Because you can’t tell the difference between British actors.

And from a Brit too! Shocking. ;)

I kind of see the similarities. I mean, they both have beards.

And staves, and robes.

And isn’t the plural of staff “staves”?

...or not?

And isn’t the plural of staff “staves”?

One of my pet peeves. Every time I see someone write “staffs,” I want to whack them with one.

staves is the officially correct plural of ‘staff’, whereas the seemingly-singular ‘stave’ is in fact a verb— the action of causing something to collapse inward.

When we hit Bob with our staves, his skull staved in.

There is also the form ‘stave off’, which has no real relationship to the singular use of the verb ‘stave’, and means ‘to protect against, or prevent [something]’.

I have seen the plural ‘staffs’ used before, but this is incorrect usage, deriving from the singular ‘staff’ with the Middle English plural ending -s. It’s essentially the same as “chaise lounge”, as a variety of ‘folk etymology’ that arose from a misunderstanding of the origins or correct usages of certain words.

At any rate, in kung fu we don’t use staves, we use cudgels. Very long ones, that we sometimes attach various metal spikes to.

Ety-Mon, away!

Hehe, very nice, Nate! Especially since I actually know what a trebuchet etc. is...Wow, this is nearly as good as watching the movie! My mother is getting a bit annoyed with my raucous laughter though...I hope RVL sees this. I feel bad. I left her back in Paris. So sad.

Anyways, in my mind, there is no debate. Lord of the Rings is my favorite book EVER. Not only because of the wonderful writing, the characters (Princess Leia, Pippi Longstocking, and Eowyn were my childhood role models...), but they have a lot of nostalgic value for me, as my dad read them to me. Initially, it was to prep for the movies, but I love the movies and the books in their own right. The movies are classics--they were made to endure the test of time (and I would know, seeing as I've watched the Fellowship at least 20 times, know basically all the dialogue, and can still be enthralled by it every Christmas!)

This had to come up sometime--who is your favorite LotR character and why? My favorite female character is Eowyn, because she was strong and brave, and terribly tragic (and I like tragic characters). Male character would have to be Faramir, because he was one of the few people who resisted the temptation of the Ring, showing not only his goodness, but his lack of greed/ambition. (Not that ambition is bad--it's only bad when you hurt others to get what you want, which is what the Ring makes you do.) Plus, he is another tragic character--he barely remembers his mother, his father hates him...

Anyways, your turn to answer the question! (And please answer it? I really do want to know!)

I liked Bombadil. I know he barely features, but his personality was just so catchy and he as a character was just so enthusiastic and so full of life. I know it would have ruined him if he were given a bigger role, but I can’t help wishing he’s had something more to do.

Luthien is sort of the Ultimate Mary Sue ^Tm. Most beautiful child of Eru? Check. Peculiar parentage (half-elf, half-Maia)? Check. Princess? Check. Very powerful? Check. Magical companion (Huan the hound)? Check. True love who she falls in love with at first sight? Check. Banned from marrying him by Daddy? Check. Goes on a quest? Check. Wins against all odds? Check. Daddy eventually caves and admits her love is pure? Check. Retrieves her love from death? Check. Dies when she feels like it (and is never separated from her true love)? Check.

But it works. Tolkien is that good.

My favorite is tied between Aragorn and Gandalf. Oh, Aragorn, you manly man. Eomer is in second, with Eowyn at third. I adore Eowyn, but her (totally justifiable) angst annoys me sometimes.

I’m a big Aragorn fan, although I’ve always had a soft spot for Pippin. For women, I liked Eowyn because she seems to be the most dynamic and complex of Tolkien’s characters.

@WiseWillow

Luthien is sort of the Ultimate Mary Sue™. Most beautiful child of Eru? Check. Peculiar parentage (half-elf, half-Maia)? Check. Princess? Check. Very powerful? Check. Magical companion (Huan the hound)? Check. True love who she falls in love with at first sight? Check. Banned from marrying him by Daddy? Check. Goes on a quest? Check. Wins against all odds? Check. Daddy eventually caves and admits her love is pure? Check. Retrieves her love from death? Check. Dies when she feels like it (and is never separated from her true love)? Check.

But it works. Tolkien is that good.

See, I don’t think that those things necessarily make a character a Sue. As far as I’m concerned, Sues only happen when the author breaks the internal rules of the story to set stuff like that up. Anti-Sues result from cheating to the opposite end. Really, the fundamental problem with Mary-Sues is that they wreck a story’s verismilitude in order to give characters things that they don’t deserve. And – as far as I know – Tolkien didn’t do that.

So the symptoms, and not the real problem is what you’re saying.

Exactly.

I personally don't think Luthien is a Mary Sue because she fails one of the crucial test in the Ultimate Litmus Test for a Mary Sue (trademark)--she suffers. A lot. She is not allowed to marry the man she loves, she has to travel in the wilderness by herself (not a hardship for yummy manly men like Aragorn, but not easy for a princess), she ultimately fails in saving Beren, and has to give up her immortality to be with him. She literally goes to hell and back to save him, which I think shows more courage and character than the Mary Sue Fairy Princess that some claim she is. Honestly, if I were in her situation, I would like to think I would risk everything for the man I love, but it would be so much easier to sit at home waiting for him. SWQ, she totally does kick butt (but not as much as Eowyn!)

Sorta kinda on that topic--I think that, though there aren't many of them, the women in LotR are powerful and strong, and serve as way better role models than the "strong women" in other books that shall remained unnamed (HAWKMISTRESS! for the fail!). What do you guys think? Some of my friends think that Tolkien creates the same fairy princess characters, but I disagree.

Also, I do too like Sam! Especially in the movie--all his speeches make me all teary-eyed. Especially the part where he says, "Mr Frodo, I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!" It breaks my heart in a hopeful kind of way (that makes no sense, but whatevs!)

Sam is awesome too. I tear up at his speech at the end of the Two Towers movie. The music playing at that part is amazing as well.

Even though that speech was originally from Gandalf (I think) at the beginning of TTT.

[sigh] I’m such a huge nerd.

Sorta kinda on that topic—I think that, though there aren’t many of them, the women in LotR are powerful and strong, and serve as way better role models than the “strong women” in other books that shall remained unnamed (HAWKMISTRESS! for the fail!). What do you guys think? Some of my friends think that Tolkien creates the same fairy princess characters, but I disagree.

I think Tolkien obviously recognized what some don’t want to (his being Catholic probably helped). That men and women are both strong but in different ways. Some might say that while men were given strength of body, women were given strength of soul. Tolkien works so much better because he works in reality as we know it, while others (I spit on you Hawkmistress) try to deny the reality around them.

There’s this sort of short story series in this magazine I subscribe to that really emphasizes the point even better. The series involves characters having to undertake a ritual journey to sacrifice themselves for a kingdom (it’s really pretty decent). One story involved a sort of usual “hulking fantasy hero” (though not cliche, but I won’t spoil how) while a later one involved a woman. What made these stories so perfect was their contrast in how the man overcame his trials and the woman overcame hers.

(Sorry, double post!)

@ Nate: I will look at the magazine later (I'm supposed to be studying for AP French...), but I agree with you! I think that women often can bear, and have to bear, more hardship than men, and can become stronger people because of it. The best example that comes to mind right now is Ma Joad from The Grapes of Wrath--while John (her brother in law) becomes a rather despicable drunk when he loses his wife and son, Ma quietly sits with her mother in law's rotting corpse because she knows that the family can't stop to bury her, holds the family together at all costs, comforts everyone, and still manages to hold on to her humanity and see the good in people.

A more relevant example would probably be Eowyn--I think her true achievement is not her killing the Witch King, but learning to love again, and to be compassionate after losing almost all of her family, and being stalked by a creepy, CREEPY guy. (Actually, I assume that she was more than stalked...but Tolkien probably didn't want to get into all of that mess, and this is probably not the place for it either.) Aragorn deals with his problems through battle, but Eowyn isn't really complete until she has had a taste of battle, and finds that she would rather heal than harm.

Although, I do think that the issue isn't so clear cut--I would say that Faramir has that strength of soul too. Again, his major triumph is not in battle, but in overcoming his father's horrible treatment, and finding love. But that's just my opinion.

Hehe, that's very kind of you! I wish I could convince my dad of my "good taste"--he just shakes his head as his silly daughter who only reads silly books by silly Victorian women (Jane Austen, the Brontes, etc.), but poo-poos at "the greats" like Charles Dickens (who is as interesting as pond scum to read) and Fenimore Cooper (who was an aristocrat writing about and shamelessly romanticizing a life he knew NOTHING about.) I love my dad, but his book choice needs broadening. :)

I didn't think about the racial aspect--that's very true as well! Men are actually proven to be rather weak, and Elves, while strong, aren't really all the more admirable for it, perhaps because that is what's expected of them. Like you said, the novelty of strength in the Little People makes it all the more interesting, and all the more touching.

And the speech you mentioned is my dad's favorite speech as well. He always quotes it at me when I start becoming self-righteous.

Oh yes, very deep and inspiring. Especially the part about the douchebags on Facebook...hehe, that made my night!
And as I bought the books to read them (for research purposes only!), my father will never forgive me. Ever. He brings up the $19.99 I spent to get the books EVERY TIME I complain about other people's obsession with them.

Anyways, total derailment of this thread has come to an end! Anyone else have a favorite speech/line from the book or movie?

My favorite bit is “Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?” etc. Very much so. Although I’m also very fond of the speech Theoden gives right before the Rohirrim charge at the Pelennor fields. Sigh. So much goodness there.

I could be dead wrong about this, but I actually believe it was Aragorn who said that, when he was explaining Eowyn's condition to Eomer after she got injured, possibly? It's been a while, though, since I've read the books. It's a great line, I love it too.

I think Eomer in the books (if I recall correctly) is very much against Wormtongue; he knows that Wormtongue wants Eowyn. I think Eomer was just sort of oblivious to Eowyn’s other sorrows. Maybe? I really should read them again.

True, but you would think he would know something of it, considering he too lost his parents, lost his uncle (first to Worntongue, then for real), lost his cousin...but then again, with all that death, one may become engrossed in private pain quite easily.

Oh, I forgot my other favorite speech: "Oh yes we could! Spoiling nice fish...give it to us rrrrraw and wrrrrrriggling!! You keep nasty chips."

"You're hopeless."

Yeah, Eomer is a very protective big brother, but he can only see (and try and protect her from) outside threats, like Wormtongue. He’s unable to see that the majority of Eowyn’s problems are actually an internal thing.

What, a guy is insensitive to a woman’s emotional needs? You don’t say!!!

Next you’ll be telling me water is wet!

Ok, seriously though, I probably understand it because it’s a guy thing – we just have a tendency to fix thing. Even if Eomer knew what was going on with his sis (or – more likely – had an inkling) it’s only natural that he would focus on the stuff he can hit and stab – the things he can DO something about. Especially as a warrior. I mean, what is he supposed to do about her other pain? You may as well ask a fish to learn how to juggle (from his point of view).

I watched the Fellowship of the Ring for the first time in four years today— forgot how awesome Lord of the Rings is!

Edit: It was, of course, the extended edition.

I don’t like the cast commentary, because it’s not close captioned. I CAN’T HEEAAAR YOUUUU, DOOOOOOMMMM! cried

A billion comments too late:

Don’t worry, we won’t tell helvengurl :P

About? Because, I too, believe Nazgul ring-offering was stupid, Aragorn was sexy as hell, and Legolas is do-able to a fault.

And want to watch it all again. :(

AND AGAIN :(

And read the books again because I read them like, four years ago and have had no time to steal them from my mom since.

I actually don’t mind that Jackson sometimes deviated from the novels—it’s very clear that he cares about Tolkien’s books, and very clear that he had done his research. Some of his decisions were a bit iffy (making Faramir an evil cold-hearted suck up, for one…of course, I am SO not totally in love with Faramir, so I am NOT biased…), but he made it work.

It’s one of those things that’s divisive between fans and casuals.

I mean, in the book you KNEW how oppressive the ring was. Of course, conveying this in movie format without endless narration is nigh impossible. Faramir was a bit of a tough choice since if they had played his scene straight, it could undercut the tension you’re trying to build.

I would have liked the Nazgul scene better if it had been adjusted some, otherwise you just leave people wondering “why can’t the nazgul keep trying to get Frodo”?

I agree, Faramir was portrayed really well in the movies.

I think this thread needs a little more sexy:

Let it also be known I am an equal-opportunity oggler:

To back up my claim as being incredibly attractive to a fault, in case you all missed Dan’s declaration, is that if a man can pull the following off, and you STILL want him, he’s hot. REALLY REALLY HOT.

There’s a distinct lack of Elrond in this thread. <3

Ooooh! I love him there! <3 <3 <3

It’s the eyebrows.

Arwen!

I love her green dress there, and her hair ornamentation. :D

I tried to sketch this one, but it didn’t turn out too well…

I actually drew a really good sketch of that one… Anyway, it’s definitely my favorite picture of her. :D

Needs more Elronds In Disguise:

A good friend of mine, when she got married both she and her husband had LotR oaths inscribed on the inside of their rings in Elvish.

I am SO doing that when I get married. :D

I’ve just started on this article and thought it worth sharing, especially as I’m sure we’re all looking forward on screwing up NP’s attempts to grade LotR on her “adopt or die” series.

THERE IS A DISTINCT LACK OF SAMWISE GAMGEE.

THERE IS NO LONGER A DISTINCT LACK OF SAMWISE GAMGEE.

I appreciate that, SmartAlienQT!

Thank you. Sam is my favorite character besides Legolas and Pippin. Stupid Rosie Cotton…

No, I completely understand. I mean, he’s definitely the most husband-y character I know. Does that make sense? Like, the most down-to-earth, the most calm and levelheaded, the least likely to cheat on you, the best person to start a family with. Did you see that ending scene in Return of the King where he comes home to his family? Awwwwww….

Damn, now I want to marry a Hobbit. Why aren’t Hobbits real?

Probably not. Not all women like their men so short that they spend all their time staring at your chest.

Not all women like their men so short that they spend all their time staring at your chest.

According to my calculations, Sam will always be too tall or too short to get a proper view of my bust. :)

And I suppose I’d rather have him cheat on me with a muffin than with Muffin-the-girl-next-door.

Who the heck names their daughter Muffin?

There was a character in Arthur named Muffy.

I love The Lord of the Rings.

I guess that's it.

Hey, we all have to have something to fanboy(girl) about ; )

No snotty elves for Tolkien, no sir, he made them into real people. And Legolas had some seriously creepy moments. Oh when he mouths off to Aragorn and Boromir in the books. Priceless. "Very well I'll go find the sun." *Prances over the snow*

Legolas does nothing much in the books. Gimli actually gets a bit more development, and both characters don’t really have that much of a reaction to the Ring.

I think Sam was tempted. As I recall, he had visions of himself as an omnipotent gardener, covering the world in beautiful gardens, which he overcame through his devotion to Frodo.

Moldorm is correct.

Anyway, because my sophomore thesis research project was on LotR, I thought it would be best to share the news here. After MONTHS of agonizing and pain, I have earned a 97% on the thesis and 106% on the presentation (I got extra credit for doing a video). That is such a relief off my back. It also makes me glad that I did my favorite book ever justice.

...sucks. No really, it’s just pictures cobbled together with horrible video taken on our family camera. I didn’t use movie footage because I didn’t know how. However, I did use the soundtrack, which made things marginally better.

bows with a flourish

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BE TRUE!!!!