inheritance in only 3 books has more pages and more detail than any book ever published.”

That’s a good thing?

Look, fella—volume does not equal quality. Neither does insulting this site’s collective intellect mean we will take you seriously. If you feel like picking fights, register for the forums.
SlyShy on 16 January 2009, 22:04 said:

Any book ever published is quite the hyperbole besides. It is competing with Encyclopedia Britannica, after all.
The One Formerly Known as Juni on 16 January 2009, 22:29 said:

“It is competing with Encyclopedia Britannica, after all.”

snickers
Addie on 16 January 2009, 22:49 said:

And the OED. Can’t forget them.
Virgil on 16 January 2009, 23:35 said:

obviously you must not be very intelligent because i am 14 years old and i was able to comprehend this amazing story better than you did so next time you decide to attempt to assault a good book maybe you should read it a couple times.

Ho, boy. So, because you are 14 and can read, we are not intelligent? And yes, I thought you were 12 at the most when I read your brick of a paragraph, 14 was a bit of a surprise.

And we can comprehend the story easily. It wasn’t meant to be complicated, it was meant for people like you. We just don’t like it.

We also don’t attempt to assault it, we do. You attempt to assault us with ad hominem (sp?) attacks fueled by your ignorance.

Also, ‘good’ is your frame of reference. I don’t like C.S. Lewis personally, but many think its good.

We have read the books plenty.

Also, do you even know what slander means? Technically what we’re doing is libel, if it was somehow illegal to point out the flaws of a book.
Legion on 17 January 2009, 02:44 said:

the details he gives unlike most books he gives so much detail that the reader can actually almost see a perfect picture of what is going on in the book, (basically almost witnessing the the story happen first hand in there thoughts)… Inheritance is the second best series i have ever read only being surpassed by the 7 book crown jewel of a series written by the greatest writer in history known as C.S. Lewis this almost perfect series is known as The Chronicles of Narnia.

Speaking of Inheritance, Narnia, and your argument about more detail = more amazing book, I present to you a further comparison:

Here’s a simpler comparison:

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe = 256 pages total (HarperCollins, paperback, 2005)

Eragon = 768 pages total (Laurel Leaf, paperback, 2007)

As you can see, CS Lewis doesn’t use nearly the same amount of detail (aka wordage) that Paolini does as shown by the sheer length of their novels. What was that about an author needing to use copious amounts of words to paint pictures for the imagination of the readers? Because I could have sworn that according to you, CS Lewis, despite being your #1 favorite ahead of Paolini, fails to capture your imagination as much as Paolini did because his sentences are shorter.

In conclusion:

Congratulations, Mr. Byers, you just shot yourself in the foot by citing evidence that contradicts your own argument. Please post more so I can rip it to shreds again. And feel free to also expand on how people here “obviously” don’t know how to analyze (“read between the lines”) books so you and I can further demonstrate to the general public just how much more intelligent you are compared to us. =]
Kitty on 17 January 2009, 02:48 said:

Come now, don’t scare him off. It’s not good for anybody’s reputation.
MegaB on 17 January 2009, 08:11 said:

DANG! Legion, you just shot the poor 14 year-old down! And not just with a pistol! That was like….a bazooka to the head!

Ouch!

Mr Byers, I can see where you’re coming from in your passionate defense of Paolini, however there are some things that you must take into account. The same standards of writing we would apply to ‘Eragon’ cannot be the ones we apply to his sequels. Why, you may ask? It’s quite simple.

Paolini was 15 when he started writing the series, an incredibly young age to be sure and his debut was nothing short of amazing. His story was coherent and interesting, his language and grammar was far above that of his age, and all these things were huge positives in his favor as an author.

However, as most humans tend to do (including you, I hope), he grew with time, but that’s debatable with regard to his writing style. He has improved, definitely, yet overall he has not. He still uses purple-prose to little effect and he seems to take joy from describing the most boring articles in the world. The fact is, he is now a mature writer and that should be reflected in his writing which it has not.

Regards,
MegaB
Ri on 19 January 2009, 05:59 said:

Whoa!!!

Mr. Byers appears to be on his high horse. Slander indeed!! Everybody is entitled to an opinion and SlyShy makes a few good points, even though I don’t agree with them. I am also a fast reader and 14 years old. Calling somebody else unintelligent just because they don’t agree with your opinion reeks of arrogance and false superiority.

I thought that Brisingr was quite good. I also write my essays in excruciating detail (though there is a lot of difference between an essay and a book!), so I don’t mind the adverbs and adjectives. Though the whole Roran sub plot does slow things down a little.
The REAL josh byers on 19 January 2009, 16:11 said:

sorry my little bro got on my computer and wrote a comment in my name please disregard anything he said (PS, hes only 10)
josh byers on 19 January 2009, 16:22 said:

I was reading this review and left the room when my ten year old brother got on the computer. I actually agree with this slyshy’s review and also my brother (the one who wrote the message that’s been made fun of a considerable amount in the last few days) would like me to say that when he said any book ever written he meant any book ever writen by C.S. Lewis.
Kitty on 19 January 2009, 17:52 said:

Aha. Ahahaha.

I don’t know whether or not to believe you. I’ve been witness to too many people who gave the little-brother/cousin/whatever excuse.
Legion on 19 January 2009, 17:57 said:

when he said any book ever written he meant any book ever writen by C.S. Lewis.

Puh-leeze. I don’t think your brother even knew what he was trying to argue, then or now. And clearly he has no idea what my response was talking about either. So let me summarize, for the sake of his vast intellectual capacity, in simpler terms:

He said that Inheritance is amazing because it’s filled with superfluous amounts of detail, arguing that inclusion of vast amounts of detail means superior book/author. Then he said that CS Lewis’ Narnia series is better than Inheritance.

I put the two texts side by side and demonstrated that Narnia is written with significantly less detail, yet your brother still ranks it as the better series. He contradicted himself and by doing so, ended up invalidating his own argument. His own ranking of Inheritance as second to Narnia proves that more detail doesn’t necessarily mean better book.

Don’t tell me now that he actually meant something other (which, by the way, doesn’t even make sense) than what he wrote. His higher-than-my level of intelligence should tell him that neither real life nor the internets work that way. So Mr. Byer’s brother (if you really exist), please quit while you’re behind and return when you learn how to better articulate yourself.
josh byers on 19 January 2009, 18:04 said:

I know it does not make any sense, I think he just wanted to try to clarify what he meant, although I do agree with but you have to remember he is only ten years old.
Legion on 19 January 2009, 18:21 said:

Alright, although we don’t usually allow exceptions on age card based plays (I’m looking at YOU Christopher Paolini), I’ll let your brother slide, even though he said I lacked intelligence. ^.
MegaB on 19 January 2009, 19:28 said:

Hmm, age has absolutely nothing to do with it; I know pre-teen’s who could argue a pretty good case for or against Paolini’s work!

Legion, that was his opinion though, not everyone shares the same opinion. I myself, feel that somethings that are described in excruciating detail actually make things a lot clearer. For instance, Tolkein is famous for his lengthy portrayal of scenery and it really helps to build a picture of exactly what the author is seeing whilst he is writing. Paolini does manage to do that infrequently, although most of the time it’s useless; like a knob of wood or a door-handle.
B.S. on 19 January 2009, 20:54 said:

While I do not by any means, consider C.P. to be anywhere near to C.S. Lewis’ standard (C.P. is actually free-falling down the list as new authors spring to mind), I do find his books entertaining, and enjoy them greatly.

Also, I don’t think you will ever get an Inheritance Cycle fan on here, who can argue a decent case against what you say. The reason being, any intelligent reader of C.P. can see that most of the points you are making are actually bang on. For most of you on here, these flaws ruin the book. For us fans though, we enjoy the mostly-entertaining story-line, and habitually skim read the excessive descriptions.

MegaB. I agree with you on your Tolkien comment. Lord of the Rings however, is not the easiest read for most people. C.P. is a walk in the park by comparison. This is what I believe, attracts people to it. Easy to read, a half decent plot, mildly interesting characters and the occasional twist, make it an entertaining read, despite its flaws.
B.S. on 19 January 2009, 20:58 said:

It appears you are going to have to debate amongst yourselves, until a genius fan comes up with an argument that blows you critics into next week. Sadly I fear this will never happen, and your comments will continue to strike true forever….(sad sigh)….

:P
Addie on 19 January 2009, 21:15 said:

Actually, the Lord of the Rings is a surprisingly easy read, much easier than Inheritance.

The reasons for this:

Paolini’s prose is stiff and awkward. It doesn’t flow well; the sentences are often jarring. And it goes on and on without covering very much subject matter.

(Often, this is. Sometimes it is done better. It isn’t always consistent.)

Tolkien’s prose, on the other hand, is clear and flowing. There is a lot of it, yes, but that’s because there is a lot of story and a lot of settings. And it is formal, and yet still well used. The formality adds flavor, but does not cost elegance.

What I’m trying to say here is, Tolkien used his many words gracefully and clearly, while Paolini often doesn’t.

I think the main reason many readers think LotR is not a walk in the park is simply that it is a big book. You would be hard-pressed to read it in a day. Taken in small bits, though, it’s fine.

Same applies to any book, really.
scary_viking on 19 January 2009, 22:33 said:

Aye, if you can skim-read something and understand all it has to offer while only really taking in half the words or so, it just means there’s nothing there.
B.S. on 20 January 2009, 20:06 said:

I agree that C.P. uses far too many words to describe things. But I still stand that LOTR is not an easy read for most people. I know few people who have managed to keep interest throughout the 3 books. While this may just be a small sample, it does show LOTR is a tougher read than the Inheritance Cycle.

I’m not saying tougher is worse. By no means. LOTR is a more satisfying read overall, but it’s not the sort of book I would pick up for some light entertainment. Whereas I would take C.P’s books on a plane journey to Greece.
Cory on 22 January 2009, 17:29 said:

I think you may have been a little harsh in your review although over all C.P. could still us a lot of improvement. I also agree with the statement that Eragon is not at all an inspiring character. I want him to win his war with Galbatorix, but if only for the sake of the multitude of people being oppressed and the souls of the Dragons. I thought that Oromis and Glaedr dieing did a multitude of good for the book as far as impact (though I was sad to for them die because I did love those two characters). Also SlyShy my website is up here (scribblingmadness.wordpress.com in case it doesn’t show up)… it contains a book that is a work in progress and as of right now I am rewriting the first eight chapters, but if you would like (it would be of great help to me) could you read through a chapter or two and give me some advice? Be as harsh as possible if you do because it is the only way I will be able to better my writing.
Cory on 22 January 2009, 18:11 said:

Ah I forgot to thank you for writing the review, my apologies. It seems that many people who were trying to defend the book seemed to attack your intillegence and the others who had commented. However, I think you put a lot of thought into the review and that you should be thanked regardless of whether or not other people see themselves as ‘more intelligent’ especially when said people cannot type a well thought out response and capitalize the letter I at the same time.
Lord Snow on 22 January 2009, 18:24 said:

Hey there Cory. If you would like, you could submit your writing here.

This way many readers can help with it. :)
Cory on 22 January 2009, 18:25 said:

I would also like to thank you for writing the review, since I forgot to do so earlier. Too many people who read reviews and disagree, even in the slightest, immediately jump to insulting the intelligence of the annalist and the people that agree with him/her. Personally, even though I think you may have been a little harsh, I think you put a lot of thought into your review and that it has many valid points. So, thank you for writing it. One more thought, since I cannot contain myself. People who insult others intelligence should make sure they grasp the fundamentals of grammar and spelling. A typo here and there are fine (because hey we all do it) but when you cannot even bring yourself to capitalize the letter I or the beginning of sentences/fragments your argument (even if it were valid) might as well be a mute one for all the impact it had.
Cory on 22 January 2009, 18:32 said:

(sorry about the double post) And thank you Lord snow I will attempt to do that, though my computer is being a pain. (Otherwise known as USER ERROR)
Somerandomreader on 16 February 2009, 22:55 said:

I am suprised you guys are complaining about him trying to make a living. I just was checking a website to see if it was a good book and all I found was people crying because they dont know how to close a book. I would like to see any of you write 2 500 page books and still be able to write another 784 page book. At least he is trying.
LiquidNitrogen on 16 February 2009, 23:06 said:

The page/word count doesn’t matter. I could fill up an entire book with as many letters as a wanted, and it could be a total disaster. The point to keep in mind are thus:

1. Paolini has compared himself to literary geniuses such as Tolkien, and should be held to equal standards.

2. Fans are just raving brainlessly about it. If the book was actually worth some literary merit, we wouldn’t have to be so harsh.

If Paolini just wanted to make a living, why didn’t he just go to college? His ‘writing’ is essentially adjective upon adjective upon adjective upon adjective. Who cares? His characters are less than likeable, plot lines are cliched, and logic flawed. Who doesn’t think such a book deserves critique?
SlyShy on 16 February 2009, 23:16 said:

I am suprised [SIC] you guys are complaining about him trying to make a living.

Yeah, and I was surprised my friend almost got fired from her job because she offered to let us give her questions to ask Paolini when she was set up to interview him. Surely that was justified.

I just was checking a website to see if it was a good book and all I found was people crying because they dont [SIC] know how to close a book.

Surely crying is a mis-characterization.

I would like to see any of you write 2 500 page books and still be able to write another 784 page book. At least he is trying.

Again with this. Do I need to be a chef to tell when food tastes like dog turd? No. The only relevant experience is tasting dog turd. As it happens, many members of this site are published in magazines or journals, and have written substantial amounts of fiction. We just weren’t so fortunate.
Marketa11785 on 17 February 2009, 16:18 said:

I don’t like criticizing anyone, but sadly I have to say that CP’s books did not reached the height of quality that I expected. I was lured to the series by some of my friends, who tought that the series is undeniably a work of a genius. To any person, that (after reading these lines) would like to bring typical objects like “you didn’t had to read it”, “i like to see YOU to write 700 pages long work” or that “it’s not coherent to analyze if CP can create a sentence”, there’s a simple solution. Just read the book, and don’t go to forums like this, because there’s always a chance (even with TRUE geniuses) that somebody won’t like it. If you are a grown up, you’ll read the comments and leave with viewpoints of other people, and with insight of other people’s tastes. Believe me, I am fully aware of the truth that nobody forced me to read the books, however, I am a thorough reader (I EVEN forced myself to finish the Baldur’s Gate books)and as much as I would hate reading some book, I would complete it, so I can truly try to find something good about it. To the opinion that we didn’t wrote a 700 paged book, let’s just say that WE weren’t trying to pretend that we are a second Tolkien. Another way to look at it is that any person that patches up a long book should be hailed as a hero, because of the simple truth that he flinged together a novel. (I don’t know about others, but I find a little distate for that matter. Though I did not enjoy readying it, like with everything else that I survived through, there’s always new things to learn, new experiences and we should not say that we lost hours with this piece of literature. Everything is good for something, and we just have to live with the fact, that Inheritence wasn’t THAT good. Let’s cherish the little that was nice in it and be on our merry way to other books.
Blake on 25 February 2009, 20:36 said:

wtf……… Hurry with the next book i need to read it!!!!!
Blake on 25 February 2009, 20:41 said:

hey buddy if you didn’t like the book then just shut the hell up. We don’t care for your dumb remarks.
Blake on 25 February 2009, 20:42 said:

By the way great book cant wait for the next one!
Lachlan Mac on 1 March 2009, 03:26 said:

Good for you, Chris. You spent 10 years of your life writing a series which started out derivative and juvenile, moved to slowly paced and stereotypical and is now shamelessly employing filler chapters, mainly full of random gore scenes, to build the scene for the soon-to-be anti-climatic fourth book of the “trilogy”. I hope you enjoy your riches!! :@.

~ There is no justice in this world, no justice at all …
Kitty on 5 March 2009, 22:59 said:

“If you don’t like it, don’t read it.”

Why can’t the same logic apply to fans who come here—“If you don’t like it, close the window”?
Gildor on 6 March 2009, 19:27 said:

T-T-T-T-Triple Post!

Sorry, had to do it.
Tim on 9 March 2009, 18:12 said:

I agree with Kitty: if you don’t like the books, no one is making you read them. Keep the negative thoughts to yourself. All you are doing is telling someone what you think and not letting them come to their own conclusions about it. And the “filler chapters”, Lachlan Mac, develope the story and the characters in a way a “straight-to-the-point” story could never achieve. I think the next book will be a great book.
The Drunk Fox on 9 March 2009, 18:58 said:

Tim, I’m not sure you quite understand what Kitty was saying.
Kitty on 9 March 2009, 20:22 said:

@ Tim: Thank you for completely missing my point.
SlyShy on 9 March 2009, 20:59 said:

Hey look, a relatively articulate Inheritance fan. I can’t wait to read your no doubt insightful comment.

I agree with Kitty: if you don’t like the books, no one is making you read them.

What’s this? You make up for your ability to write complete English sentences by falling reading comprehension? Good god, I swear there will never be the perfect fan who can actually come on here and argue a point correctly. You certainly don’t agree with Kitty, seeing as how she is one of the most frequent contributors to this site.

In fact, in a stroke of brilliant pants-on-headness, you got her point entirely backwards. I’ll explain.

Keep the negative thoughts to yourself. All you are doing is telling someone what you think and not letting them come to their own conclusions about it.

Her point was that you aren’t keeping your negative thoughts to yourself about this website, and nobody is forcing you to read this website, and every time you come on this website to complain about what we are doing, you are acting like a self-oblivious little kid.

Plus, how do people expect Paolini to improve if nobody tells him what is wrong with his writing? For most authors I know, they have a trusted individual, of an editor, who will tell them exactly what is wrong with their writing, so that their writing can get better. Obviously in Paolini’s case the editor is too busy praising his child genius (protip: he’s 25 now, or maybe even 26) to actually pay attention to the lyrical beauty of the prose.

When you “fans” go around telling people to shut-up about his flaws you are both trying to deny Paolini an opportunity to improve as a writer, and you are showing your terrible disdain for the freedom of speech. Keep up the good work. I’m sure Paolini really appreciates the way you hate him, and want him to have no chance at self-improvement.

And the “filler chapters”, Lachlan Mac, develope

You spelled “develop” wrong. Nice one.

the story and the characters in a way a “straight-to-the-point” story could never achieve.

Right. Because a “straight-to-the-point” story would do it so much better. You are correct that a “straight-to-the-point” story could never achieve Brisingr‘s level of pointlessness. This argument would hold much more sway if the characters in Brisingr were actually well developed characters, but they are quite flat, and in Eragon’s case, ill-defined.

I think the next book will be a great book.

I think the next book has the potential to be a great book if Paolini is able to step back from his writing and take a look at what he has done. And then honestly evaluate what needs to be fixed in his writing, and goes through several drafts of his book.
Spanman on 9 March 2009, 22:15 said:

Marry me, SlyShy.
Reggie on 10 March 2009, 00:37 said:

In attacking Tim, you all have embarrassed yourselves by misinterpreting the works of one of the finest satirists of our generation. Well played, Tim. Well played.
Altalus on 6 April 2009, 20:06 said:

Well I think that Paolini stills has to learn to diversify the character’s personality’s if you look attentionaly Roran ,Brom and Eragon have the same qualities ,same thing for Nasuada and Arya .If you compare Brisingr to Twilight or one of the Harry potter ‘s books ,Brisingr loses badly ,But you have to understand, Paolini had to do a book where he explains and prepares the final book ,so maybe we will see a greater improvement in the 4 book ,Maybe the character’s will grow more and more interesting .That’s only suppositions so we better wait for the 4 book
Legion on 6 April 2009, 20:29 said:

Well I think that Paolini stills has to learn to diversify the character’s personality’s.

That’s basically saying Paolini needs to learn how to write characters. Which is basically saying Paolini needs to learn how to write books. =P

Anyways, I’m not going to hold my breath for some miraculous turnaround in Book 4. He’s had Books 1 through 3 to do it and if he was capable of it, he would have done it already.
Puppet on 6 April 2009, 21:12 said:

@ Blake, Tim, and all other Eragon/trolls here.

You guys are acting like you own this site, and really if you think everybody here should shut up then leave. Nobody’s forcing you to read this site, you know Shurtugal has a forum so if you want to talk about Eragon just go there and stop whining like a 5 year old.

Sorry this site just seemed to have a lot of whiny fans today.
Altalus on 7 April 2009, 20:59 said:

Don’t get me wrong Legion Paolini knows how to write but I felt like all the character’s seem to have a common thing in their personality .The Description are wonderfully written and I hope you going to read the 4 book cause your going to miss something ,even though its by curiosity you have got to read this book .
Spilly on 27 April 2009, 05:09 said:

In some ways, I agree with all of you. Its certainly true what SlyShy said, (and this bit I know from experiance) it can sting like hell to have your work picked to peices infront of a large crowd of people, whether its online or in your home(Family, in my case, which is so much worse because you’ve got to live with them afterwards).
And it certainly isn’t going to help Paolini refine his writing talents/skills/style to be hated for daring to publish the Inheritance Cycle.
Paolini has the potential to become a great writer, and heaven knows, has done well to come this far and manage to get the Inheritance Cycle published atall.
It’s certainly more than I can do, and Ive got a bedroom stuffed to the brim with old and disguarded or otherwise in progress/unfinished stories, which in most cases are years old. Im probably not helping by adding to them in a constant stream of new stories, but there we go.
@Tim;
A ‘straight-to-the-point’ story has the enormous potential to bore me out of my skull by delivering me straight to a predictable plot with very little, if anything, twisty inbetween, anything vaguely strange or unexpected.

Out of the two, I’d rather have the Inheritance Cycle any day.

As to the characters, I think that they are far too maleable – If someone (Lets call him… Bob (no offence meant to any Bob’s present)is charcteristaically a sadistic nutter, then Bob should stick to his character through the whole book/cycle, not have it change as the plot demands in a matter of seconds.

Ok…For me, its a good series for what it is. Yes, it can be improved upon a good deal, but then, nothing is perfect, and there’s bound to be conflicting opinions on it, as everyone holds a slightly (radically in some cases) differant point of view on everything.

“Chin up, Paolini. You’ve done alright!” Is my sentiment.
R D Young on 29 April 2009, 12:16 said:

I think your comments are valid and I am reading them because so many of my students are reading this series. However, the validity of what you say, especially when you are critical, would be easier to digest if you used correct English: here you need no apostrophe: Inheritance Cycle has always been about it’s Bildungsroman epic; also do not end your sentences with prepostion, i.e. on.
SlyShy on 29 April 2009, 12:49 said:

Thanks for pointing out that mistake—it’s been fixed.

Not going to lie though, your comment was difficult for me to parse. :P

As far as prepositions go, I’m well aware of what they are, so while I’m appreciative of your effort to illustrate them (by the bye, you meant “e.g.” and not “i.e.”) I’m ignoring your advice. The “rule” about ending sentences with prepositions has never been relevant in modern English. The Chicago Manual of Style backs me up here.¹

¹ http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Prepositions/Prepositions04.html
Juniper on 29 April 2009, 12:52 said:

I end some sentences with prepositions for the same reason I sometimes embellish a quote with more than just the critically suggested “she said”/“said John”, and the same reason I try to boldly split infinitives whenever appropriate.
SlyShy on 29 April 2009, 13:06 said:

Additionally, nobody says

“On what did you step?”

and everybody says

“What did you step on?”

In writing whatever sounds natural is the way to go. At least, if you want to connect with your audience.
Legion on 29 April 2009, 15:00 said:

@R D Young: You’re a teacher, eh? I’m actually quite surprised. Since you chose to take the time to leave a comment, I would have expected feedback of more substance and insight from someone like you than just nitpicking on the tone of voice Sly chose to use in writing his review. I would be more interested in knowing things such as:

- Why do you think your students find Inheritance such a good read? What is it that they find so appealing about the books?

- Do you think that Inheritance is the types of books that teachers should be encouraging students to propogate as “good” literature? Or are you glad that your students are even interested in reading big books?

- As a teacher who probably knows a thing or two about writing, what are your personal thoughts on Paolini’s construction of books?

Perhaps my expectations for teachers are too high, but hey, you’re the one who decided to throw that little factoid out at us. And knowing that you’re a teacher now, I hold you to a higher standard than the usual vistor. As it stands, I’m not impressed at all. In fact, despite your claiming to be a teacher, I’d equate you with the 11-13 year old spammers who come here and post things like, “BRISINGR WUZ AWESUM!! UR JUST JEALOUS! Btw, u forgot a comma in da 4th sentence.”

I think your comments are valid and I am reading them because so many of my students are reading this series.

You were off to a good start there so please expand further on the above rather than inanely picking on subjective uses of grammar if you choose to post again.
Spilly on 30 April 2009, 07:31 said:

R.d.Young – would you rather have a perfectly structured and presented essay complete with indentations (Dont quote me on that bit) which rattles on about every detail in horrendously long paragraphs?
If so, this isn’t the site for them – it isnt intended to give people the right idea about the english language, merely to give people a look into the new stuff and give them an idea of what its like.

As is, I think slyshys review is good – its nice to have something readable, informative, that isn’t so grammatically and punctuationally correct its like reading a science essay backwards on something youve never heard of.

Still, you do have some points, and they would be valid were you pointing this out to your students in an english class, or on a sight where it was an essential thing to have this.
Spilly on 1 May 2009, 03:28 said:

Sry, I wasnt in the best of moods when I wrote that. I didnt mean to be quite as offensive in my style, or stereotype you.

:)
PET on 29 May 2009, 17:05 said:

This short review points out the exact problems the book has.

The frist book … was ok to be honest. It wasn’t so long, it had some interesting things.

Second book … DAMN That was boring. The end was just a bit ok.

This book … just hurt me low intelect. I feld my IQ had a – (minus) in front of it.

I’v read the book in Romanian so this is a rough translation from Romanian to English.

SPOILER
—————————-

Roran just killed 193 soldiers. The magician Carn comes to take care of his wounds:

- Come on, it’s time to see your wounds. – No! says Roran. There are others who may need more help that I need. See them first. – Roran. You can die from that cuts if I don’t stop the bleeding. It will only take a … – I’m fine, says Roran. Leave me alone! – But look at you! Roran listen to him and he got scared. – Ok but do it fast.

This is just a rough translation I made. Maybe some of you can point the exact page + the exact text.

Well this was the STUPIED dialog I have ever read. Not to mention this happened with the ex. Roran’s commander who lost his arm.

THere is always something to comment. Eragon comments on orders he recive. Roran comments on orders he recive. Always commenting around.

Also this is the type of the book you know the good will win. You know this from the first book.
MightyRawwoR on 2 August 2009, 22:06 said:

DUDE THE BOOKS ARE AWESOME WHO CARES IF THEY AREN’T THE BEST WRITTEN. AND ALL THE RANDOM BITS ARE THERE FOR A REASON!
Puppet on 2 August 2009, 23:30 said:

That reason being…?
RandomX2 on 5 August 2009, 15:36 said:

You’ve got your heart in the right place with this review, but I think the main issue that needs addressing is morals and subliminal messages.

I know I made a comment on this page a year ago defending Brisingr, but I’ve taken your advice and read some classics that have changed my perception of the Inheritance trilogy. Keep in mind my previous comment still stands in terms of defending Paolini’s content.

My biggest gripe with Brisingr right now is that it is just a story. I really couldn’t derive any decent morals from it. Compare this to a book like Wilde’s “The Picture of Dorian Gray”, in which you can have 10 people read it and get unique essays from each of them if you ask them to summarize the main message. Wilde criticizes social customs (aristocratic system, as well as views on gays in the Victorian era), discusses philosophy on how to be happy in life (ups and downs of a hedonistic lifestyle) and so on. Wilde integrates these ideas so well into his storyline that to remove them would be to render the story void.

Paolini creates an enjoyable story, but he has little to no respect for his own plot. He is willing to add or remove elements of his story if it makes the reading experience more interesting, as seen when he added a new Shade simply because he felt the ending of Brisingr needed more power. I feel that (and you’re free to disagree here; this is my opinion) that the quality of a book can be subjectively measured and broken down as follows:

1) Interest generated in direct storyline
2) How well integrated author’s message is w/ storyline
3) Effect on reader’s life after reading

Paolini’s story was certainly interesting, but it did not influence me in any way after I read it. To summarize, I think he created a good story, but a superficial one with little depth.

THAT is the problem with the Inheritance cycle.

You may argue that the storyline itself is also poorly designed (which I suppose you do, looking at your review). But to be honest, I think your review was rather partial. You seem to hold a kind of bias against Inheritance, and if you do so you will find faults where they don’t exist or where they are negligible (I think I may have mentioned that previously, too). In any case, I think it all comes down to opinion and perception (in terms of storyline), and I think that should’ve been a focus in your review.

—RandomX2

P.S.: In terms of morals and messages in Inheritance, am I the only one drawing a blank?
P.P.S.: This probably isn’t a very coherent/consistent comment. I think oversleeping and summer inactivity have taken away any writing abilities I may have had… hopefully you’ll get the gist of what I’m typing.
P.P.P.S: I still like post-scripts.
Juniper on 5 August 2009, 16:00 said:

RandomX2

Wow, this is proof what reading the classics can do for a person. Yay! Literature over flash fiction! Truth prevails over the lie, the light has dawned, good has triumphed over evil! ..cough

You make an ecxellent point regarding Inheritence v. A Picture of Dorian Grey. I forgot the plot of Eragon after two weeks of putting it down. Then I found the handy trick of just remembering a certain other plot since they were the same. Dorian still haunts me. I’ll NEVER forget that book, or the feelings I felt while reading it.

I would make a case for the bad quality of Eragon, but I think your comments are valid and don’t mind agreeing to disagree. Thanks for coming back! Join the forums if you would like to discuss other fiction, dogs versus cats, or any other topic with the rest of the imps here.

Sincerely,
Juniper

P.S.- In terms of morals, no you are not alone in seeing Inheritence fails to promote any message, at best. I even see some “bad” morality being portrayed. Killing an unarmed soldier who was pressed into service and begging for his life? Yeah, great morals.

P.P.S.- Your comments are very articulate.

P.P.P.S.- Obviously. :)
RandomX2 on 5 August 2009, 22:27 said:

@Juniper

I laughed out loud reading that first paragraph. Flash fiction = evil, eh?

I made an account for the forums but I still can’t get in. Is every account submission actually checked? That seems like quite a bit of work.

—RandomX2

P.S.: I don’t know about that soldier… the message could simply be that war forces us to ignore our personal ethics. You become inhuman, in a sense. In fact, I think that’s a common theme in the Inheritance cycle. But then again, I doubt Paolini was thinking along those lines as he was writing. Even if he was, he has no experience with war (to my knowledge). As a result, that moral would not be his genuine belief but something learned from others through social interaction. That renders it useless, because we all know normal society in the Western world is made of idiots. :)
P.P.S.: Minus this community, of course. Hehehe
P.P.P.S.: You know, we could start a trend with these post-scripts!
Juniper on 6 August 2009, 00:15 said:

RandomX2,

Glad to be a source of amusement.

Sincerely,
Juniper

P.S- Have you read the actual excerpt where Eragon chases the man down? It’s floating around the internet somewhere.
P.P.S.-Yeah, Paolini does tend to make his messages big and broad, such as he wouldn’t know from experience. Your guess on the “moral” of the killing is as good as any.
P.P.P.S- Until we get banned for abusing it. Slyshy is enigmatic and mostly invisible (sort of like Galby) but his minions are a real and imminent threat. I would list their names but you may be one of them. ;)

- is shot from behind –
RandomX2 on 6 August 2009, 01:05 said:

@Juniper

I’ll let the post-scripts talk :)

—RandomX2

P.S.: Ah, now the REAL content of the comments. What’s with the implication there in your first post-script? I don’t like the feel of it… [insert suspicious glare emoticon]
P.P.S.: Love the quotes around the word “moral”.
P.P.P.S.: How can you ban one who does not have an account? And I am NOT a minion… or am I?
P.P.P.P.S.: This might get out-of-hand soon, so I think I’m going to quit the post-scripts and stick with some normal text. Speaking of SlyShy though…

@SlyShy
About a year has past since you made your review. I’m rather interested in knowing the answer to the following:

Has your opinion of Brisingr changed at all over time?

I must disappear now. My planet needs me…
Juniper on 6 August 2009, 08:14 said:

You won’t get banned. That was a joke. But you might get your soul sucked out.

Oh, there was no implication. I guess I thought you hadn’t read the book. I haven’t and won’t until I see a free copy somewhere. The scene was just disturbing, I thought. It made Eragon a villian in a way.
Elfishguy11 on 25 August 2009, 01:55 said:

Your an idiot, this was a great book
Jeni on 25 August 2009, 07:34 said:

You are an idiot,

You’re an idiot,

Sheesh.
swenson on 25 August 2009, 21:50 said:

@Juniper – I own it. I can send you an e-book version if you want it.

@Elfishguy11 – If you’re going to criticize someone else for criticizing writing, do try to use good grammar/spelling, dearie. You give those of us who don’t hate Eragon a bad name.
RandomX2 on 30 August 2009, 22:31 said:

Maybe it was a fail troll comment?
Julia on 7 September 2009, 15:56 said:

I like eragon and eldest as for brisingr i have only started reading it i’m only on page 448 and by the way i am only 11! So please don’t use those swear words. Also some of your comments on here are hurtfull for some of us who actually like the series!
Julia on 7 September 2009, 16:00 said:

and by the way slyshy or whatever it is i think you don’t give an actually good arguement against brisingr because so far i do see some flaws as to how he does describe some things to much but i still think that you should give a better arguement:( Comment soon! PLEASE I NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE!:(
Virgil on 7 September 2009, 18:20 said:

[watches from a dark, spotlit conference room]

Hmm.. another one has posted. Who should we dispatch to clean up their messes after our awesomeness has liquified their brains..

Okay, kidding. But please, rephrase your argument, because its very hard to read without proper punctuation or capitalization. But you’re welcome to say whatever you like.
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 18:45 said:

Julia, this review wasn’t written to hurt your feelings. It was written because SlyShy wanted to tell the world what he thought of Brisingr. So please stop taking it personally.

BTW, I’m glad to see that there’s at least one 11-year-old out there who doesn’t like swearing. But bear in mind that the people who run this site and most of the people who frequent it are teenagers or young adults. Therefore, much of the content is geared toward older teens and might not be suitable for 11-year-olds.
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 18:46 said:

I like eragon and eldest as for brisingr i have only started reading it i’m only on page 448 and by the way i am only 11! So please don’t use those swear words. Also some of your comments on here are hurtfull for some of us who actually like the series!

Hey, I’m only 12, yes it’s true some of you might find our comments hurtful, but the same can be said for the fans. Look at some of their comments, not all of them are very nice.

and by the way slyshy or whatever it is i think you don’t give an actually good arguement against brisingr because so far i do see some flaws as to how he does describe some things to much but i still think that you should give a better arguement:( Comment soon! PLEASE I NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE!:(

I’ll listen to your views, and present my views.

I liked Eragon, the first book was a fun read despite the flaws, in my opinion Eragon was the best written of the three. Eldest I found boring, it dragged on, the characters were bland and flat. Brisingir I found the worst, Paolini made the characters ridiculous. Killing 200 people? Really? Even with guns it’s hard to kill that many people in a single battle. Brisingir was just a filler, I don’t see why he had to make 4 books, it seems like Paolini is writing for fame in Brisingir, in Eragon I felt he was a guy who liked to write. I respect that. And that’s what made me like the book. I just wanted Brisingir to be over with, the characters weren’t interesting, the story long and pointless, his sentences are extremely long and over descriptive. His words are complicated and that made the book hard to read. I’d be happy to recommend some books to you, I won’t force my views on you, finish Brisingir, then read some other books, and compare them.

That’s my argument, I’ll be happy to hear yours.
Snow White Queen on 7 September 2009, 19:35 said:

I didn’t see any swear words in Sly’s review. They probably turned up in the comments, in which case I second’s Danielle’s observation that this is a site geared to older teens.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 19:41 said:

Ok I see what your all saying and if you would just tell me some of the books puppet then I would really like to hear some. But yes I see that it is geared to teens and such so yeah i see your points and so far the book does seem a little boring but i’ll see what happens.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 19:44 said:

BTW reply soon I have to go to bed soon because i have school early tomorrow and I have to get up at 6 so reply soon!
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 19:53 said:

Golden Compass, Three Musketeers, Alice in Wonderland, Harry Potter, Hope was Here…

I’ll try to think of some more.
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 19:58 said:

The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Treasure Island, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court, Frankenstein….
Julia on 7 September 2009, 19:58 said:

I already read all the Harry Potter series and The Series of Unfortunate Events which were also good but I have a feeling none of you like that series. Anyways, thanks for replying so quickly and I was thinking of reading the Golden Compass. Reply quickly!
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 20:03 said:

Personally I just found The Series of Unfortunate Events a bunch of repeats. :P

Anyways, try out those books, hopefully you’ll like them. :)
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 20:03 said:

I haven’t read A Series of Unfortunate Events, but I have read Harry Potter and found it to be an excellent series. If you’re a Christian or have Christian leanings I wouldn’t recommend The Golden Compass as the author is an atheist and his stated goal is to convert people to atheism. In other words, it’s very anti-Christian, anti-church and anti-God.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:03 said:

I own the Chronicles of Narnia but i don’t really like them that much Danielle, sorry.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:05 said:

Yeah well I’m sorry but I don’t go to church but I do believe in God and thanks for replying and so far we reply at the same time so isn’t that funny:) haha. Anyways, reply real son please.
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 20:05 said:

So? I’m not offended that you don’t like them much. I was just telling you what I’ve observed/heard about Phillip Pullman and giving you a warning. Take it or leave it.

I would suggest you try some of the other books Puppet and I recommended, though.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:09 said:

Ok I will but I don’t think my school library or my towns public library has them. And you should try reading A Series of Unfortunate Events cause they’re interesting I think but then again I don’t know the author is Lemony Snicket that isn’t his real name though and I’ll take your advice about Phillip Pullman. And have you ever heard of the Artemis Fowl series they’re very good in my opinion. Reply soon please
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 20:09 said:

Shrugs

I fond Golden Compass the least atheist as the other two, I recommend it for the excellent characters.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:12 said:

I don’t know but I’ll think about it anyways, sorry Danielle and Puppet please try to reply soon about the books I asked about.
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 20:13 said:

I haven’t read Artemis Fowl.

Uh, you said you have to go to bed soon, right? Why don’t you slow down, take the time to use proper punctuation (because it’s easier for people to read), then go to bed when your parents tell you to. This site will still be here when you wake up. ;)
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 20:14 said:

I haven’t read the Artemis Fowl series, though I’ve heard the books were very good from other users on this site.

Yeah… Don’t want to miss school. D:
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:16 said:

Uh technically I don’t have to go to bed now. By the way show me please what the proper punctuation would be because I thought I was typing alright. :(
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:18 said:

Sorry I was just excited someone actually replied back. Don’t comment on that please. But seriously please show me the “proper puntuation”.
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 20:19 said:

Your version:
Ok I will but I don’t think my school library or my towns public library has them. And you should try reading A Series of Unfortunate Events cause they’re interesting I think but then again I don’t know the author is Lemony Snicket that isn’t his real name though and I’ll take your advice about Phillip Pullman. And have you ever heard of the Artemis Fowl series they’re very good in my opinion. Reply soon please

Properly punctuated version:
Ok, I will, but I don’t think my school library or my town’s public library has them. And you should try reading A Series of Unfortunate Events ‘cause I think they’re interesting. The author is Lemony Snicket (that isn’t his real name, though). I’ll take your advice about Phillip Pullman. And have you ever heard of the Artemis Fowl series? They’re very good in my opinion. Reply soon, please.

It’s all about periods, commas and using them in the right place.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:22 said:

Oh, sorry then, what do you think about Brisingr. Well have you read it first of all? Do you think it’s boring or what they say(the conversations above) about it true?
Danielle on 7 September 2009, 20:26 said:

I liked Eragon. I read Eldest and found it stupid, contrived, slow and just plain derivative. I predicted all of the plot twists and didn’t like Paolini’s potshots at religion (read the conversation between Arya and the dwarven priest for an example) or Paolini’s newfound obsession with nudity (the naked elves with the dragon tattoo). I didn’t read Brisingr because I knew it’d be even worse than Eldest.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:27 said:

Reply soon, please, my mom might take the computer from me any minute. I know that sounds like I’m 4 but I can’t help it.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:30 said:

Oh. Well what conversation between Arya and the dwarven priest. I don’t remember that. And I see your point about “the nake elves with the dragon tattoo”. I’m currently on page 351 in brisingr and I think that since I’m only 11. But, I see your points and I just want to point out that I need permission in school to read Brisingr and I’ve been reading the town’s copy. Brisingr is very graphic starting in the first 20 pages. Reply soon, please.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:35 said:

Eldest is slow it took me(please don’t find me stupid when I say this) 2 months to read. I was so frustrated I nearly threw the book to the ground!
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 20:42 said:

I don’t find that hard to believe actually, it’s 600+ pages and extremely boring.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:43 said:

True and I was very frustrated because I thought that I was stupid or something. Reply soon, please.
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 20:47 said:

You can stop saying “Reply soon, please” now. :P

Eldest was boring, I can’t remember much about it, but Brisingir was just annoying, the characters were ridiculous.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:51 said:

Sorry I’m just worried nobody will reply! So far the only character that I see that’s annoying is King Orrin but who knows I’m only 348 pages into the thing. Can someone please tell me about the discussion between Arya and the dwarven person.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 20:54 said:

BTW How long did it take you to read it. No offense but I’m just curious.
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 21:07 said:

None taken. About a week.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 21:10 said:

Wow I must be stupid then because you saw how long it took me!
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 21:16 said:

Oh. I thought you were talking about Brisingir when I said it took me a week. Eldest probably took longer then Brisingir.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 21:16 said:

Can you do me a favor and type as soon as possible this time I seriously do have to go to bed soon, sorry not to sound harsh and I’m not sarcastic when I say that.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 21:17 said:

Dang do I have bad timing and whew! But oh wow a week with brisingr wow!
Puppet on 7 September 2009, 21:19 said:

I should probably go now, nice talking to you.
Julia on 7 September 2009, 21:20 said:

By the way that’s not how you spell Brisingir. It’s correct spelling is Brisingr with no I between the g and r. Sorry just felt like saying that
Julia on 7 September 2009, 21:20 said:

Nice talking see you
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 15:14 said:

Haha, I also like my books with titles I can spell.
Jeni on 8 September 2009, 15:16 said:

And pronounce…
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 15:37 said:

Come back when you’ve finished those books, then see what you think of the Inheritance Cycle.
Julia on 8 September 2009, 16:45 said:

Hey anyone here.
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 17:01 said:

Yeah, I’m here. Need something?
Julia on 8 September 2009, 18:17 said:

Oh hey sorry I’m late
Julia on 8 September 2009, 18:42 said:

gotta go bye
Snow White Queen on 8 September 2009, 19:21 said:

Wow, I missed a whole conversation.

Anyway, how do you pronounce ‘brisingr’? I always figured it was ‘bri-sinj-er’.
SlyShy on 8 September 2009, 19:30 said:

Actually, it is bris-inger.
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 19:32 said:

Paolini isn’t very specific…

Chris: Brisingr? Exactly like that: Brisingr. I would recommend the audio book recording of Eragon. I don’t agree with all the things that Gerald Doyle did but it’s a wonderful reading as a whole except for one or two incidences, every dwarf word, ect is correct. Because I worked with the woman who produced the audio book and we made sure it was correct. There’s also a chance that he may be reading all the extra material for the deluxe edition and adding that on for the deluxe edition of the audio book. But I’ll tell you the extra material is awfully dense and you may have trouble getting through it.
Jeni on 8 September 2009, 19:41 said:

I always pronounced it Bris-in-GRRRRR.

(Only an elongated R when I’m in a bad mood).
Snow White Queen on 8 September 2009, 19:44 said:

@ Sly: Yeah, that’s what I meant to say except I suck at phonetic spellings-out.
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 19:45 said:

I pronounced/said it the movie way…

BRISINGERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
Julia on 8 September 2009, 20:16 said:

Briss ing rrr
Arya on 8 September 2009, 20:19 said:

SlyShy please explain to me some of your comments about Brisingr. Please I am only 11 so I may not understand everything.
Arya on 8 September 2009, 20:22 said:

Also it’s pronounced like briss ing er. Sorry if this isn’t the correct spelling.
Puppet on 8 September 2009, 20:29 said:

Another 11 year-old?

Arya, could you be more specific?
Snow White Queen on 8 September 2009, 20:58 said:

Look what you’ve done, Puppet!

Just kidding. XD

@ Arya: this article was meant for general review…but like SlyShy said in the article, if you’d like a more specific breakdown, I think he provided links to it.
Arya on 9 September 2009, 18:00 said:

Oh. Puppet can you tell me what to be more specific about, please. And by the way Julia is my sister. We’re twins. So, yes “another 11 year-old.”
Arya on 9 September 2009, 18:04 said:

@SWQ thank you for telling me that. I appreciate it. I am also reading Brisingr I’m ahead of my sister though. She’s only on 348. I’m on 400, literally, and so far I agree with her it’s pretty good to me. And we had a bet to see who could finish first and people said I could finish it in 2 days. (I’m a very fast reader)
Puppet on 9 September 2009, 18:10 said:

Oh. Puppet can you tell me what to be more specific about, please. And by the way Julia is my sister. We’re twins. So, yes “another 11 year-old.”

SlyShy please explain to me some of your comments about Brisingr.

What specific comments do you want explained?

And by the way Julia is my sister. We’re twins. So, yes “another 11 year-old.”

Ah. :P
SlyShy on 9 September 2009, 18:57 said:

So, twins are using the same email address now? That aside, I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have, but you will have to be more specific.
Arya on 9 September 2009, 19:00 said:

Our mom won’t let us use our own, and sure. How are the “scenes cobbled together”? I don’t see that in the book so far.
Julia on 9 September 2009, 19:12 said:

I also have a question, it’s not about the review though, personally if you weren’t writing a review or writing anything about Brisingr what would you personally think about it?
SlyShy on 9 September 2009, 19:15 said:

Cobbled: Crudely or roughly assembled; put together in an improvised way.¹

I recommend reading Story by Robert McKee to see where I am coming from. You’ll learn a lot about better writing.

Basically the problem is this: the great majority of scenes in Brisingr do not accomplish anything. They don’t further the plot, and they don’t develop characters. They also don’t promote symbolic motifs, or any of that. They are just there, but they aren’t making the story better.

Imagine if someone telling you a campfire story, and they kept pausing the actual story to talk about some little detail. If he’s trying to tell a spooky story, but he keeps sidetracking to describe glasses of milk, the shape of clouds, knots of wood, etc. then people would get bored, wouldn’t they? People would think that person was a bad storyteller. That’s basically the problem with Brisingr. It’s a poorly told story, all issues of style and setting aside.

¹ http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cobbled
Snow White Queen on 9 September 2009, 19:29 said:

I recommend reading Story by Robert McKee to see where I am coming from. You’ll learn a lot about better writing.

I should do that myself, actually. Thanks for the tip, Sly.
Arya on 9 September 2009, 20:01 said:

Ok, I’ll think about it. Right now though I have another question. Do you think any 11 year-old can read 348 pages in 2 or less days?
Arya on 9 September 2009, 20:05 said:

@SWQ, I’m not sure if you already said this before but, do you have any suggestions of books that are, please, 7th grade level and down. Since I’m not exactly the “Shakespear” type. (Same for my sister)
Julia on 9 September 2009, 20:07 said:

Sorry if some of those words aren’t spelled right.
Puppet on 9 September 2009, 20:14 said:

Do you think any 11 year-old can read 348 pages in 2 or less days?

Anybody can read 1000+ pages per-day if you just have a steady attention span.
Arya on 9 September 2009, 20:16 said:

Oh.. I feel like an idiot then. :(
SlyShy on 9 September 2009, 20:16 said:

The whole concept of grade levels for books is a misguided idea. Young children aren’t any less intelligent (in the sense of innate ability, as opposed to learnedness) than adults, so there is no reason you should be watering down your reading matter just because you are young.

If more educators realized that “reading level” is a harmful concept, you probably wouldn’t have had to waste your time reading Inheritance. Some books might be hard to read if you are lacking the necessary vocabulary, but the whole point of reading is to learn, so you might as well learn the new vocabulary as you read. Read “grown up” books. There’s nothing to be afraid of. If you don’t understand something, just ask a parent. That’s why you keep them around, after all.

All that said, there are practical considerations to be had. If you haven’t much experience reading, it wouldn’t be entirely good to being with Shakespeare.

Try out the following titles:

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, Hope was Here, The Westing Game. They are ordered in decreasing difficulty.
Arya on 9 September 2009, 20:21 said:

Ok. I was barely able to read Brisingr at school. But then again I could have gotten it at the public library. The school thinks Brisingr is to graphic so it’s young adult till 7th grade. But I can still read it. And Ok I’ll try those(if I can find them).
Arya on 9 September 2009, 20:39 said:

I’m going to go read. Try to comment soon.
Julia on 9 September 2009, 20:46 said:

@SlyShy What do you think about the book PERSONALLY AS IN DON’T GO EXPLAINING IT!
Julia on 9 September 2009, 21:06 said:

Do you any of you remember when Roran went fighting with Snowfire, well I don’t quite get how he just indented, basically, and went to the battle?
Julia on 9 September 2009, 21:08 said:

Pg 402
Snow White Queen on 9 September 2009, 22:11 said:

@ Arya: I’ve been trying to recommend some books to my ten-year-old brother- maybe you’ll find some interesting ones that you’d like to pick up yourself.

- the Artemis Fowl books- Eoin Colfer – the Percy Jackson books- Rick Riordan – Island of the Aunts- Eva Ibbotson (there are many other books by her you might like to check out) – Peter Pan- JM Barrie – The Witch of Blackbird Pond – Johnny Tremain- Esther Forbes (?) – The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle- Avi (Avi is another great author, I really recommend that you check him out) – Number the Stars- Lois Lowry (The Giver and Gathering Blue are two other great ones by her) – Ella Enchanted- Gail Carson Levine – The Goose Girl- Shannon Hale

I’m sure there are many others that I should have added, but this should be enough for you, at least for now. Like Sly said, don’t limit yourself to what you think a girl your age can read. Challenge yourself, and you might be pleasantly surprised. (This is where I’m having trouble convincing my brother XP)

Hopefully you found something you like! (Oh, and read now while you can- once you’re in high school it’s much harder to find time!)
SlyShy on 9 September 2009, 22:14 said:

Julia, my personally I thought the book was contrived tripe.

I took a look at that page for you. It’s just a little sloppy writing, on his part. He makes this kind of mistake often in his fighting scenes. See for reference.
Snow White Queen on 9 September 2009, 22:17 said:

The book was contrived tripe.

Ooh, now I really have to read it!
Puppet on 9 September 2009, 23:28 said:

The Witch of Blackbird Pond – Johnny Tremain-

I second those.^^
Snow White Queen on 9 September 2009, 23:37 said:

Oh, for clarification’s sake, The Witch of Blackbird Pond is not by Johnny Tremaine.

(It’s by Elizabeth George Speare, if I remember rightly)
Arya&Julia on 10 September 2009, 08:59 said:

Ok. I’ll try those. I’ve read some of Gail Carson Levine. Fairest, Ella Enchanted, and The Two Princesses of Bamarre.(I think)
Arya on 10 September 2009, 19:14 said:

Ok am I like the only one who ever gets on this thing? !
Snow White Queen on 10 September 2009, 19:19 said:

No…time differences are a big factor, as well as the fact that most frequent people who come on this site are in high school and beyond- and that means we have work to do, unfortunately.

And if you liked books like Ella Enchanted, I would definitely recommend Shannon Hale. Princess Academy and The Goose Girl are good books.
Arya on 10 September 2009, 19:34 said:

I saw Princess Academy in a library once but I couldn’t get it because it was in a library that I don’t have a card for. And I forgot about the whole high school and lots of homework stuff. I’m on the eastern standard time so I’m the earliest apparently.
Arya on 10 September 2009, 19:35 said:

P.S. Julia doesn’t get on anymore.
Arya on 10 September 2009, 20:48 said:

BTW on pg. 417 it says, “Orik stopped at the edge of a thin crack that defaced the granite they stood on and said, What see you now?” I don’t understand when it says what see you now. It makes no sense to me if it does to anyone else please tell me and explain it.
Puppet on 10 September 2009, 20:56 said:

What do you see.

Yeah… Paolini can be confusing sometimes.
Arya on 10 September 2009, 21:57 said:

Yeah that’s what I thought and I just substituted the words with what do you see now instead.
Snow White Queen on 10 September 2009, 22:02 said:

Paolini can be confusing sometimes.

I think he’s trying to be archaic, a la Tolkien.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 11:35 said:

“archaic”? I have no idea what the heck that means.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 20:53 said:

What’s “a la Tolkien?”
SlyShy on 11 September 2009, 20:59 said:

Archaic: Archaically – In language, an archaism (from the ἀρχαϊκός, archaïkós, “old-fashioned, antiquated”, ultimately ἀρχαῖος, archaîos, “from the beginning, ancient”) is the use of a form of speech or writing that is no longer current.

“a la” (as in “a la mode”) is a French phrase meaning, roughly, in the style of.

In the future, if you want to look up the definition of a word, say, vaudevillian, then just Google “define: vaudevillian”.
Sera on 11 September 2009, 21:14 said:

Darling, see, there are these wonderful books called dictionaries. They contain lists of words with explanations of what the word means. I find them rather useful.

There’s a reason they exist, sweetie. Use them. Doesn’t even require much energy—just type it into Google, like Sly suggests, or fetch a dictionary and flip through a few pages. Or, you could just logically derive a word’s meaning through context and/or etymology, using that squishy thing between your ears.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 22:06 said:

@Sera I know what a dictionary is and please don’t say darling and that stuff. It sounds sarcastic and I’m not stupid! I’m just 11 I don’t no french! I do know some spanish though. And I have a brain for your information missy!
Arya on 11 September 2009, 22:08 said:

In case you haven’t noticed I’m typing and reading aren’t I! You should try using yours!
Arya on 11 September 2009, 22:12 said:

Sometimes you might notice you get some pain in your head that means your thinking.(which must not happen very often) It means you actually have a brain.
SlyShy on 11 September 2009, 22:16 said:

Arya,

Even if Sera’s comment sounded mean or condescending (which it did), that’s no justification for responding the way you did. That was childish. I’m sure you won’t make that mistake in the future. There are so many more things in life that matter more than a name someone calls you, so there’s little point in reacting poorly to mean spirited-ness. The best action you can take is simply to move on and take it in stride.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 22:20 said:

Ok, I get hot-headed easy, next time I’ll try to keep it in. @Sera Sorry for the comments I said.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 22:29 said:

I just got past the part where the Az Swelden rak Anhuin clan got banned. Well technically I’m a hundred pages past that literally. But I think the fight was interesting enough.
Danielle on 11 September 2009, 22:56 said:

Um….

Okay….

I’ll admit, Sera’s comment was kind of rude, but Arya’s wasn’t a lot better. As a recovering Internet debater, I must conclude that both suffer from a common affliction known mainly to Internet debaters—one called Taking Everything Waaaayyyyy Too Personally. The prescribed treatment is usually 1) taking a step back and realizing that what someone on the Internet says about you really bears no importance on the grand scheme of things and/or 2) developing a sarcastic sense of humor so you can both laugh at the person who insulted you and insult them back.

Dr. Danielle is OUT.
Julia on 11 September 2009, 23:08 said:

I still read stuff on the website you no. I no I wasn’t better but what do you exspect. Never mind about that. I admit I shouldn’t have taken it so personally.
Danielle on 11 September 2009, 23:33 said:

shrugs Just giving you some advice, that’s all. In the past I’ve gotten all bent out of shape because I took what someone said on the Internet too personally, and the only person it really harmed was me. Now I just keep in mind that I’ll probably never meet that guy who called me an idiot in person—and that’s fine by me. There’s no way you can win a fight with a person like that anyway. Had Sera responded to your post, odds are she would’ve been just as sarcastic and mean as she was before. Had you kept going, she would’ve just gotten cattier and cattier until you either broke down and called her stupid and/or decided to leave for good. Stuff like that has happened to me before, and it’s not fun. Trust me.
Arya on 11 September 2009, 23:48 said:

Yeah your probably right.
Spilly on 15 September 2009, 07:07 said:

@Julia and Puppet.

I’m 14, and yes, I agree, some of the language used on this site is over the line. But believe me – you’ll hear worse at school.

I didn’t find reading the series particularly boring – but then I took about 2 days to go through the first book and about a week of (very distracted) reading to read the third.
It’s not a brilliant series, but I enjoy reading it for the simple reason that he has tried. He’d done well to even get it on the shelves and selling in my opinion. My numerous stories probably won’t even make it that far – and believe me, we’re talking over 90 double sided pages long here.
Painful to try and edi, believe me. :)

Artemis fowl is a good series as original plots go, although I haven’t read them for a couple of years. Their pretty well written and have some interesting twists and turns.

@Julia.

Your reading and writing will improve vastly with the years if you read alot and write alot.
I’m living proof of that. Although my finges hate me, it’s nice.
Arya on 15 September 2009, 16:19 said:

I just finished the third book and it only took me 6 days. I’m not exactly sure of what I think about it. But for right now I feel it was ok some of his writings really got to me sometimes. Like when he wrote mine instead of my for just about everything.
Puppet on 15 September 2009, 18:10 said:

Could you provide examples?
Spilly on 16 September 2009, 03:30 said:

Example’s of my writing?
That could be hard – most of it’s on paper. Waste of ink and trees I know as they live in my bedroom – but that’s how I prefer to write.
I could type one up for you, Puppet, if you wanted to read one.
Spilly on 16 September 2009, 05:35 said:

@Arya

Am in england so know how you feel about time difference. Apparently 12:00 is 2 in the morning – and that isn’t possible unless school starts earlier than I’d ever dreamed, in which case I’ve been blindly getting up at… somewhen around 7 in the evening…
Forgive the maths – am still waiting for Zombification to wear off from waking up at 6:30, to an alarm which refuses to shut up even when I turn it of.

@Snow White Queen
Have been reading back and agree with you – I read anything that piques my interest, fighting scenes or no, goey romance not really exciting but ok if theres something going to go wrong with it or challenge it later on.
I agree about the time thing aswell – but my main problem is the lack of books. The library at my school is about as big as a small supply closet and has about as many books as one.
As such I am in desperate need of a new supply.

Age shouldn’t hold back what you read – although some things should be read later rather than sooner.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you should be reading goey romantic books in which the strikingly and stupidly innocent princess is always saved, simply because you’re eleven. If you enjoy that sort of book, it’s fine, I just can’t understand it for my life. :)

Homeworks a killer for time, so do enjoy that time when you can read, Arya, as it disappears under a mountain (1-3 a night, depending on the lessons) of homework later on.
Puppet on 16 September 2009, 13:43 said:

@ Spilly

I was talking to Arya about the Mine and My thing. :P
Arya on 16 September 2009, 21:24 said:

@Puppet an example is:
pg. 477 “When the bout passed, she pushed herself upright and held the back of the hand against her opposite cheek and swayed from side to side, moaning,Oh, mine son . . . mine beautiful son.” That’s the only 1 I have time to look for right now. I’m sorry if this isn’t enough but I know it happens once in the meeting for the new king(who turns out to be Orik). Sorry spoiler!
Arya on 16 September 2009, 21:28 said:

Oh wait I just found another example on the same pg.
“I wish I might break bread with him, along with mine husband, Bauden, but it is not mine time to sleep in the catacombs of Tronjheim, and Morgothal refuses entry to his hall to those who quicken their arrival.”
I’m sorry but please reply soon I do not have much time.
Arya on 16 September 2009, 21:41 said:

If any of you have heard of the book Dragon Rider than please fill me in on what is actually interesting about this book because so far I see nothing intersting but my frined told me to keep reading it so I will but please tell me if anything is actually interesting. If none of you have read it then please try to because I doubt I’ll finish it in a very quick time.
Spilly on 17 September 2009, 05:59 said:

The name rings a faint bell.
Doesnt happen to be by Zizou(or variations of) corder, does it?
Spilly on 17 September 2009, 06:24 said:

Golden dragon (made by magic to hunt dragons) the baddy, blue dragon the goody, rider called Ben, strange furry creature with cat ears (called a brownie) which likes mushrooms?
Snow White Queen on 17 September 2009, 19:34 said:

It’s by Cornelia Funke, no?

I found it pointless too.
Arya on 17 September 2009, 19:39 said:

Yeah I haven’t found out who the Golden dragon is yet.
Thanks a lot for telling me and the brownies name is soller or something. The blue dragon is firedrake and yah Ben.
Arya on 18 September 2009, 20:20 said:

Is melachony when they get aching in their bones when it like rains or something?
Jeni on 18 September 2009, 20:55 said:

Arya, this link might help you. Alternatively, you can try one of these

;)
Puppet on 18 September 2009, 21:17 said:

Arya,

If you need to look a word up just use a dictionary, it keeps the review from clogging up with question’s not directly related to the book. :)
Arya on 18 September 2009, 23:30 said:

Right, sorry habit, so what did either of you think of it if you read it?
Puppet on 19 September 2009, 09:07 said:

Brisingr?

Again, I found it extremely boring and long, I didn’t feel like it had accomplished anything. And I don’t see why Paolini had to split the book and make a 4th one, seeing how Brisingr is almost completely made up of pointless fillers.
Arya on 19 September 2009, 10:25 said:

No, I meant Dragon Rider if either of you guys read it, and I felt the book accomplished the promises of Saphira and Eragon. He went to Oromis and Glaedr,Saphira remade the dwarves beloved star sapphire, he got his sword, and that’s all I can think of at the moment. But, I felt that he was well plotted.
Arya on 21 September 2009, 19:32 said:

I found out who the Golden Dragon is now.
Arya on 24 September 2009, 16:01 said:

Wow you guys are really bad at replying, aren’t you.
Spilly on 25 September 2009, 03:31 said:

No – just waiting for something to say.
I have read it – somewhere in the mists of time – but I really didn’t pay attention to the plot twists. I just wanted something to read while I waited for a certain book to come out so I could buy it.
I thought the plot was ok, if a little meandering.
But I still haven’t got the book I meant to buy, so achieved the aim brilliantly, lol. :)
Puppet on 25 September 2009, 13:17 said:

Wow you guys are really bad at replying, aren’t you.

cough

Look above you.

I haven’t read Dragon Rider, so I didn’t want to clog this up with useless comments. And I haven’t been on my computer for a few days, time zones are also a factor.

Don’t feel offended if we don’t reply immediately. because there’s a 99.9% chance somebody will, eventually.
Arya on 1 October 2009, 17:26 said:

Yeah your right, puppet, and I’m sorry for not replying also.
Spilly on 2 October 2009, 05:02 said:

It’s fine. As puppet said, many people can’t reply imeadiatly or don’t want to until theres something valid for them to say.
Do what I do – shut the window down, forget it for a couple of days, remember, then check.
It saves a lot of disappointment and time wasted on anxious expectancy.

As I said, I thought it was ok, if a little meandering. Wait until you get to the end. Then it gets both funny and slightly ridiculous. :)
Arya on 3 October 2009, 17:19 said:

In which book? Dragon Rider, well if it’s that book I finished it like 6 days ago.
Spilly on 5 October 2009, 03:30 said:

Yes, I was talking about Dragon Rider. Never mind then.
I dont think Brisingr was pointless. In need of improvement and a little more excitement, sure, but not pointless.
Oleg on 6 October 2009, 18:49 said:

Nice posts there – thank’s for the interesting information.
Arya on 9 October 2009, 20:14 said:

Yes I agree. I have to say I think I’ve matured a little while looking over this website.
Spilly on 12 October 2009, 07:22 said:

Me too. Intelligent comments and a book I’m interested in. Heaven for me.
Better than a chat room any day. :)
Arya on 15 October 2009, 18:53 said:

I agree. I have to ask you something. What do you think about the book Inkheart. I’m reading it right now and I only have 200 pages to go.
chris on 18 October 2009, 09:20 said:

I just finished the book and I am speechless.
And i dont understand why you are so surprised by the overwhelming amount of descriptions he uses. The first 2 books had there own fair amount, this is a bigger book. It is quite clear how far Paolini has come in his technique and his ablility to develop characters.
I think it was exceptional and of course it needs work, no book exists that is flawless.
A proper review examines positive and negative, both of which are present here
Arya on 18 October 2009, 13:04 said:

Thank you for your comments. I agree on the fact that no book is flawless.
Danielle on 18 October 2009, 16:05 said:

Exceptionally bad, yes. Brisingr (can you put in a couple vowels PLEASE?) was a disjointed, rambling snoozefest of a book that I didn’t even get through.
Arya on 18 October 2009, 20:36 said:

I finished the book in a month and that was just because it was so boring I was trying everything to avoid reading it. Also are you talking about the title?(Brisingr) If you are please say so.
Puppet on 18 October 2009, 21:38 said:

She did say so…

I agree with Danielle, the book was boring, the long descriptions did nothing but make me lose interest in the book. And they just get in the way of the story.
Danielle on 18 October 2009, 22:26 said:

Yeah….IMO, descriptions should draw you into a story, not distract you from it. It’s like decorating a house. Some people like it minimalistic; some like it ornate; some like ultra-modern; some like vintage. But whatever you decide to do, the decorations you choose should always complement the natural beauty of the home, not draw your attention away from it.
Greg on 19 October 2009, 19:25 said:

One reason that the battle between Murtagh and Oromis took place off screen is because the story is told from first person, Eragon and Roran. He could have altered the story to fit in that scene, but I don’t think it would have flowed as well. Even then, the battle would have to have been told from third person, either Eragon or Roran’s eyes, again. That would have made for a very flat battle. For one so technical I should think you would have realized this.
SlyShy on 19 October 2009, 19:33 said:

I don’t think you understand what first person is. Because Inheritance doesn’t use it at any point. Good try though.

Learning sure is fun, isn’t it?
Snow White Queen on 20 October 2009, 22:22 said:

Hey, other than that, he made a lot more sense than most people who disagree with us.
Arya on 21 October 2009, 21:02 said:

You have a point there SWQ.
Spilly on 22 October 2009, 06:23 said:

@Arya
I thought Inkheart was OK – it was well written and more original than most books I’ve read. Theres another one after it as well if you get into Inkheart. If your looking for books in the horrer/fantasy, you could try the Night World series by L.J.Smith.
If your into Vampire romance then theres another series done by the same auther called The Vampire Diaries, although I can’t say I’m heavily into romance myself.
Other than that – all I can recommend if your heavily into horrer is Darren Shan. Easy to read and with heavy splatterings of gore, it’s a good series. Both of them – The Demonata and The Darren Shan Saga, although they are written very differently.

But as to Brisingr – it’s long, drawn out, but it’s a good effort. Better than I can do, I think.
Ok, maybe thats an overstatement, but all the same he’s been writing for years and I’ve been trying my hand at it as a kid most of my life – theres probably a tiny bit of a gap between us.
But, gloomy thoughts aside, I think Brisingr was OK, drawn out, in need of improvement, sure, but as chris and Arya said, no book is perfect.

Sorry for not replying sooner. I think I completely forgot for a bit too long :)
Arya on 23 October 2009, 19:10 said:

Yes, I have to say I agree. I really am only interested in fantasy and or fiction to be honest. I’m also not that into horror. I finished Inkheart a while ago and I’m now reading Inkspell. It’s so far good. (to me at least):)
Puppet on 23 October 2009, 19:42 said:

Could we please stay on topic? Pwease? :O
Arya on 23 October 2009, 20:02 said:

What topic? I don’t remember stating a topic.
Puppet on 23 October 2009, 20:07 said:

What I mean is that we should stay on Brisingr when commenting in a Brisingr review. There are other places to talk about other books.
Arya on 23 October 2009, 20:20 said:

Oh ok. Well, do you remember that mine and my thing. Can someone explain to me why he used mine instead of my.
Danielle on 23 October 2009, 20:29 said:

He wanted to lend a more “authentic” Middle Ages feel to his book. “Mine” is a more archaic alternative to “my,” and Paolini apparently thought that if he had his characters say “fetch me mine slippers” instead of “fetch me my slippers” it would sound more Middle Ages-y. Unfortunately, there are correct places to use “mine” instead of “my,” and his switching them in and out arbitrarily just came across as amateurish.
Arya on 23 October 2009, 20:30 said:

Oh ok, well care to explain why he used mine instead of my in some parts of the book.
Puppet on 23 October 2009, 20:31 said:

Paolini was just being Purple.
Arya on 23 October 2009, 20:31 said:

Oops I checked on the sight and my comment wasn’t on so that’s why there’s a double of it….. :( And oh that makes sense.
Arya on 23 October 2009, 20:37 said:

Purple meaning in this sentence?
Snow White Queen on 23 October 2009, 22:09 said:

…basically ‘purple’ means that he’s trying too hard to sound archaic…and just everything that Danielle said, more or less.
Arya on 23 October 2009, 22:14 said:

Ah, by the way let me guess you feel like I’m childish for not knowing some of this.
Danielle on 23 October 2009, 22:17 said:

You’re what, 12? 13? 14? When I was 14, I thought Paolini was an awesome writer and had no idea what purple prose was. (Heck, I barely knew what prose was!) So in other words, no.
Arya on 24 October 2009, 09:08 said:

I’m 11…… also ok. So, anyone else think that there out of ideas on Brisingr because I don’t have anymore.
Arya on 26 October 2009, 20:16 said:

Also, just saying randomly, I liked Eragon the best out of the Inheritance. Oddly enough. I’ve read it about six or so times.
Puppet on 26 October 2009, 20:28 said:

So do I. Eragon is the best written book by far in the Inheritance Cycle.
Arya on 26 October 2009, 20:58 said:

Yes, does anyone happen to know what Paolini is titling the last book?
swenson on 26 October 2009, 21:25 said:

The Big Brick, Vol. IV? I dunno. It’s some “big secret” or something.
Danielle on 26 October 2009, 22:08 said:

So many lesser authors are trying to copy JK Rowling….how sad.
Arya on 27 October 2009, 19:48 said:

So you like the Harry Potter series too Danielle. I love the Harry Potter series I think there absolutely brilliant.
Marty on 27 October 2009, 20:10 said:

The third book is great and i like the other ones to but there is still some room for improvment. I have a high expectation for the forth book.
Arya on 28 October 2009, 16:41 said:

Aha, Ok Marty. I can see you haven’t really read this review or the book to carefully because as you can see there are some flaws. But if you can give me 3 good reasons why you think the third book is great then I guess it would be a good arguement.
Arya on 28 October 2009, 18:11 said:

So, I just have to wonder, why do you think they left out the huge Sapphire shattering at Tronjheim(I forget so sorry if that’s not correct) in the movie Eragon?
swenson on 28 October 2009, 21:46 said:

shrug They also left out the dwarves, the Ra’zac not dying, Helgrind/Dras Leona… a lot of stuff. Even if the book had been great, the movie was still terrible.
Arya on 29 October 2009, 15:54 said:

What do you mean the Ra’zac dying they die in the third book. (don’t they????)
Danielle on 30 October 2009, 12:31 said:

I think he meant in the movie version of Eragon. I didn’t see it, but I heard it was terrible and they left out a lot of stuff (like the Ra-zac not dying).
Arya on 30 October 2009, 17:40 said:

Oh now I know what you’re talking about. When Brom stabs the Ra’zac in the heart when he jumped oh! I get it ok sorry for the confusion.
Arya on 30 October 2009, 19:38 said:

I don’t know why I just thought of this, but who thinks that the Artemis Fowl and Harry Potter series are easy reads?
Danielle on 30 October 2009, 20:05 said:

Never read Artemis Fowl, but the Harry Potter series is definately an easy read. I finished the entire series in about three weeks. It probably would’ve taken me more like two if I didn’t have to worry about getting caught reading them…but yeah, they’re not hard books. Good, but not hard.
Arya on 31 October 2009, 10:03 said:

I know, the Artemis Fowl books probably took me all together(because I didn’t read them all at once) about maybe 2 or 3 weeks. They’re a little be confusing at first but they’re a very good series in my opinion.
Puppet on 31 October 2009, 11:08 said:

What does Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl have to do with Brisingr?
Arya on 31 October 2009, 13:14 said:

They’re all fiction, but I get your point. Well how do you think Eragon is going to defeat Galbatorix in the last book?
Snow White Queen on 31 October 2009, 13:56 said:

With his super-Stu problems.

I love how no one even entertains the possibility that Eragon might not kill him.
Arya on 31 October 2009, 14:54 said:

Oh, you have a point there too. Then what do you think Snow White Queen?
Spilly on 3 November 2009, 05:39 said:

I think he’ll end up sword fighting him, get very nearly defeated, stagger around a bit before hitting on a hidden well of strength he didn’t know existed, and defeat Galbatorix with some trick/magic/sword thrust he hadn’t been able to master up to that moment.

(I’ll be disgusted if Galbatorix suddenly manages to find his conscience midbattle and becomes a raving, gibbering wreck just in time for Eragon to feel sorry for him…)

As to movies of much loved books; if you like the books, don’t expect the movies to be very good. This happens very rarely. Half the books I’ve read (and liked) have had their movies Hollywood-ised (Tailored and mangled so it would suit the audiences who like the Fast-Pace-Action movies with very little plot), have had half the key plot missed out and had some heavy-duty plot tinkering to fill in the blanks, until ‘based on’ is a very loose description indeed.

This is why I won’t watch New Moon for the sake of my sanity – I was driven up the wall by Twilight as it was.

But, back on the subject of Brisingr and as an afterthought, some of Eragons problems could probably be enough to incapacitate Galbatorix as they are – if Eragons reaction to Arya refusing his advances are anything to go by.
Could be an interesting plot twist – Galbotorix invades Eragons mind and promptly get’s mentally tortured, thus enabling Eragon to (Heroically, against all odds, and all that claptrap) strike the fatal blow.
Hmmm…
Spilly on 3 November 2009, 05:43 said:

The movie of Eragon left me stewing for days.
It’s sort of pitiful the way they change good books into fast paced, plotless husks of what they once were…
Danielle on 3 November 2009, 14:14 said:

Amen, Spilly. I couldn’t believe that movie critics loved the movie version of Order of the Phoenix. If I hadn’t read the book before watching the movie, I wouldn’t have known what the heck was going on! And they said it was a “satisfying sequel.” When you take the longest book in the series and make it into the shortest movie in the franchise…well, it’s not going to turn out so well.

I didn’t even watch the movie version of Eragon, it looked so bad.
Puppet on 3 November 2009, 14:27 said:

Bad? It was amazing, the LOL value of that movie is unlimited.

BRISINGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Danielle on 3 November 2009, 16:30 said:

Wow….dies laughing

I totally ROFLed when I heard about Galby’s “I suffer without my stone. Do not prolong my suffering.”
Arya on 3 November 2009, 21:43 said:

I absolutely loved the movie. As for the Harry Potter 5 movie I thought that it was short and it left out some important parts of the book in my opinion.
Puppet on 3 November 2009, 22:46 said:

What did you like about the Eragon movie, Arya?
Snow White Queen on 3 November 2009, 23:32 said:

“I suffer without my stone”

Am I the only one who immediately thinks of kidney stones?
Spilly on 4 November 2009, 05:36 said:

No. Although I’ve never seen one it does sort of hint it – although, it probably would hurt more if he had the kidney stone, rather than not have it.

@Puppet and Arya

Did you pay attention to the books? They’ve missed half the plot out of the movie that the other books in the series need to work, which means that the other movies are going to be even more mangled to make the them work. LOL factor is all their going to have – increasingly fast, dangerous, and gut wrenchingly terrifying (Atleast for Eragon) chases, fights, and soppy moments, which will probably be just as territying in their own way.
Sure this movie has got a LOL factor – but thats all it’s got. It’s not Eragon. It’s a (loosely based on Eragon) Movie
‘Dark arts dragon summoned by Durza to fight Saphira and nearly kill her? Why not! Lets Jaz it up!’
And thats only one of the flaws I remember.

Nothing like sticking to the plot and making a decent movie out of it…

Sorry – ranting here… :(
Spilly on 4 November 2009, 05:43 said:

Atleast they managed to get Saphira halfway right – not bad graphics…
And they got the actor for Eragon sort of right. I’ve always thought he had dark hair. But hey – silver lining.
Puppet on 4 November 2009, 11:31 said:

If I wanted to watch Eragon for the plot I would have just watched A New Hope.
Arya on 4 November 2009, 19:04 said:

Well, I liked it just for the fact of it. But you’re right Spilly about how they just invented a scene. Also the producers did leave out some important things.
Also about the stone thing, I think that at that point in the movie I think it was pretty clear what he meant. But hey that’s just my opinion.
Spilly on 5 November 2009, 08:24 said:

I know. It just sounds weird out of context :)

I’m not angry at anyone here for liking the film – I sort of grudgingly like what they’ve done visually myself… I’m just disappointed and angry at whoever thought it would be a good idea to turn a good book into a trashy (Plotwise) film.
I think that if they make a film out of a book, they should at least try to make it out of the book; not some audience driven fantasy world where everything has to be bent.
Aah well – the world can’t be perfect :|
Errorgonewrong on 11 November 2009, 07:35 said:

<clearing throat>

I think everyone should give Paolini a break…He has been thrust into publicity since Eragon got published. How about one of you, who only project negativity for the cycle, write four fantasy novels first, and then complain about someone else? Yeah! Write your own damn book if you’re not satisfied with Paolini’s work. He is an artist, and he expresses himself – go Paolini! go Eragon! go inheritance cycle!

However, I feel that Paolini should not have sold out to the film-makers….Eragon the movie, DID NOT do the book ANY justice….it was really, REALLY BAD
Puppet on 11 November 2009, 08:01 said:

write four fantasy novels first, and then complain about someone else? Yeah! Write your own damn book if you’re not satisfied with Paolini’s work.

To quote Kitty:

If I hear “let’s see YOU write a book” one more time, I am going to start busting some neighbor heads.

Do you need to be a chef to know when food is gross?

Do you need to be an artist to know that this is a terrifying painting?

Do you need to be a scriptwriter to know when a line in a movie is cheesy?

Do you need to be a tailor to know when your jeans are shoddily-made?

Do you need to write bestselling novels to know when a book is bad?

Also, a lot of the members on this site are participating in NaNoWriMo.
Puppet on 11 November 2009, 08:11 said:

And before anybody does the He Was 15 When He Wrote Eragon argument, let me just say that I wrote a 50K word novel when I was 11. that’s 107 pages.
Spilly on 11 November 2009, 08:36 said:

Fair point, Puppet.
It’s fun writing things when you’re younger – you look back on it years later, and you think something along the lines of ‘I wrote THIS??’

@Errorgonewrong

I must have re-written Paolini’s inheritance cycle scene’s a million times by now; I’ve throwm out almost all them.
However, if I write any more of these, I think I might actually have re-written atleast Eldest, and possibly Brisingr.

@Kitty
I have to agree about the neighbors heads – although in my case it’s more likely to be classes heads. Gym possibly – it’s a lesson I hate above all others. It also has more weapons handy.
Danielle on 11 November 2009, 13:38 said:

@ Spilly,

Shop class is a better place to confront an opponent, IMO. More weapons. Art class would work, too, what with the paint and all.
Spilly on 12 November 2009, 04:29 said:

Fair point, Danielle. Rofl :D
Danielle on 13 November 2009, 00:52 said:

The cafeteria would be ideal, too. Even if you were somehow unable to use all the kitchen utensils as weapons, you could still use the cafeteria food.
Spilly on 13 November 2009, 05:08 said:

LOL. Do you have much experience in the area?
Kitchen utensils… Hmmm… IMO a bottle of cold water down their back works better. Perferably with Ice cubes.
Danielle on 13 November 2009, 13:08 said:

shrugs I’ve watched every single episode of Burn Notice (about an ex-CIA Black Ops guy who’s stuck in Miami and uses his spy skills to help the people there) and on one episode, he confronts an assassin in a high school wood shop. Art class, gym class and the cafeteria all seem like good places to confront assassins too—you know, if the wood shop is closed. :P And I’ve SEEN the cafeteria food. shudders Makes me glad I bring my lunch.

That’d be a good diversion. Then, while they’re still shivering, you could knock ‘em out with a cutting board. If another one came at you with a knife, those giant cutting boards would make good sheilds, too.
Danielle on 13 November 2009, 13:11 said:

Oh, yeah, and I have almost five years of martial arts experience under my belt. My sensei told us what to do if we were ever kidnapped. :P
Puppet on 13 November 2009, 14:03 said:

So… back on topic, pweeze?
Arya on 13 November 2009, 20:38 said:

What’s with you saying pweeze. It sounds like a 2 year-old. Also I just want to say that I think that when I was 9 I wrote a 100 page draft of a book. Ok back to topic. I think that some of you really could rewrite Brisingr and or Eldest. Do not play the age card with Paolini because isn’t he 25, I hear, now.
Snow White Queen on 14 November 2009, 22:35 said:

sounds like a 2 year old.

Yep, that sounds about right for Puppet…just kidding. He’s actually extremely mature for his age, and as such, most of us can tell that he’s only kidding around and not being genuinely stupid.

But to honor our resident toddler’s request, I’d like to say that it’s funny how people go out of their way to excuse Paolini’s blatant ripping-offness by saying that ‘there are no more original plots’ or that Saphira only lets Eragon have his way so much because she ‘loves him a lot’ or stuff like that.

The reason this came up was because me and three other friends rented the Eragon movie to relentlessly mock, and while everyone agreed that Eragon was an annoying whiney brat, I think I was the only one who kept pointing out the inequality of Eragon’s relationship with Saphira. (Which was even more blatant in the movie, if it were possible.)
Spilly on 16 November 2009, 04:28 said:

Cafeteria food = poison in bad disguise, Danielle. :)
Inequality? I didn’t really notice it that much. Saphira’s as old for her age as Puppet in the books – she seems to be Eragons source of knowledge for most things before Oromis steps in and Agaeti Blodhren happens with a multicoloured bang.
Danielle on 16 November 2009, 14:22 said:

Heeyyy….maybe that’s how Eragon will defeat Galby in the end! Paolini will let him discover a portal to our world where he will find the Poison To End All Life and Love, aka the local high school’s Special of the Day!

Yeah…I always wondered how that worked. I know she was in her egg for a while and all, but infants don’t remember that much….do they? Maybe dragon infants are different. Still, she needed Eragon’s help in learning to talk. so…
Arya on 16 November 2009, 18:19 said:

I knew that Puppet was trying to be funny I was just pointing it out. Anyways, I wonder really how he will kill Galbatorix. I suspect the hearts of the dragons will have something to do with it. Like Eragon and Saphira use the knowledge from the hearts to learn Galbatorix’s TRUE name. Or something like that. But, we won’t know until the 4th and final book comes out. Who thinks this book with be a complete failure? Or should I give Paolini benefit of the doubt.
Spilly on 18 November 2009, 05:05 said:

Turkey Twizzler – choke! That was my schools christams special. Tried it once and refused to again, which is probably why I’m still alive.

@Arya
Didn’t Galby put a curse on his true name that killed all who uttered it? I remember that story of Oromis’ about a rider dying when he/she found it…
Puppet on 18 November 2009, 13:23 said:

Then Eragon is probably going to cast a level 9 deflection spell, say Galby’s name and have the curse deflect back to Galby.
Danielle on 18 November 2009, 13:56 said:

Here’s what he’ll use:
Spilly on 19 November 2009, 08:14 said:

:)
Arya on 20 November 2009, 17:16 said:

Ok I forgot about that. Hmm. I don’t know we’ll have to find out when it comes out.
Spilly on 23 November 2009, 07:06 said:

So what would Galbys health count be if the shirt adds 20 damage?
Danielle on 23 November 2009, 19:46 said:

Hmmm….let’s figure this out mathematically.

Eragon: +20 shirt of smiting
+30 sword of awesome (per swing)
+8 magic (draining)
+90 magic (non-draining)
+5 Saphira (fire)
+300 Saphira (magic; virtually inaccessible so we’ll ignore it until the climax)
Health Count at Start of Battle: +5000

Galbatorix: +50 sword of evil
+100 magic (non-draining)
+9 magic (draining)
+1 dragon (magic; accessible)
+900 dragon (fire; inaccessible unless he has had his dose of happy pills (which he ALWAYS does))
+80 bare chest of smiting
Health at Start of Battle: 827

So if Galby manages to attack before Eragon does, he’ll probably win (what with his bare chest of smiting and all). If not, he’ll be dead in about, oh, five minutes or so.
Steph (what is left) on 23 November 2009, 21:36 said:

Danielle, you should join the forums. I bet you’d end up making them about twice as epic.

(Of course, you’ll end up with half as much spare time. It’s all relative.)
Danielle on 24 November 2009, 01:28 said:

bows Thank you, I take that as a compliment…which is what it was…so I guess we’re all in agreement, then…gives a Jack Sparrow-esque smile

How do you join, anyways? I tried once but got the feeling there’s some mysterious ritual that involves a Pop Tart….
Spilly on 24 November 2009, 04:46 said:

Jack Sparrow? We-e-ell, if you really want to be eaten by a hungry bunch of Cannibal natives, thats up to you. Personally, I’d rather not.

Forums? Nah – I wont bother, mainly because I have devoted my time to another serious site with forums, and have little enough free time with that one. Still, sounds fun.
Maybe you should join, Danielle – show all those inheritance fans why their fanatic devotion is completely senseless. :)
Spilly on 1 December 2009, 06:04 said:

Anyway – I guess the converstaion just reached a silent point.
I’ve got a very random question here thats completely off topic, but none-the-less, it’s one I would like people to reply to.

Does anyone here play/played Oblivion; Scrolls of the elders, un-modded?
Arya on 3 December 2009, 18:54 said:

Umm no actually I haven’t ever heard, nor, played that game. Is it fun? Well back to subject. I didn’t reply for so long just because I simply had nothing to reply about. If there’s nothing to reply why reply at all.
Spilly on 4 December 2009, 04:30 said:

Cool. Guess I’ve just had my earlier point thrown back at me. Seriously, I should know better :D

I was asking because at the moment im thinking of getting it and want some considered opinions on the game before I stumble against any brick walls otherwise known as bugs, errors, crappiness, etc.
Arya on 4 December 2009, 15:21 said:

Aah that makes sense. I hope that someone does know so that you don’t waste your money or anything like that. Well good luck with that.
Katz on 5 December 2009, 21:21 said:

Wait…you weren’t kidding. I just looked at the Wikipedia article and realized that it actually is subtitled “The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular.”

And I was just about to congratulate you on your brilliant parody.
Spilly on 7 December 2009, 07:20 said:

Thanks, Arya. I might need it. :)
Arya on 7 December 2009, 22:26 said:

Kats If you actually read the book it said on the title page Brisingr or The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphria Bjartskular. So, I don't know either you don't have very good looking skills. Or you were too lazy to read that part. Personally I won't judge.Spilly. I hope you won’t need the luck but who knows.:)
Puppet on 7 December 2009, 23:32 said:

Arya, if you had actually thought over your post you would have seen all the grammar mistakes in it. I don’t know if you have very good looking skills. Or you were too lazy to proofread. Also, you spelled Saphira wrong. Personally, I won’t judge.

Hey, Arya, comments like these^^ really aren’t needed, k?
Spilly on 8 December 2009, 05:12 said:

She’s trying Puppet – and even with the grammar mistakes, what she means is clear to see and understand. It will gradually improve over time…
I also have a feeling that Arya replied quickly, hence the spelling and punctuation mistakes. You try typing really fast without really looking at the keys, and see how easy it is to make mistakes, lol.
And as to proof-reading – it’s not something a lot of people think of doing before they post… After all, so long as the point is across, what does it matter?
I’m an exception to the rule – I do proof read… But not everyone does.

@Arya
Back to Oblivion. I agree – who knows?
Puppet on 8 December 2009, 08:20 said:

Yes, I know, the proofreading and grammar mistakes wasn’t my point. And in a books as bad as Brisingr, where the text is so purple and overly descriptive, you don’t tend to pay attention very much. The book’s subtitle is proof of that.

The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular.

Could there be a more purple or useless title?

As for Oblivion, I’ve seen it played on a PS3 and from what I saw and heard (from game reviewers), it was a good game…
Arya on 8 December 2009, 15:13 said:

Sorry for all the gramatical mistakes. As Spilly said, I was actually in a hurry. Sorry again. As for the game, at least now we finally have someone who has seen it. I’ll try to proofread from now on.
Puppet on 8 December 2009, 16:19 said:

You completely misunderstood my point. I don’t mind the grammar mistakes… I was like that not to long ago.
Arya on 17 December 2009, 19:48 said:

Wow, nobody has been on in this long. Well, anyways, I’m sorry that I misunderstood your point.
Spilly on 18 December 2009, 06:55 said:

Like I said, Arya – silent converstation… :)
snarkyarchie. again. on 22 December 2009, 08:03 said:

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you blind or something?! Cause really, who do you think you are?? The great… whatever.

Before you start bashing Paolini and the Inheritance cycle, look at yourself first. You are not even great. do you really think that you are an expert on all of these?? atleast, paolini has had a whole lot more attention than you. so, yeah, go forth and multiply.

Gonna block moi again? big baby.
Puppet on 22 December 2009, 11:47 said:

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean by ‘blind’, ‘who do you think you are’. Number of copies sold/popularity does not make a book good, take Twilight for example.
We critics still have yet to here a good argument for the Inheritance Cycle, none of the “He was 15!!!” or “Let’s see you write a book!”

I wrote a 50,000 novel this year and last year, as well as a 20,000 word novel a few years ago. I’m 12, does that mean my writing is suddenly amazing?

Anyways, we would be happy to hear your arguments.
Danielle on 22 December 2009, 15:14 said:

Gonna block moi again? big baby.

Uh, snarkyarchie? You’re really not impressing (or scaring) anyone by throwing the internet equivalent of a temper tantrum. If you want to argue about Inheritance, please frame your arguments intelligently and don’t throw out random insults. Like I said, it doesn’t impress anyone.
Mary on 23 December 2009, 01:32 said:

Uh, danielle? I don’t blame SnarkyArchie. I think this is a free country, so, come on, cut him (or her) some slack. You aren’t an authority yourself. So, if you don’t wanna hear (or read) temper tantrums in the internet, then I guess that won’t be possible. I mean, it is the INTERNET for God’s sake. Posts are public. If you can’t accept that fact, then get the hell outta here. And, puhlease, mind your own business. How could you say ‘intelligently’ when you, yourself, aren’t projecting even a teensy lil bit of what we call.. intelligence?

And Puppet, Snarkyarchie didn’t say that you were amazing. I mean, there are helluva lot of aspiring writers. Stop being an insufferable know-it-all.
Danielle on 23 December 2009, 01:44 said:

Yes, Mary, but if someone is being immature (and possibly headed on the road to get themselves blocked) they should be called on it. I’m all for letting you express your opinions, but I happen to disagree, I have the right to tell you so. And if you’re throwing a temper tantrum, well, I have the right to tell you so. The right to free speech goes both ways, hon.

And while you’re insulting my intelligence, may I call you on your hypocrisy? You tell me to mind my own business when, if you TRULY believed in everyone minding their own business….well, do the math. If you REALLY believed in NOBODY commenting on ANYTHING ANYONE said, you wouldn’t comment on what I said. You would mind your own business. So clearly, you are either A) a hypocrite or B) someone who only believes people who you agree with should have the right to free speech.

I restate my previous complaint: If you are going to disagree, please frame your arguments intelligently rather than spouting random insults with no logical foundation. Thank you and have a nice day. :)
Puppet on 23 December 2009, 01:54 said:

And Puppet, Snarkyarchie didn’t say that you were amazing. I mean, there are helluva lot of aspiring writers. Stop being an insufferable know-it-all.

You completely misunderstood my post. The reason why PaoPao gets praise is because he wrote a book when he was 15, even thought the book was crap. Age doesn’t matter, pretty much at all.
Arya on 31 December 2009, 16:54 said:

Yes, well, I missed the conversation. :)
Spilly on 4 January 2010, 07:30 said:

Too right Danielle.
Just because we’re pulling apart a novel, Snarkyarchie, doesn’t mean we’re right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and this is a site for everyone to express them. If you’d bothered to read through this thread rather than react emotionally right away, then you would see that;

1) Yes, we are picking this novel to pieces. But if you’d thought to look, you’d see that we’re not concentrating on the negative – there are some good points that are mentioned… It’s just that the bad outweigh the good.
2)That this sort of site is a very good writing tool. When you create a novel and publish it, peoples reactions will be different and varied. But most of all, it’s the negative comments that help you realise where you went wrong. And what to correct to make the book a better read. If anything, Paolini would have done well to work through the book with a total stranger or submit it to a critic first. This would have helped some of the major bad points, I think, had the critic picked up on them.
3) We’re debating this reasonably, rather than loosing our temper at eachother every five minutes. You will perhaps notice that the more reasonable and thought out comments are NOT BLOCKED.
Chances are your first post included a lot of swear words, and loudly, and irrationally, voiced opinions, none of them nice. And probably about everyone on this site.

I’m not saying your points arn’t valid – at 15 to produce a novel which even makes it to the publishers, to find an agent who thinks it’s worth a risk – that is miraculous.

The point of this wall of text is this; we’re not bashing Paolini, the Inheritance cycle, or the great writing talent which hides there. We are merely expressing our opinions and judging Paolini to our own varying standards.
And the result is left to itself. I myself have learn’t some tips from this site from the comments about Paolini’s work – and what to avoid, and what could work given the right situation.

An old saying my mum repeats every so often;
‘If you haven’t got anything reasonable to say, don’t say anything at all’
Spilly on 12 January 2010, 07:29 said:

Hello people. Sorry about the post above. It was for Snarkyarchie, although he’s probably long gone by now.

@Arya
So did I, so don’t worry about it. :)
Arya on 25 February 2010, 22:40 said:

Wow, I’m sorry I haven’t been on lately. Well, I’m certaim Snarkyarchie is definitely long gone by now. :)
fffan on 1 March 2010, 05:06 said:

Did anyone else feel, while you were reading Brisingr, that there was times when you weren’t really reading it? Your eyes were just sort of passing over the words and you weren’t acctually taking anything in?
I started getting that sensation after about two paragraphs.
fffan on 1 March 2010, 05:40 said:

I also thought his magic system was a little flawed. I don’t understand why Eragon is so obsessed with getting a “proper” elven sword. I would imagine there’d be some sort of spell to stich up an improper human sword if it ever got dented or shattered (even though I’m pretty sure metal is mallable). There’s a spell for reataching whole human limbs isn’t there? Maybe metal is an exception to magic but it seems like a little bit of a plot hole to me.
Puppet on 1 March 2010, 11:07 said:

Did anyone else feel, while you were reading Brisingr, that there was times when you weren’t really reading it? Your eyes were just sort of passing over the words and you weren’t acctually taking anything in?
I started getting that sensation after about two paragraphs.

That’s pretty much how I felt throughout the entire book. Brisingr is so forgettable, it’s all pointless filler in an empty book. I remember a few events but nothing specific. When I finished reading it my eyes hurt.
Arya on 20 March 2010, 15:29 said:

@Puppet, after I finished reading my eyes hurt, too.
I seriously hope that Paolini doesn’t make the fourth book so boring. I was just talking yesterday about how, if he does the fourth book with so much nature talk, I’ll go mad.
Arya+Eragon=NoisyNights XD on 28 April 2010, 08:03 said:

Well i have to admit that at parts you do wonder wtf is happening eg. the wizard dude in the random tower and eragon runs away BUT in the last book you will probably see something interesting happen from that. Brisingr isn’t the action book the 4th one is… Brisingr is just a seed to develop into the bigger plots… remember that Paolini was planning to do that ALL in one book so it probably led to it but it was too big to fit in it…

Oh yeh it would be much better if paolini got a bit more ‘mature’ and made more scenes of Arya and Eragon… hopefully ones were Arya doesnt reject him..

P.S Read My Name XD
Arya+Eragon=NoisyNights XD on 28 April 2010, 08:31 said:

At the conclusion of Eldest, book two of his Inheritance Cycle, Christopher Paolini had seemingly laid the ground work for the series’ climax in book three. Concluding as it did with a second major battle being fought and a meaty surprise being revealed it would have been easy for him to throw all his characters into the final confrontation and bring the story to an end. After all many a trilogy before this one has rushed headlong to its conclusion with an eye for its destination without worrying overly much how it arrived there.

However, Paolini has risked his reader’s impatience by not giving into that temptation with Brisingr, book three of four, that was published by Random House Canada in the fall of 2008. Instead he takes the time to build a more complete picture the world and the people who inhabit her as well as continuing the story. Of course with each step down the road there is less and less time and the pressure on Eragon and Saphira to discover a means of defeating Galbatorix, the king who would destroy all the free people, increases. For unless they can solve that riddle it doesn’t matter how many battles they win, they will ultimately lose the war.

Brisingr sees Eragon spending and extended period of time among the dwarfs. While he’d much rather be staying with the army of the Varden, (the resistance), their leader, Nasuada, insists that he go to the dwarfs as her representative. The King of the dwarfs had been killed in the last battle of book two, and they are now going to select from among the thirteen clan chiefs a new monarch, and its vital that whoever it is continue to support the war against Galbatorix. Nasuada hopes that Eragon’s presence there will serve to remind those dwarfs who might be wavering in their commitment, of the need to fight for their freedom.

Paolini’s decision to enmesh Eragon in dwarf politics and spend a sizeable chunk of the book in the dwarf kingdom observing the process of selecting a monarch, instead of hastening the conclusion of the series might seem odd at first glance. However, by doing so Paolini is making the point that just because you’re under threat doesn’t mean you surrender those things that define you, even if there is a risk that it will cause a result not to your liking. If Eragon were to use his power as a Dragon Rider to influence who is chosen as the next dwarf king, no matter what his intentions, he would deprive the dwarfs of their freedom of choice, making him no less a tyrant than Galbatorix.

Throughout Brisingr Paolini returns to the theme of being responsible for one’s actions with different people. For this isn’t just Eragon’s story, and the character of Roran, Eragon’s cousin, represents how any of us can make a difference. How, even without magic or the companionship of a dragon, we each have the power to exact change. Yet Roran too learns about having to take responsibility for his actions, when he disobeys a direct order from his commanding officer in the midst of a raid against an enemy patrol.

It doesn’t matter that by doing so he saved the lives of a great many men, ensured the success of his mission, and personally slew a great many of the enemy, Nasuada still has to have him punished. No one, no matter who they are or what they have done, can be seen to be above the law. After reading Roran’s heroics it might seem ridiculous to us that Nasuada punishes him. but that is her living up to her responsibility to the people she leads to ensure that the law is equally enforced. Of course the fact that she demotes the officer who gave the orders that Roran disobeyed and then promotes Roran to be one of the Captains of her army mitigates the punishment and shows that she understands the true nature of justice.

The sign of a really good author is if he can draw you so deeply into the story that you’re reacting to characters or situations as if they were real. At one point while I was reading Brisingr I was really frustrated with Eragon’s impatience and near arrogance when it came to accepting other people’s orders or suggestions. It was only in the middle of saying to myself, “What an arrogant little…” that I realized what an amazing job Paolini had done in his depiction of Eragon.

Sure he’s gone through all sorts of magical transformations, has magical powers, and has a spiritual link to a dragon, but at the heart of it all he’s still only a teenage boy unsure of his identity and insecure about his capabilities. For Paolini to have been able to elicit that reaction from me about Eragon, is a perfect example of the magnificent job he’s done in bringing this world to life. Though Eragon is the hero of the series, Paolini, doesn’t shirk from showing him warts and all. Even when we are seeing the world through Eragon’s eyes, his character is so honestly presented we can’t help but wanting to slap him upside the head on occasion.

While the first two books of The Inheritance Cycle were exciting, fun to read, and well written, Brisingr gives us a deeper understanding of the world the series takes place in, and brings us closer to the people we had been getting to know in the first two books. Christopher Paolini took a risk by slowing down the course of events to allow us this opportunity, and its a risk that’s paid off handsomely as I feel we now know more, and care more, about Alagesia and the people who inhabit her then we did before. If you weren’t emotionally involved with the story before now, there’s no way you can avoid it now. The table is set – let the final confrontation begin – we’re ready.
RandomDude on 28 April 2010, 08:45 said:

I dont understand one thing… what happens to the ORIGINAL Eragon Paolini doesnt say anywhere.
ProserpinaFC on 29 April 2010, 10:23 said:

It’s kinda sad to think that he has run out of steam. Even if the books are horribly average, I think he should complete them, just to have to done.

Plus, how can we make fun of him if he quits?!

Kenpachi: No fun in killing weak men.
Jim on 25 May 2010, 09:22 said:

It baffles me why anybody would read a book when you obviously don’t like the other books in the same series. I guess some people just have too much free time on their hands…. And saying you do it just so you can make fun of the book on the internet justs makes you look like a complete loser with no life. Normal people stay away from what they dislike- movies, books, etc.

And the person who wrote these Inheritance books, Paolini, he must be very rich by now since these books seem to sell well. Sorry to burst your bubbles but I doubt he cares what random cynics on the internet say about him.
Roy on 25 May 2010, 09:27 said:

fffan, Elven crafted swords are much better in quality than human swords no matter how many spells the human swords have on them, this is mentioned several times. If you paid attention when you were reading you would know this already.
Puppet on 25 May 2010, 15:59 said:

It baffles me why anybody would read a book when you obviously don’t like the other books in the same series. I guess some people just have too much free time on their hands…. And saying you do it just so you can make fun of the book on the internet justs makes you look like a complete loser with no life. Normal people stay away from what they dislike- movies, books, etc.

Well, the obvious answer is that it’s fun. We may not like them, but it doesn’t mean that it’s fun.

And the person who wrote these Inheritance books, Paolini, he must be very rich by now since these books seem to sell well. Sorry to burst your bubbles but I doubt he cares what random cynics on the internet say about him.

I honestly couldn’t care less. We aren’t here for fame or attention, we aren’t here to make money. We are here because are opinion on the series is that it is poorly written, and most of us here are writers. The Inheritance Cycle is a perfect example of how not to write. I couldn’t care less for Paolini’s opinion.
Rokutenchi on 22 July 2010, 12:06 said:

If any of you blithering idiots have enough intelligence, you will know your comenting on a single book from his series. Yes, I admit the wording is imensefully long, and becuse of it you’er branding an entire series amaterish. I find it sad and pathetic you ‘writers’ have nothing better to do the complain and tear apart someones work. We all have our faults! Also he had to extend his sereis, for it would be to long to comprehend. In one of his interviews he said the it gave him a different perspective of things.
Puppet on 22 July 2010, 13:32 said:

I love how you call us “blithering idiots” and question our intelligence when you, sir, can’t even spell correctly. ;)
Spilly on 22 September 2010, 08:38 said:

@Rokutenchi
If you had bothered to read this thread, or even glance a few posts above yours, you would see that we are not merely being sadistic, cynical b*tching idiots; we are discussing the book, the series and the authors style. Being writers ourselves (For the most part) this is not surpising – and it is a refreshing change to be able to talk about things like the Inheritance cycle with mature, intelligent people, rather than mouthy, loud idiots like yourself who are intent on over-riding anyones differing opinons with your own.
While you make a perfectly valid point, one I have made several times myself, you are reminding me of a user called SnarkyArchie, who didn’t have the common decency to treat others like equals and tone down the language.
Needless to say, he soon stopped posting.
Besides which, I find people like you, who take pleasure in calling people blithering idiots, rather sad and pathetic myslelf. Which, I think, might describe you rather neatly.

@Jim

Can I just point out, that you have called yourself, (quite neatly, I must say) exactly what you described us as?
Spilly on 22 September 2010, 08:45 said:

@ Rokutenchi

Please read my Jan 4th post, addressed to SnarkyArchie, as this will clear up any point’s I may have missed, and further emphasise what I mean.
Spilly on 29 September 2010, 04:14 said:

Do you reckon Saphira will end up having a kid at some point? It’s been niggling at me for a while now – she’d there agonising about a mate, and I’m thinking theres two situations that could happen;
1) The remaining egg is meant for her
2) Some of the ‘new’ generation (No matter where they might spring from) is mean;t for her.

I wonder what colour either the kid or mate would be?
Might be Thorn… (Worrying thought.)
Puppet on 4 October 2010, 20:45 said:

If Saphira and Thorn mated the dragon would be purple…

And thus Spyro the dragon was born…
swenson on 4 October 2010, 22:52 said:

Saphira/Thorn is actually pretty popular. And, weirdly, Saphira/Shruikan. Which becomes even more weird when you realize he’s, like, 100 years older than her and she’s only been an adult dragon for about six months.
Spilly on 5 October 2010, 04:04 said:

Not really. If you think about it Saphira has all this mental knowledge (I suppose you could call it instinctual or inherited memory) from her race, so for Dragons that might not be as strange as we think it is.

As to Spyro… I don’t think the kid will be battling the forces of evil in quite the same way. Unless you count Galby.

PS; what if Saphiras mate turns out to be the last dragon egg and Arya’s the one that activates it?
That would be romonatically nausiating… :S
swenson on 5 October 2010, 09:57 said:

Eh. I suppose not. There’s also the fact that dragons are effectively immortal, which does take some squick out of it. Still, Thorn is closer to her in age, at the very least.
Spilly on 15 October 2010, 07:44 said:

Do you think Saphira and Eragon will die in a blaze of glory, the ultimate sacrafice to kill Galby?
That would be… Different.
Rokutenchi on 29 October 2010, 16:37 said:

It’s been quite awhile when I humiliated myself. I actually came to agree with the faults and facts about this book, and the authors writing. I want to apologize for what I said in my last post (out of ingorance). And Spilly, I understand the point, and absolutely have to agree your reasoning.
I re-read the book around three times, noticing what went wrong, and what needs improvement. Getting back to the point, I’m sorry for what I said, and proving how stupid I am.

A little thing to share, I began my own novel around August sixteenth, and began from there. Well, it would be more easier to show you:
PROLOUGE: FATE OF BLOOD
Night engulfed Hacoda in a blanket of darkness. The air whistled and shook the trees of the forest, and the creatures below coward at its malevolent gales. However, even in the darkest times, the lights of brave souls illuminate the realm of the trees. Everyone was in celebration, for recently a great battle was fought over their land. The village was rested deep within the Malichi Forest home to countless numbers plants, trees, and held few sacred sites.
The fire was hot as the sun, and appeared as a glowing, flickering mountain. The dan¬cers sang their praises to the Great Spirit, acting as swift, gentle performers that felt the heavy beats of the drums. Even the tall, strong, old trees danced with howling winds to show their delight. Birds of the new moon cried out in joy to the skies, blessing the air in a smooth, graceful melody.
A tanned muscular figure stood silently, watching the warm, dazzling flames of the bonfire that stood a tall as a house. A red, shining jewel necklace crawled out of his long black hair, ending in the middle of his chest. His blue eyes were beads of water, looking for a reason to keep living. A loincloth ran between his legs, and below, leather leggings covered his legs and ended at his ankles, where his elegant moccasins covered his feet from the rough grounds.
A quiver was strapped to his back, carrying lethal and deadly arrows that could pierce the skull from both sides. His past carried many secrets and misfortunes and shrouded in mystery. Fire flickered in his eyes as he watched the cloudy events that played sequentially his mind; tormenting him into madness.
His life was more twisting and the intestines of a cow, however.. He is not aware of any relatives in other villages, or across Amarukna. Being the youngest chief and having very little experienced posed challenges for him. He was cursed and looked at with contempt as the adults and children laughed at the only legacy.
After the recent battle, the battle of Kwatatchwan, the ones that doubted him showed him the respect he deserved. He looked at the sky and smiled. “These are promising times now,” he whispered. He looked off to the right and saw an old friend near the Red Fox.
His best friend and War Chief was Akacheta. He was the same age as Hiamövi, and thick, black hair ran from his scalp as well. Much stronger than Hiamövi, and was able impress his warriors for his strength and courage in even the bleakest times, appeared to envy him somehow. A black loincloth, and tomahawk, and hunting boots was all that he wore. At times, he was reckless in battle, but improved dramatically since his first encounter in battle years ago. The path of a warrior has been his entire life since he was a boy. Hiamövi watched him take small sips of his mead, talking with the women that seemed to hold onto him continuously. He knew Akacheta had longed to have a family, but it seemed inev-itable for him. Hiamövi felt pity for Akacheta.
No matter what troubles they will face, now was the time to celebrate their victory. Lanterns were hung up at every entrance, lighting up the streets. The old men told stories of legends while the children sat down quickly, eager to hear. Candles were placed on every surface they could find, tables, benches, even next to the entrances of huts and wigwams, some hanging from roofs.
The children ran around laughing, bringing joy to everyone that saw them. There large smiles lightened up the spirits of those that were depressed, or sad because they might have lost a relative or someone they loved.
Emerging out of the gate, a hunter carried fresh game, and laid it over the fire. This boy was abandoned, however, Life gave him the short end of the stick, even at birth. Dyami rested on a large log, taking in the blows he had suffered, while twirling his thumbs around each other. No lineage entered his thoughts, for he had none.
All he knows was that he was left in a village that took pity on him. However, two boys loved his as a brother, and adopted the young boy into their family.
Many hours later, the once large fire became small embers, and soon extinguished, then darkness flooded in. One by one the villagers vanished, and the village became surrounded in the grasp of the shadows.

Akacheta got ready quickly the next morning. The sky was still dark blue but with each passing moment, the color grew lighter. He saw his mother, the shaman of the village, Chenoa near the Yumi River outside the village wall. She looked beautiful for her crisp age, and not many wrinkles covered her dark face. She was giving her praises to the Great Spirit. “Why are you up this early? Shouldn’t you be resting, mother?
“I could ask you the same thing,” she chuckled. “I can’t rest right now. I have too much work that needs to be done.” He nodded. “You’re the one that must rest, though. That last battle took a great toll on you and your men.”
He gave her a serious look. “I can’t relax. I have to get this village’s honor back…quickly.” He looked down. “I admit I haven’t been the same since then…much blood was lost that day. That’s why I can’t waste anymore time.”
You can’t be too quick to do something,” she said calmly. “It’s like mending a wound; it will take time for it to heal.”
“But mother—“
“No more, Akacheta. You can’t defy the natural order of of the world.” She took her staff and slowly walked passed him. “One of these days you’ll understand what I mean. Tell your friends I wish them good fortune.”
“I will, mother.” Akacheta walked along the dirt paths back to the village. Everyone began to get up. Men went to their stores, or assembled in groups to hunt. The children clung to their mothers, ready to start a new fun day. He dwelled on what Chenoa had said and perhaps she was right.
The dark sky turned into light blue and the sun began to reveal itself. He stopped walking as he saw the hunter, Dyami’s wigwam. He was assembling a party to go hunting. They’d probably be back in about thirty minutes to an hour, he thought.
“You know…you shouldn’t be so angry all the time, it will affect your day. And you would also do better to respect your elders,” said a familiar voice. He turned around and saw Hiamövi munching on half a loaf of bread. “What are you here?” he asked annoyed. “Oh wait let me guess you went to Chenoa and asked her what was going on.” Hiamövi broke a piece of his bread and gave it to Akacheta. “Here,” he said. “I don’t have to ask anyone what’s going on in your head,” he laughed out loud, and took the bread and began to eat. “Hopefully we can get our nations back together again. We have not been whole for many years. And we’ve been at war with the Iroquois, Sauk and Huron and other surrounding tribes for some time.”
Akacheta smiled and said reassuringly, “We will become the Three Fires once more, but wishing won’t do anything for us. C’mon, let’s go to gate and see if any traders are coming.” Hiamövi agreed.
“I don’t know why the elders don’t like me being chief!” Hiamövi said outraged. “I love and cherish this village, and was able to protect it until now, plus we won the battle of for Malichi Forest after obtaining allies through my diplomatic means.” Before he was about to say any more Akacheta punched gently in the arm.
“Probably they haven’t done it because you keep complaining,” Akacheta joked. He laughed, fearing that he may have been right. They walked through the streets, noticing the magnificent homes, markets, and War Huts. They thought all these buildings could even appease a God.
“It’s hard to believe,” Akacheta began, finishing his bread, “that we have come such a far way. When the wise men tell us of how many of us were nomads, moving from one place to another seems like something that never happened.”
Hiamövi nodded. “I know what you mean,” he agreed, gazing at the buildings. “It’s a sight like no other to see our great advancement in what, two hundred years?” Akacheta stopped, briefly looking at the sky, thinking for a moment. His eyes were fixed on the clouds, as if he was looking at the clouds. He hummed for a few seconds.
Finally, he answered, “Two hundred and twenty six years by the wise men’s reckoning.” He looked off to the side, watching two parents swing their child by the hand. His heart sank. Hearing the laughter of the family, he felt despair and loneliness inside him. He quickly turned his head toward Hiamövi. “Hiamövi, I know this might seem out of nowhere, but… Do you ever miss seeing your father?”
Hiamövi stopped immediately, dumb struck that he could not reply calmly. “Yeah…I do” he said quietly. He turned toward his friend. “Why do you ask?”
“I was only wondering,” he said defensively. “I just find it weird that you don’t know your mother and I don’t know mine. Perhaps—“
Hiamövi threw out his arm in front of him, signaling him to be quiet. “Perhaps your right, but it may not be possible. If we were kin, then that would be really great. Although, we may never truly know if we are family.”
They resumed walking. “Dyami should be back soon. He will have to get his scalp soon,” Akacheta said. Hiamövi chuckled.
“The three of us have known each other for years, and yet we rarely see another these days.”. A smile curved on his lips.
Hiamövi put his hands behind his head. “The fire burns in every soul of the people that live in Hacoda. It would be great if we didn’t have these obligations, then we could just rest and not worry about all of this.
“I agree.” “Seventeen years and now look: I’m a warlord and leader of a village.” Hiamövi finished the last of his bread. “A lot has changed.” He drew his tomahawk and held it by the pommel.
“I don’t quite know why the Elders wouldn’t want you to be chief anyway,” Akachata said changing the conversation. “It could be because they think you lack experience and you are to—“
“This coming from the seventeen year old that led one hundred warriors to victory fighting for this forest!” Hiamövi shouted. “So don’t tell me that it’s because I’m too young, War Chief!” While they were walking they told each other of what they have been through.
Akachet gave Hiamövi a detailed description of the battle that made him shudder. He vividly described the misty air with the fresh scent of blood, the yells and shouts of the warriors, and the fighting itself.
Soldiers slashing the enemy fighting for whom they loved created a pool of blood with hate and anger filling it up. “I don’t want to know anymore,” Hiamövi said quickly. “Be careful when you enter into fight like that. They can change people and will if you give into the violence.”
“I know that for a fact,” he remembered. “I’ve seen many warriors fall prey to such anguish and fighting.” Without even realizing it they reached the gate. It was one of the four entrances and exited in the city. The walls were tall and thick after many innovations, so they can’t easily be destroyed by rams, or mantlets.
The gate could be lifted like a portcullis. Three ropes on both sides were tied to two large wheels that were cranked to open the wide portcullis. It wouldn’t have taken long to open it, obviously because wood was lighter than metal or steel.
The trees tangled with one another, and branches collided, fighting for dominance. The birds sang their usual songs, lighting up the air. The sun rose with a conflagration of rays that heated the earth, breaking the chills of the night.
A half hour passed, then they saw someone appear from behind the trees. A boy wearing black leggings including a loincloth, and he also carried a large recurve bow, and a skinned shirt cut off at his waist. He looked weary, hunching over his staff to keep up him upright. His clothes were worn and tattered as they glanced at the holes and blood that was stained with them.
At first they thought it was a trader, but there were no sight of food or crops. Hiamövi tried to look closer at the person. It was clear to him that it could not be an enemy. He saw that it did not look like a Huron or Mohawk.
Beside him, he saw Akacheta stringing his bow. “I have a clear shot,” said Akacheta.
“Akacheta don’t! It’s a not an enemy,” yelled Hiamövi, attempting to grab his bow.
“Let go!” He struggled to get his bow back. “What do you know about warfare?” he yelled.
“Enough to let you know what you’re doing his is wrong!” he retorted. Akacheta punched and pushed Hiamövi out of the way. Hiamövi grimaced and grunted trying get back up. “I said stop!” he screamed. Hiamövi shoved him against the wall a grunt. He looked into his friends eyes and saw nothing but hateful, emotionless eyes. Akacheta reached for his tomahawk and hurled it at Hiamövi, and stabbed him in the stomach. He coughed up blood several times, and fell to the ground hard. He screamed from the pain surging through his body. His abdomen and jaw was covered with blood. Akacheta threw his tomahawk away, and reached for his bow. Panting heavily, he reached for his bow and aimed at the boy.
Hiamövi tried to get up, luckily his body allowed him to. He crept behind Akacheta and ferociously grabbed him by the throat, trying to choke him. They crashed to the ground. He struggled to breath, trying to get out of Hiamövi’s grasp, he took an arrow from his quiver and he plunged it into Hiamövi’s leg.
He screamed and yelled. Blood poured out from all of his wounds. Akacheta threw him to the side and reached for his tomahawk. He looked at Hiamövi with hateful eyes as he watched him suffer in his pool of re, hot blood. He crouched next to Hiamövi, and banged the pommel of the weapon against Hiamövi’s head, knocking him out.
“No…” Hiamövi whispered.
Now that there was no one to stop him, he grabbed his bow and aimed an arrow at the unknown figure. He released the arrow; hearing it wisp threw the air, and it struck him in the heart.

Now, obviously, there is something I’m not getting at all. I know this for a fact. I want to know what you think, and if there is a better way I can go about this. Please reply, if you want, and tell me straight-up if it’s rubbish, or an original idea.
ryan bingham on 3 November 2010, 23:51 said:

a lot of people like this series the people who usually dont are to stupid to read it or to arrogant to except that its a good series
Jeni on 4 November 2010, 07:59 said:

@Rokutenchi, if you would like critique of your story, or opinions from people, I suggest registering and posting it on the forums.

@Ryan, I assure you, I have read all of Eragon, Eldest and Brisingr. I don’t consider it a good series. I think there are fundamental flaws with it.

(I could pull out my qualifications to indicate that I’m not stupid, but that would be crass — I do, however, know the difference between ‘to’ and ‘too’).
Spilly on 10 December 2010, 08:31 said:

@Rokutenchi
Here I go with my humble opinions. You’ll probably have to go on more than I say though, (teen here), so maybe it would be better if you posted it on the forums.

At first glance it looks a little wordy and over-descriptive – some of the flow is a little stilted where your trying to emphasise points. I can’t really say anything as I tend to make the same mistake. It may be better to leave some of the detail to the readers imagination.

1) Keep the tense constant
I tend to find that while present tense is absolutely brilliant for tense scenes, using stilted sentences and giving the reader the sense of the ‘here and now’, past tense is generally better for description. It draws the reader in rather than leading them to expect imeadiate action, thus making the action more shocking when it does come. I know you’ve not been using it all the way through, but you seem to slipping into it now and again.

2) Your audience don’t know everything you know
When your saying something like ‘the red fox’, for all your audience know, The Red Fox is a type of beer, or a pub. The first thing that sprang to mind for me was, literally, a red Fox. With big eyes, which was probably not what you intended. You may know what your talking about, but the reader doesn’t live in your head, and without prior knowledge, won’t know what you mean. Another example – what’s a Tomahawk? I have a brief feeling it’s connected to Indians, but I thought it was a tribe?
Unless your writing to a prevously informed audience who already knows all this stuff, it’s like saying ‘Oh – it’s yellow!’ to a guy who was born blind and has no concept of what yellow is.

3) Keep the characters constant.
One moment Hiam is sitting there all deep, mysterious, disjointed stranger-y, the next hes an angry guy loosing his temper every five seconds, and then he’s dying having been stabbed by his ‘best friend’ over some stranger he’s suddenly got it into his head to kill. Am I the only one seeing some… fluctuation in character here?
Once you make a characters personality and ‘class’ in a readers mind, you have to stick to that. Oh, you can bend it a little, and you can change it as the character evolves through the story, but you can’t change there and then without some explanation to the reader about ‘why’ (pretend that’s in italic. I can’t seem to get it to work.). At the moment your characters are fluctuating something awful at the drop of a pin.

4) Events have to make sense to the person reading them
If your reader can’t identify with, or at least recognise the poor guy you’ve just written a violent death scene for, then the readers going to loose interest. Similarly, people have to understand the events that have led up to what has happened at your climax, emotional or physical. Otherwise they’re left with the feeling ‘What was that all about?’, and predictably loose interest unless they’re determined to read on.

This is all I can pick up on in the first read through – as I said, I agree with Jeni’s point about posting it on the forums.

Wow – it’s a wall. I didn’t think it was going to be this long.
Spilly on 10 December 2010, 08:35 said:

My computer seems to have suffered a stroke in the middle of posting, so just to be on the safe side, I’m going to try posting it again. Apologies in advance if it’s repeated.

@Rokutenchi
Here I go with my humble opinions. You’ll probably have to go on more than I say though, (teen here), so maybe it would be better if you posted it on the forums.

At first glance it looks a little wordy and over-descriptive – some of the flow is a little stilted where your trying to emphasise points. I can’t really say anything as I tend to make the same mistake. It may be better to leave some of the detail to the readers imagination.

1) Keep the tense constant
I tend to find that while present tense is absolutely brilliant for tense scenes, using stilted sentences and giving the reader the sense of the ‘here and now’, past tense is generally better for description. It draws the reader in rather than leading them to expect imeadiate action, thus making the action more shocking when it does come. I know you’ve not been using it all the way through, but you seem to slipping into it now and again.

2) Your audience don’t know everything you know
When your saying something like ‘the red fox’, for all your audience know, The Red Fox is a type of beer, or a pub. The first thing that sprang to mind for me was, literally, a red Fox. With big eyes, which was probably not what you intended. You may know what your talking about, but the reader doesn’t live in your head, and without prior knowledge, won’t know what you mean. Another example – what’s a Tomahawk? I have a brief feeling it’s connected to Indians, but I thought it was a tribe?
Unless your writing to a prevously informed audience who already knows all this stuff, it’s like saying ‘Oh – it’s yellow!’ to a guy who was born blind and has no concept of what yellow is.

3) Keep the characters constant.
One moment Hiam is sitting there all deep, mysterious, disjointed stranger-y, the next hes an angry guy loosing his temper every five seconds, and then he’s dying having been stabbed by his ‘best friend’ over some stranger he’s suddenly got it into his head to kill. Am I the only one seeing some… fluctuation in character here?
Once you make a characters personality and ‘class’ in a readers mind, you have to stick to that. Oh, you can bend it a little, and you can change it as the character evolves through the story, but you can’t change there and then without some explanation to the reader about ‘why’ (pretend that’s in italic. I can’t seem to get it to work.). At the moment your characters are fluctuating something awful at the drop of a pin.

4) Events have to make sense to the person reading them
If your reader can’t identify with, or at least recognise the poor guy you’ve just written a violent death scene for, then the readers going to loose interest. Similarly, people have to understand the events that have led up to what has happened at your climax, emotional or physical. Otherwise they’re left with the feeling ‘What was that all about?’, and predictably loose interest unless they’re determined to read on.

This is all I can pick up on in the first read through – as I said, I agree with Jeni’s point about posting it on the forums.

Wow – it’s a wall. I didn’t think it was going to be this long.
Spilly on 10 December 2010, 08:59 said:

Oh dear – it was repeated. (Long, drawn out sigh)

Sorry :)
hi on 28 February 2011, 17:10 said:

I like Turtles!!!!
Spilly on 28 February 2011, 17:13 said:

can anybody tell me the tones of this freakin’ book
Spilly on 4 May 2011, 05:00 said:

Can the person using my name stop doing so?

If you have nothing better to do, try reading the book and making a comment.
RASL on 14 August 2011, 10:25 said:

Thank you so much for writing this critic, I felt that I was all alone in my disappointment of this third novel. Yet on reading these subsequent reviews/responses I do wonder at people’s reaction to this book. no-one seems to be, IMO, able to pin-point exactly where this very workable fantasy formula went wrong.
distant land+maps+chivalrous characters+conflict with evil overlord+ good guys+bad guys+magic (should)= very good story line
But somehow CP fails in it’s execution. it’s not that any of these ideas aren’t plausible as good story lines, as many other Sci-fi/fantasy writer’s have used them (and used them with greater effect might i add), so I fear it must be the writer who has failed in bringing them cohesively to life.
I was and in many ways still am a dedicated fan to the concept of Paolini’s Alagaesia, yet I find that the more I am introduced to his world, through the publishing of each novel, the less inclined I am to want to know more about it as well as the less believable, even within the realms of fantasy, i find it.
The writing, though not in my own taste, has a style of it’s own that is admirable. however, at times it seems as if CP moves away from a style that is comfortable to him and natural, in pursuit of a more tolkeinism-olde-english, which hardly fits the twentieth century, montana, home-school upbringing that he had. And it is clear, at times within the novel, that these two ideals are at logger-heads with each other. each competes for precedence in a sentence and so the flow and rhyme is lost.
The vocabulary, though extensive to the extreme in many instances doesn’t seem to always naturally fit the writer’s true rhythm. there are even moments where i caught myself and thought “clearly a thesaurus has been used here, because this word doesn’t fit the situation in which it is being used!” I do hate to be harsh but I say this more out of a plea that hopefully CP may see this and return to his natural style which not only reads easier, must be easier to write too!
And for this reason I also question whether the series, as it is in it’s current form can be considered amongst “one of the great literary pieces of our time” as some fans have put it. I have found that a good, truly well written book will leave you thinking about certain elements of life, with-out even having had to allude to them. Books such as ‘The Alchemist” ‘Madame Bovary’ or even Harry Potter all provide a reader with this, yet i fear that Brisingr, or dare I say all of paolini’s works leave me with nothing but wonder of what’s for tea!
I would dearly love to hear if my thoughts are shared with anyone else or if not, if someone can restore my previous ardour for the series, the latter of which I must say I would greatly prefer!
Batu on 31 October 2011, 01:18 said:

Hi everyone. I would first of all like to say that I was very disappointed that no one responded to Arya+Eragon=NoisyNights post about Brisingr. Most of you kept telling inheritance fans to write out things that they liked about this book, but when one did, no one responded to it.

I agree with what most of you have posted about how Brisingr was long and that it was filled with a lot of, well, filler. However, i didn’t find this filler boring, because it showed us more about the world in which the story takes place. Also, Paolini was in a lot of self-dug holes coming into the 3rd book. I think he did a fairly good job of covering them. Some of the solutions were a bit stretched, but i feel they were stretching my own imagination just as much as they were stretching the story. I think this helped me expand my own ideas of what is possible in writing. One reason i think he didn’t do as good of a job writing this book as he could have is because he saved too much of it for the last book.He originally had it planned out for one book, which was probably stock-full of content. He was trying to leave as many cliff-hangers as possible going into the last book, instead of answering some of our questions, which would have made for a more interesting penultimate book. Unfortunately, this was probably done in the name of money, which saddens me.

Paolini’s work has indeed made me think about some bigger issues in life. I can honestly say that i have definitely reconsidered my opinion of eating meat because of the scenes in eldest when Eragon visits the minds of other creatures. Also, one of my favorite quotes from Eldest is when Eragon is thinking about religion after talking to a dwarf priest. He thinks to himself ‘That many people cannot be wrong’. I find this to be a very thought provoking quote when it comes to modern day religion. There are several large religions in the world nowadays that hold competing beliefs. This, by its very nature, means that one or more of these beliefs cannot be true. It is simply staggering to me to think that it is highly probable for a large number of people today to be wrong about something they believe so fiercely in. This may not have been what Paolini was intending to comment on in his writing. In fact, I would be shocked if it was. I’m just trying to say that just because he didn’t purposely put in a lot of thought provoking material doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

When it comes to aspiring writers using criticism as a way to enhance their own writing, i find that this comes up short as an excuse for some of the criticism of Paolini. Most people should be able to realize that basing your work on work of others isn’t the best way of developing an original story. It is fairly obvious that a lot of filler that doesn’t do much to enhance the plot won’t endear a book to most people. Clearly a main character that is hard to sympathize with will make a story less relatable. Therefore, I don’t think all of the criticism is necessary to further your own writing. Focusing more on the writing itself, which I admit isn’t always the best, will hopefully help you guys in your own writing more.

If anyone reading this hasn’t noticed, I am a fan of the Inheritance Cycle. Despite the negatives about the books, i still find it to be very entertaining. I know I am deeply interested as to what will happen with the Varden’s struggle against the Empire, and I will certainly be reading Inheritance when it comes out in about a week. However, I wish Inheritance fans would stop being stereotyped by these immature, young children who come onto threads like this and just angrily type that they absolutely love these books, and anyone who doesn’t is stupid. While there are obviously some people who don’t know how to talk about literature in a civilized manner, not all of us are like this. I am not oblivious to the faults in the cycle, but I believe that they are more than made up for. I just wish that the more intelligent Inheritance fans would read this and be inspired to post their own thoughts on here.
Tim on 26 March 2012, 05:17 said:

Paolini’s work has indeed made me think about some bigger issues in life. I can honestly say that i have definitely reconsidered my opinion of eating meat because of the scenes in eldest when Eragon visits the minds of other creatures.

Really? The pretend thoughts of pretend animals affect your opinions of real ones?

He thinks to himself ‘That many people cannot be wrong’.

That’s called the Appeal to Popularity and is a logical fallacy, as anyone even vaguely familiar with logic can tell you. A far better counter-example is “eat shit, 500 million flies can’t be wrong.”

I’m just trying to say that just because he didn’t purposely put in a lot of thought provoking material doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Graffiti can be thought provoking. This does not mean vandals are gifted writers.
gabriela on 30 July 2012, 14:39 said:

i have too say i love the book and cant wait too know whats going to happen next i am disappointed VERY disappointed about the movie but what are we going to do about………………………………………………………………… BE CRITICS!
Eragon is 15 not 24 has brown hair and brown eyes not blond hair and blue eyes
Arya has black and and green eyes
seriously introduce us to Galbatorix in the first movie? we only hear him speak in brisingr through gleadr hearts of hearts
I cant go on my heart is aching!
such a good book and a movie that can do better much better i hope they will remake it another year
now about the actual book. GENIUS i loved the politics the drama the details! i really think Paolini has grown in his writing. IF he keeps this up he will be legendary! i am excited to read THE EPIC CONCLUSION. even though some things where expected like brom being eragons father etc i still wonder those Eragon still like Arya he barely talked to her in this book and he didn’t think of her that much and when he was with her he acted normal not even butterflies in his stomach . i feel like Eragon has grown from being a farmboy into a “man” though he still need to remember he is just a teen and human
Tim on 30 July 2012, 15:24 said:

Hm…Above post’s author link is the URL of this page. Since this looks to have been written around the time the movie came out, is it possible it’s a spam probe?
gabriela on 31 July 2012, 08:36 said:

the movie came out dec 12 2006
gabriela on 31 July 2012, 09:53 said:

Another interesting topic to talk about is do you think Thron will end up with Saphira? I have to say i do feel pretty bad for Thron, he is just a child with the body of a grown dragon, maybe in the last book Murtagh and Thron will change something about themselves and their true names. Or maybe the last egg will hatch and Saphira will end up with him. That will be weird though she is consider “WOMEN”. The conclusion is that the dragon race is about to extinct and Saphira is the last female dragon.
SlyShy on 31 July 2012, 11:26 said:

Gabriela,

I guess you haven’t read the last book yet. Well, I won’t spoil it for you.
Puppet on 31 July 2012, 13:42 said:

You’re probably the only person here who’s read book 4, Sly.
swenson on 31 July 2012, 14:39 said:

I have to admit that even I never technically finished it. I got most of the way through it in one go and, I dunno, just never picked it up again. I genuinely still don’t know what happened at the end, and I will still bop people over the head for spoiling it for me.
gabriela on 1 August 2012, 08:58 said:

My mom is making me write an essay so i can get the last book. I can’t wait! There are so many questions that need to be answered.
Fell Blade on 1 August 2012, 12:01 said:

If you guys haven’t seen Distinctvagueness’s chapter-by-chapter review of “Inheritance” on Youtube, you should check it out. So much of it is filler, and his reactions to the really dumb parts are pretty funny.
gabriela on 1 August 2012, 12:38 said:

Distinctvagueness’s ?
Fell Blade on 1 August 2012, 13:36 said:

That’s his Youtube username. DistinctVagueness
He has a whole series of videos for Eragon and Inheritance.
gabriela on 2 August 2012, 08:04 said:

:D
gabriela on 2 August 2012, 13:56 said:

hasnt anyone wondered who the woman angela reads the bones to is in chapter 17? i think its Eragons mom or maybe angela is Eragons mom
Fireshark on 2 August 2012, 15:36 said:

Since Angela is based on Christopher Paolini’s sister, and Eragon was originally based on Christopher Paolini, I doubt it.
Fireshark on 2 August 2012, 15:37 said:

That Angela is Eragon’s mother, I mean.
gabriela on 3 August 2012, 21:02 said:

what about the woman and teenager angela read the bones to. remember when eragon asked her name and she wouldnt give it to him and the teenager gasped.
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Book	Times Read
Eragon	5
Eldest	3
Brisingr	4

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