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  1.  

    Guys, help the girls. Girls, help the guys.

    (Have you noticed I really suck at starting threads?)

    •  
      CommentAuthorAdamPottle
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2009
     
    Here is I is as promised:

    First thing guys notice about a girl they're talking to (just seeing a girl pass by is a whole crude kettle of fish) are:

    -Face (including expression, focusing not so much on things like eye colour etc than on shape, and the mouth in general (lips are barely looked over, more so teeth, whether the mouth is open or not. Hair is either 'long, short, or weird.' That's it. Bangs and colour are the only features we'll really process.

    -Height (relative to him).

    -Uh, yeah- those. Not lingered upon by the eyes at least. Usually not a make-or break thing.

    -Clothes-wise, unless it's a neat t-shirt or something really unusual (dirty, exotic, out-of-place,), we don't see much beyond tightness and colour.

    -Injuries. Burns, cuts, bruises, noticeable scars all catch a dude's eye, and not in a bad way unless, again, really strange or oddly placed.

    Hope I could be of some help, because now whenever I talk to a girl I'll be going over this in my head to verify it. Should post any amendments within 24 hours.
  2.  

    Thank you.

    That’ll be useful for me!

    •  
      CommentAuthorsansafro187
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2009 edited
     

    More than half of the chapters of my current project so far have been from a female PoV, and the most important thing I’ve learned is that you shouldn’t be that concerned about “writing like a girl” or “writing like a boy.” Gender does alter a character’s frame of reference, typically, but even among guys there are plenty of variation (check some of the other threads for things we disagree on, even about women) and I assume the same is true of girls.

    That said, I think AP did a pretty thorough job just now, and nothing seems way off base.

    One thing I would add though, is voice. It might just be me, but that’s one of the first things I notice.

    I’ll also say that I typically check out women without even realizing it, and often don’t even catch myself looking. The eyes are just trained to do that without my bidding, I guess. It’s awkward though, when the woman notices and you don’t really have an explanation.

  3.  

    For a girl’s PoV…I don’t know about the other ladies here, but I look at a guy’s face more often than the rest of him.

    •  
      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2009
     

    As a guy, I also tend to notice skin (talking guys OR girls); cleanliness, smoothness, marks or scars, etc. Especially in conversations when we’re in fairly close quarters. Yes, I’m only of those people who can have a perfectly ordinary-sounding coveration, but secretly be monologuing “That pimple-scar is the size of my nostril… how on earth did that happen…?” without any outwards signs.

    Also! No matter which gender, body language is important. The way the person you’re talking to is standing, what they do with their hands, the tilt of their head. These are things that I personally pick out, on a continuum from ‘agressive/dominating’ to ‘shy/intimitaded’, with ‘flirting’ somewhere in the middle of the two, b8t I tend to pick up on the extremes most.

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2009
     

    I have an issue with looking people in the face when I talk to them (especially guys… and not even just guys that I like, but guys in general), so I always notice their clothing first. I do notice if it’s not in-style very much, I’ll probably notice their hair somewhat, but I’m not really a girl that freaks out about my own looks, so I honestly don’t pay very much attention at all to their appearance. Especially if it’s someone I like- then I’m far too busy going “Am I acting normal? Can they tell I’m nervous? Do they like me?” to actually pay attention to what they look like!

  4.  

    I don’t look directly at him, of course.

    (cue stalker music)

  5.  

    As a girl, I look at faces first. It takes me longer to remember who people are if they look like most everybody else, but I remember more distinctive people. I look at eyes because I love eyes, and they can look so different. I notice their clothes, but I won’t remember them unless it was something really cool or different. I notice scars unusual marks, etc. For example, when I see penciled-on eyebrows, I can’t stop staring at them. They just look so weird and unnatural. If there’s something really strange about someone, I try not to focus on it because I don’t want them to catch me staring at a scar, mark, whatever. I notice hair color, style, long or short, greasy or clean. I’m usually wondering why they would cut their hair that way. I play with my clothes and hair when I talk to people a lot.

    That’s all I’ve got right now.

  6.  

    I agree with Neurotic Platypus.

    For the most part, however, (just throwing this out) I also can’t look at people in the eyes. If they stare/look at my eyes, my face, or me at all, I shirk away.

  7.  

    I don’t look them in the eyes when talking, more when they don’t know I’m looking.

  8.  

  9.  

    I don’t look them in the eyes when talking, more when they don’t know I’m looking.

    Yeah, I’m the same way.

  10.  

    Yes, I’m only of those people who can have a perfectly ordinary-sounding coveration, but secretly be monologuing “That pimple-scar is the size of my nostril… how on earth did that happen…?” without any outwards signs.

    I do that, too. And I’m a girl. Actually, I look a lot at people’s marks or whatever. I don’t notice clothes at all, but I look a lot at hair. And nails, if it’s a girl. I can’t really look people in the face when I’m talking, but when I do, I notice eyes. It’s actually kind of creepy. You know those funny moments where a character is talking and then says something like, “You really have beautiful eyes”? That’s me. I love eyes.

  11.  

    I do that constantly. Perhaps I don’t always mention it aloud, because I’m not brazen or whatever, but I’ll think it.

    Though I have said something like, “You have really lovely eyes” to this girl who had these lovely, greyish, bluish eyes.

  12.  

    I started to wax poetic while describing my sister’s eyes, as in, “Your eyes are like pools of rainwater, or drops of dew upon a sapphire.” She was creeped out, but after I described other people’s eyes with the same eloquence she named different people just so I could get loftier and more purple on the subject of their irises.

  13.  

    I love eyes too, but I am completely incapable of waxing poetical.

  14.  

    I just made that up off the top of my head. Fun tip: always make sure you compare your subject to anything sparkly and dead. So, jewels, metals, water, fire, smoke… basically, if you can make a statue out of it or see it while camping, you can use it for purple prose.

  15.  

    I’m a girl, but strangely enough, the first thing I notice about people is the sound of their voice… I dunno why that is, and I know it makes absolutely no sense, but there you have it! The second thing I notice is probably physical features; mostly hair and eyes. And then clothes, and then shoes.
    That’s about it I think… ;)

  16.  

    I notice voice also. The pitch and accent, whether they speack slowly or quickly, whether they pronounce words in a way that irks me.

  17.  

    I notice… okay, shame, but I notice hotness first. Pretty much the first thing I think is, ‘is he hot?’

    But then I don’t really think about it again. It’s pretty weird, actually, because I don’t even care if somebody’s hot or not—it’s more their personality that interests me. So that’s my un-shallow shallowness for you.

    Does anybody else do this?

    Second thing I notice is hair. I love hair. Third thing is… I dunno, body type, build. Whatever you want to call it. After that comes eyes. Not so much their colour but are they smiley or not? That sort of thing.

    •  
      CommentAuthorMoldorm
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     

    I usually notice clothing first, followed by faces and hair, unless the clothes are particularly revealing or flattering, in which case I tend to linger on the body for as long as is seemly.
    I don’t usually notice eyes until I start speaking to them, and then I try to avoid looking them in the eye for too long and appearing rude.

  18.  

    Yeah, I never know what to do with eye contact. With ANYONE. It can get quite awkward.

  19.  

    I tend to look people in the eyes for a while, and then look away at the right moment. I tend to be quite good at that. ;) All thanks to my first grade teacher…

  20.  

    Lol, it sounds like you’re flirting with people :)

  21.  

    I’m actually not a huge flirter… Meh, there’s no one to flirt with at the mo’...

  22.  

    Lol, someone sounds dissatisfied.

    But I try really really hard not to flirt, b/c I’m not going to date until I finish high school. It’s just hard when you’re naturally sarcastic…

    • CommentAuthorMorvius
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     
    I thought people like it when you are sarcastic? The nice ones don't really get much attention do they?
  23.  

    I think I confuse people because I am alternatively very sweet and rather stand-offish. XD

    •  
      CommentAuthorAdamPottle
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     
    I just act like a jackass so there goes any hope of a love life for me.
  24.  

    If you act like a jackass in the proper fashion it can improve your odds dramatically.

  25.  

    head tilt in thoughtful manner Because all girls want bad boys?

  26.  

    Only if the bad boy is sweet, sensitive, and supportive. ;D

    •  
      CommentAuthorVirgil
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     

    If you act like a jackass in the proper fashion it can improve your odds dramatically.

    All the girls like Dr. House.

  27.  

    The assertiveness is appealing, I guess, as long as it stems more from playfulness than some kind of deep-rooted mean spirit. I just know I was a jackass as a senior in HS and I was never more popular with girls.

    Of course, I can think of several other serious confounding factors that might weaken the observation, so take it with a grain of salt.

  28.  

    Lol @ House.

    I thought people like it when you are sarcastic? The nice ones don’t really get much attention do they?

    But having a quick wit often means you start to flirt without realising it. And then comes trouble.

  29.  

    Ain’t no harm in flirting, as long as the people you flirt with know it’s only that.

  30.  

    Yeah, but not everyone I know is Nate Winchester. Plus, you know. I’d rather just have friends at this point in time.

    Anyway. Back to topic.

  31.  
    Seconded, steph.

    I normallky try to counteract my wittiness (which is.....actually fairly sharp in RL, according to other people) with extremely closed body language. Meaning I just come off as a paradoxical friendly jerk.
    "She smiled. But her arms are crossed and her body is turned completely away from me. And she never makes eye contact. But she sounds happy. And she was friendly. But she's pretty caustic and sarcastic." *scratches head*
  32.  

    Which I think guys just take as ‘playing hard to get’...

    Anyway. Is there anything you notice in a girl’s POV writing that you wouldn’t notice in a guys, and vice versa?

    For my part, I see slight differences between the two, but I’m not sure exactly what they are. I think for one thing, girls can get away with being more articulate, and guys use more slang, etc.

    Am I stereotyping badly?

  33.  

    I don’t think so. I’ve noticed that as well, but I think girls will use more “slang” when it’s a light novel (not in the Japanese sense). You know, the type wherein there are emails and IM logs and constant mentions of texting and boys.

  34.  

    I do use different language depending on whether I’m in my male or female PoV, even though it’s third person limited. No contractions in the female’s narration or speech, more formal structure and bigger words. The narration during the guy’s chapters is basically the opposite.

  35.  

    Wow, we are so stereotypical. But then again, I guess the guy’s motto is: never use a long word where a short one will do. But I think you should include some contractions, sans.

  36.  

    Well, in my defense, it’s more about the characters themselves than about their genders, as the guy is something of a thug and the girl is aristocracy. That being said, since I’m ripping of Japanese culture wholesale, in any given situation female speech “should” be more formal than male speech.

    You, I don’t know what your excuse is.

  37.  

    My female lead sounds a bit British in the way she speaks, in some ways. At least, I can imagine someone saying her dialogue with a British accent. Because she’s royalty, she uses longer, more complex sentences and has a better vocabulary than the male lead, who is barely literate.

  38.  

    It’s just what I notice.

    •  
      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2009
     

    First thing I tend to notice about people are either their voice, posture, or scent. It depends upon the situation, but voice and scent are really big for me. If your voice is annoying, I will not talk to you for your own safety lest I throttle you. If you smell bad for whatever reason, especially breath-wise, I will flee as fast as humanly possible, politeness be damned.

    As far as clothing goes, it simply isn’t a priority for me except when it’s something someone always wears (in which case, it really throws me off when they don’t wear it), or if it’s just so eye-catching for whatever reason. Two instances that come to mind are this one girl with really short shorts that made her butt look HUGE and like it was swaying several inches up and down with every step she took, and this other girl who had a gorgeous hourglass figure but was wearing skinny jeans and a skin-tight bright yellow shirt so she had this huge muffin top that from the back looked like a second butt… I swear, I don’t make it a habit of staring at girls’ butts; it’s just that those two were like trainwrecks. Couldn’t look away.

    Anyway, in conversations, I look people in the eye else I’m looking in the general area of their face. I’m faceblind, meaning I don’t recognize faces easily, and a bit nearsighted so I focus more on other things like hair color and length, body build, voice, and scent to recognize people. I also tend to recognize people based on their ears…

    So yeah. I’m not exactly typical.

    But having a quick wit often means you start to flirt without realising it. And then comes trouble.

    Especially when the other person is of the same sex and happens to be gay, but you didn’t know that. Awkward.

  39.  

    My female lead sounds a bit British in the way she speaks, in some ways. At least, I can imagine someone saying her dialogue with a British accent. Because she’s royalty, she uses longer, more complex sentences and has a better vocabulary than the male lead, who is barely literate.

    Same as mine! Cool!

    Also, I tend to remember people the way I see them most. So, say a this guy is sitting next to me – I’ll remember his profile more than his face straight on. Or, in the case of another guy, I memorized the back of his head since I was looking at it all semester. Whatever I see most, I’ll remember.

  40.  

    But having a quick wit often means you start to flirt without realising it. And then comes trouble.
    bq. Especially when the other person is of the same sex and happens to be gay, but you didn’t know that. Awkward.

    Umm… okay?

    My female lead sounds a bit British in the way she speaks, in some ways. At least, I can imagine someone saying her dialogue with a British accent. Because she’s royalty, she uses longer, more complex sentences and has a better vocabulary than the male lead, who is barely literate.
    Same as mine! Cool!

    Keep in mind that there are like a zillion British accents. The one you’re probably talking about is ‘RP’, Received Pronunciation.

  41.  

    Which is…?

  42.  

    The generic one?

  43.  

    Ok, then.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpanman
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    The generic one?

    Is there such a thing?

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    I always thought there was one “British accent”. Then I started watching Doctor Who… and I realized that, shockingly enough, there’s at least as many variations on a British accent as there are on an American one!

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpanman
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    If not more. Probably more.

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     

    True. We’ve got a million sub-dialects (for example, my parents grew up less than two hours apart… and have slightly different accents), but not so many major ones…

  44.  

    I claim that over East the Australians sound more like Kiwis, but nobody believes me. They all say that Australia has no regional accents.

    (RP is the one the Queen uses.)

    And sorry for resurrection. But this is an interesting thread, and its writing-related, too… so…

  45.  

    There are actually a lot of American accents, but I’ve never actually heard a difference between, say, a New England accent and a Chicago accent. I can tell the variations in Southern accents, but that’s a well-tuned as I get.

    Speaking of accents, is there a difference between the way guys speak and the way girls speak?

  46.  

    I think so. Generally, I think they sometimes use different words in repetition; many girls say “like” more often than the guys.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpanman
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2009
     

    Mostly the difference between the way girls and guys speak is in expression and yeah, choice of words. In my humble opinion. I rather think that girls are much more capable of actually saying a billion words without really saying anything.

  47.  

    I rather think that girls are much more capable of actually saying a billion words without really saying anything.

    I modestly agree with your humble opinion. I think that guys would just tend to stop talking instead of saying meaningless words.

  48.  

    I rather think that girls are much more capable of actually saying a billion words without really saying anything.

    I agree.

    Question: “Are you going to the party tomorrow?”
    A guy non-answer: “I dunno, maybe.”
    A girl non-answer: “Well, Jessica was gonna go to the mall with me and Amber and Terri, but then she got mono from making-out with Billy. Terri can’t come anymore either, ‘cause she has to watch her little brother, and I don’t really wanna spend that much time alone with Amber, ya know? So I asked my mom if I could come, and she was all, ‘Whatever.’ And I was all, ‘Kay, thanks.’ But, ya know, like, Jennifer is gonna be there, and she is such a jerk! So, I dunno, I might go, maybe.”

  49.  

    I lol’d. That sounds like me, only not with so much blonde hair and bubblegum and shopping.

  50.  

    A girl non-answer: “*I dunno, maybe.*Well, Jessica was gonna go to the mall with me and Amber and Terri, but then she got mono from making-out with Billy. Terri can’t come anymore either, ‘cause she has to watch her little brother, and I don’t really wanna spend that much time alone with Amber, ya know? So I asked my mom if I could come, and she was all, ‘Whatever.’ And I was all, ‘Kay, thanks.’ But, ya know, like, Jennifer is gonna be there, and she is such a jerk! So, yeah, I dunno, I might go, maybe.”

    I’ve edited it very slightly and now I could swear that I’ve heard things very similar.

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2009
     

    “Well, I dunno, like I was going to go to the mall with like Jessica and Amber and like Terri, but then Jessica like got mono from like making out with like Billy, you know? And like Terri can’t come anymore either, because she has to watch her little brother, which is sooo lame, like what is up with that, why can’t her mom watch him? But anyway, so I’d have to go with Amber, and I like don’t really want to spend that much time with her, you know? Like, she’s OK in small doses, but, like, shopping with her? By myself? No way. So I asked my mom if I could come to the party and she was all like “Whatever”. So I was all like “‘Kay, thanks.” But like I think Jennifer is going to go, right? And she is such a herk! So like I dunno, I might go, maybe.”

    My version. Sounds disturbingly like myself, only without the shopping part because I hate that.

    •  
      CommentAuthorApep
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2009
     

    This is getting a little scary…

  51.  

    My response:

    “Depends on how much homework I have.”

    Which is my way of saying: no freakin’ way.

  52.  

    My response: “I’ll have to ask my parents.”

    That way, I can blame them if I don’t go, or act ecstatic if I do.

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2009
     

    Heh, SMALIEN’s response actually sounds pretty similar to how I get out of everything… “Oh, you would not believe my parents, they are so strict! They don’t let me do anything!”

  53.  

    I actually got invited to something on Friday. That’s like a world first.

    It’s also not a drinking thing, it’s in an actual restaurant. For the town I live in, that’s also a world first.

    ...wait.

  54.  

    I like this topic. OK, I have a question: a guy meets a girl for the first time. What would be the difference between the girl starting the conversation, and the boy starting the conversation?

    For example, I immediately branch off of anything I notice about the person. Say he’s wearing a Metallica T-shirt – I’ll ask him about his opinions on metal, if he considers himself a metalhead, etc. Or if we’ve been introduced, and someone says, “This is my friend Rob from London,” then I’ll ask him about England, what it’s like there, how closely BBC captured the true Britain, things like that.

  55.  

    Say he’s wearing a Metallica T-shirt – I’ll ask him about his opinions on metal, if he considers himself a metalhead, etc.

    That’s what I do. Or I tend to ask them if they like any of the stuff I really care about- what’s his taste in music, books, etc. If we share a similar class or something, I can probably go off a tangent on that note.

  56.  

    I think your approaches say more about you as individuals than it does your gender.

  57.  

    Hmm, that could be. I didn’t think of that. But isn’t there a difference between how guys and girls introduce themselves?

    • CommentAuthorNo One
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2010
     

    Probably. I normally clam up if I see a new guy. Or anybody new, basically. That’s shy for you. Then there’s friendly girls who will greet nicely, girls that are quite rude, boys that gives a soft “Hi” and boys that comes over and chats to you straight away. Oh, and boys that tries to speak to you but fails ‘cause they’re shy. There are also boys that just look at you and then ignore you.

    Just some of the approaches that I’ve observed.

    Then when it comes to introducing, it’s anybody’s game. But IMO, girls are more likely to introduce themselves while boys are more reserved.

    I’m sure I can rattle off some more, but I’m rather anti-social so I don’t normally do the intro. All made by observations.

  58.  

    I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before, but I think sometimes we get too caught up in wondering about how guys vs girls act, and forget that people first and foremost are people with individual personalities. There are stereotypes, and there are traits common to (though not exclusive to or always present in) one gender or another—but people are as varied and complex as the . There will always be guys who prefer porn in literary form and girls who feel the need to be respected above the need not to be alone (common traits to the opposite gender. My ‘how guys’ and girls’ brains differ’ book says so. Do not question it.)

    I think the thing you need to remember when writing a character is to do just that—write a character, rather than a gender.

    Then again, you have to pay attention to things like girls notice clothes more than guys do.

    Thanks to sansafro for triggering this idea in my brain. Thanks to me for starting it and having no idea where to finish up.

  59.  

    You’re right. Of course, I have always written in a more character-oriented rather than gender-oriented way, which kind of made me worry whether my guy still actually sounded like a guy.

    •  
      CommentAuthorArtimaeus
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2010
     

    There is a difference I think. I was writing a story in 3rd person limited from the PoV of a male character, but I used entries from one of the female character’s diary for transitions between the scenes. This confused a a couple of readers who thought that the 1st-person voice sounded male, and didn’t connect it with the female character in the 3rd person sections. I suppose this is a good reason to specify the gender of a first person protagonist early, unless you’re trying to be ambiguous.

  60.  

    I wrote a short story for CW class once in which the narrator was female, but never stated it explicitly beyond lots of little hints, but she spent the whole story doing “male college student” things like downloading porn, making nerdy references, posting on imageboards, and having no social life. I think at least half the class probably thought she was male.

    I learned the whole “write the individual before the gender” lesson from it though, so I think it was a success. Gender should inform character to an extent though, depending on the character’s society.

  61.  

    I learned the whole “write the individual before the gender” lesson from it though, so I think it was a success. Gender should inform character to an extent though, depending on the character’s society.

    This.