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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     

    Because I thought it warranted a discussion. What do you guys think of poetry in a story? Just sort of mixed in with the prose, usually as dialogue.

    I know Paolini’s infamous examples are a definite point against, but what examples have you found of poetry working really nicely in dialogue?

    Tolkien had numerous examples of poetry and songs that were scattered through the story, from the Walking Song (“The Road goes ever on and on \ Out from the door where it began”), Frodo’s and Sam’s song about Gandalf (“The finest rockets ever seen: \ they burst in stars of blue and green, \ or after thunder golden showers \ came falling like a rain of flowers”), the Drinking Song, the Entish Marching Song, old Tom Bombadil’s song and on and on.

    However, that was Tolkien, and we all know he’s in a class of his own with that sort of thing. So what mortal prose have you found that used poetry or songs really nicely?

    I ask partly because I’m thinking of including a bit of a song/poem in my own book, because one of my opening scenes involves a foreigner singing in resturn for food and a bed for the night. (Most of the crowd will be laughing at his accent, but he won’t notice and will just go on with his poem). Is this a good idea? Bad? For what it’s worth, the featured poem is neither epic nor free-verse. (I have a particular hate-hate relationship with free verse, I’m trying to bring the old forms back into popularity. Rondels, kyrielles, sestinas, set rhythmic forms for which there are no names, forms that utilise repetition or words or lines for dramatic effect, etc. etc.) Also, the primary antagonist is a minstrel/troubador, so there’s bound to be at least some dialogue about or including lines of verse, or at least reference to the character’s previous works.

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    What I really really hate (and I know this is irrational) is when poems that are meant to be from another language RHYME!

    They don’t rhyme! They’re from another language and in translation they would end up not rhyming!

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     

    ^^ an excellent point. It is somewhat jarring, isn’t it? Or when figures of speech translate exactly.

    On poetry in general… I think it’s a difficult thing to put into most novels, because a lot of novelists may be perfectly good novelists, but only so-so with poetry. If it fits in the story (like Frodo’s poem/song in the Prancing Pony or Taku’s example above) and isn’t being lauded as TEH BEST POEM EVARRRoneoneone (looking at you, Paolini), I don’t have a problem with a poem or two being included.

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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009 edited
     

    Sometimes a skillful translator is able to make the English translation of a nonEnglish poem rhyme, especially if it’s a loose translation or utilises a lot of repetition.

    I think the best poetry in books is the unpretentious sort. Poetry that either is supposed to sound like it’s made up on the spot, or where the in-book poet or audience know when or that it is bad. The audience reaction to a spoken poem in-astory says a lot about how the readers of that book will respond, in my opinion. The more hammed-up the story-audience book (such as with Paolini’s wise, graceful elves going all bug-eyed and ‘oooh’ over Eragon’s piece), the more cynical the reader’s reaction is likely to be. mean, if the reader knows it’s not a good poem, but it’s being treated as excellent by the characters, the reader’s just going to roll their eyes at it. However, if the poem is bad and the characters react accordingly, the reader will enjoy the scene more.

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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2009 edited
     

    Does anyone know of any other books that mix poetry and prose like Tolkien did? I’d like to see some more examples of techniques to insert a poem or song seamlessly into the narrative, because I’m unsure of how to go about this without it blatantly being an Authorial Intervention, like a poetic intermission that completely breaks the narrative flow and takes readers out of the story.