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You didn’t follow his advice, so the miffedness was rather unjustified.
I used softer pencils as he advised, and look what I get:
I second what Virgil said.
Every artist needs to try different techniques if they wish to improve. One’s style will change, and you should be willing to adjust.
Well, I think it’s a improvement, Brandon.
Hey, Brandon. You don’t have to take our advice, like Dia said, every artist has different styles. We’re just trying to help.
Sorry I got upset. I must have misunderstood what Virgil said. Still, I need to take a break from this forum. It’s not like I’m the most well respected forumer here anyway.
You have my respect for sticking to your opinion, at least.
You know what Brandon, fine. You barely follow a word of my advice:
- Get softer pencils – yes
- Don’t draw definitive lines – no
- Sketch, don’t outline – no
- Shade in small circles – I can see the circles you made christ’s sake. When I mean small circles, I mean practically dots that blend together to give an even shade.
- Use shadows to reveal form and have depth – no
- DON’T DRAW ANIMALS – NO
Then, after one practice image of not using anything I told you, someone remarks that its too ‘etchy’, whatever that means. Then I get a snappy response from you in return. If you don’t want my help and would like the opinions of the people on those message boards, go over there and ask what they think. Look, if you never change what you draw or how you draw it, you’ll never get better.
Clearly someone whose opinion matters. Not to mention, “etchy” isn’t a word.
Look, Virgil, I’m sorry. I misunderstood your advice.
No Brandon, you didn’t read my advice. Next time at least do that.
Hmmmm… Well, at least you’re better than me at sketching. And my sketches aren’t too bad, if I say so myself.
.... my sketches sucks compared to yours…
Brandon, if you follow Virgil’s advice, you’ll get something like this:
The top picture was completed with 4B and 8B pencils. I used just a regular 2HB for the bottom one.
Now, while I used a slightly different technique (lines instead of circles) there’s still smooth transitions in shading from one area to another. I’ve found that lines and crosshatching work best for textured or angular surfaces while small, barely-visible circles work best for smooth or round surfaces. Also, the amount of pressure you put on the pencil has a huge impact on how dark or light your pencils are, not to mention how easily erased they are. It’s also a good idea to invest in a good eraser. A good eraser picks up the pencils, does not leave a ton of eraser dust, and will not smear your lead.
IS THAT BOTTOM PICTURE A WOLF!? COOOOOOOOOOL!!!
You’re a very good artist.
The bottom picture is only showing half of it, the ears. Is that on purpose or accident?
It’s your computer. I can see the whole thing.
Here is a painting I’ve worked on on and off for the last month. Its based on some of my photography, the middle being the background of a forest out of focus, and around the edges the subjects of various other photos from August.
I just wanted to know what you guys think of it. Anything really… technique, subject, placements, etc. etc.
Ah, so it is. Fixed now. And I’m even more impressed than before.
@Pearl: It seems kinda strange to me… Don’t ask me how, it just look strange to me. And how did you get the… ummm… blurry background of the forest in the middle? Just splash paint all around?
Kyllorac that woman is quite good, and yes the lines work well because of her hair. I think it could have done without the shadow glow behind her, but still looks good.
Very nice, Kyllorac. How long did it take you to draw those?
Kyllorac, the first one is really nice. I especially like the contrast with the light and dark over it all.
I like the wolf too. He/She looks cuddly.
@No One: I know it’s strange, and it doesn’t have a real subject or point. I was mostly using it for experiment purposes. But I still like it (I’m biased :P)
^^ Well at least you have the guts to experiment. Me, I’m a little afraid.
I think it could have done without the shadow glow behind her, but still looks good.
In this case, I blame the scanner I was using for slaughtering much of the contrast. The shadow glow looks quite nice on the original and doesn’t blend into the hair.
@Pearl – Acrylics? I really like the border. As for the center, this may be due to the camera and glare, but the colors look a bit muddy to me. I’ve never gotten the hang of acrylics (they dry much too fast for my liking), so I don’t have any suggestions for techniques.
@Puppet – Around three hours for the first and about an hour for the second. The first picture was done two or three years ago, back when I was still figuring out how to render hair, and the second I did just a couple months ago.
Ah, then yeah scanners do that. :|
@simian – That’s so cute. :D The lines could be cleaner, though. I personally scribble rough lines and smooth them out by erasing. Also, don’t be afraid to play around with the thickness of your lines. It’ll get you something like this:
It also helps to have a program with layers so you don’t have to worry about accidentally erasing lines that you already refined.
simian, that picture is pretty awesome. xD
Very nice, Kyllorac. Clean, smooth, sharp.
Kyllorac, I hadn’t gotten around to “treating” this image, yet. I use a vector program (the open source Inkscape) to smooth out the lines from the scanned image. I’ve never been one to mess around too much with thickness in lines, though. I’ve never really gotten the logic behind it (when it should be thicker or thinner), and so it ends up looking awkward when I try.
I have Inkscape as well. Lovely program. :3
In general:
Outlines should be thicker than inner detailing.
Areas of shadow should be thicker than areas close to light.
The closer something is to the viewer, the thicker the outline, and vice versa.
Thick lines emphasize the presence of mass; thin lines emphasize a lack of it.
Too many lines of the same thickness next to each other result in a sense of flatness.
Practice and experimentation are the only ways you’ll figure things out for yourself. :P
But I don’t wanna’ figure things out for myself. I wanna’ be instantly good at everything, like a Gary Stu!
May I eat your brains and gain your knowledge?
You could try, but I’d gun you down with my arsenal before you even got close, zombie. :P
What’s so bad about zombies?
Nothing, so long as they don’t go trying to eat my brains/turn me into one of them.
Anti-zombite.
Kyllorac, I would kill to see some of your magna/anime. I bet it’s epic.
I’m jumping on the bandwagon late, but I have to say, great stuff, Kyllorac!
I did make a really weird random drawing when I was in India of nothing in particular, but I don’t have a scanner to post it with.
Do you have a camera, SWQ? You could take a pic and post that.
@Kyllorac: Did you use a computer program to create those? If so, what? It’s great!
Yes, but nothing particularly fancy. I used the Shi-Painter Pro applet on the NeondragonArt.com oekaki boards.
I used to dabble on iscribble.net, but I wasn’t very good with the digital art. It’s neat, the things you can do.
Well, if you ever do decide to get into digital, OpenCanvas is an excellent program. It’s designed for people with a strong background in traditional media and handles wonderfully. You’ll need a tablet with pressure sensitivity to experience all the features, but it’s as close to traditional painting as you can get digitally. I’ve been using it since the free version 1.1 (as buggy and untranslated as it was) which you can still find floating around the internet. The newest version is worth the money, though.
/gushing
@ Pearl: Yeah, I guess I could probably figure out how to snap a picture and upload it. (Can you tell that I only use technology when I absolutely have to?)
I have Corel Painter X (came with a huge discount with my tablet) and it works fine for me.
Kyllorac’s stuff is really good. :)
I highly recommend to everyone trying to take an art course in college. I eventually failed out of mine (the art majors were wiping the floor with me), but I still learned a ton. It’s pretty evident now that I go back to digital arts.
Random character sketch I was doing. I think this is a steampunk setting, but I’m not sure where my notes are.
Nicely done, Sly.
wow. That’s really great!
That’s quite good, Sly. :D Very manga-esque… I really like it.
Yeah, it does look manga. That’s pretty good stuff, Sly.
Whew, impressive Sly! You’d be a great manga writer. (Artist? Writer?)
I have a question and I need the answer fast ‘cause today’s the day that I have to submit this artwork and I haven’t even started!!! Must stay calm. Breathe in, breathe out…. panic (Damn laziness and procrastination!!!!)
What type of pencil would be the best for a 3 people portrait? Any advice/tips?
I was in a bit of a sketchy mood, so ta da. Yes, I’m much too lazy for proper toes or hands or heads. Shut it. :D
Er, I’ve fixed the bum. :)
Hrm, the torso and the leg on the left look a bit warped, but other then that not bad… it seems to express relief and joy in a way.
Is that a face on the torso?
Yeah its the left shoulder and right leg (its perspective) are a bit off. Meh.
Er, not intentionally Dan.
Oh, Virgil, do I have your permission to do a redlining? I think it’ll be easier if I show you the points I think could use work on rather than try to write them out.
P.S. Sly, how did you fail? You have a great grasp of anatomy, composition, and proportions. Those art majors must have really been something.
Oh, Virgil, do I have your permission to do a redlining? I think it’ll be easier if I show you the points I think could use work on rather than try to write them out.
Sure but its unlikely I will go back and fix it. Though I’m welcome to see where I can fix it.
I was browsing through some photos when I came upon a drawing I did in 2007. I was what, 10 years old back then. I have no idea why I drew it, except I think it had to do with some competition. Anyway, I found it and decided to post it on here for the mere fun of it.
scrutinises the drawing The title is called Happy Family and it’s not very good, compared to the real image of it. The leaves could’ve been a bit bigger, and I’m afraid my drawing skills has very slowly been degrading since then. The shading of the fur sucks. I sure wasn’t that careful back then. And the shading of the background. You can see that I was careful in the top left corner, but as I progressed with the drawing, I got a bit lazy and used wider cross-hatching. But then, I was 10 back then.
By the way, I have no idea how to resize it as I used imgur. So I edited this whole comment and decided to use a link instead. Much better.
Feel free to criticise.
My first digitally colored drawing:
@No One
... is the image showing?
Nope. Hiding an image crops it to the page’s width.
Oh, and SigMirror is a much better host than Imgur.
Oh whoops.
Fixed.
Edit: Is sigmirror a free, online service?
...You might want to try resizing it so people can see it all at once without having to scroll to the side.
And how do I do that?
Just change the picture dimensions on whatever art program you use, or you could use the thumbnail version from Imgur.
No need. But thanks anyway Puppy.
No problem, Mud.^^
Another digitally colored piece by me:
The eyes… the guy on the right looks like he’s about to puke, while the person on the left has a little white spot that needs to be filled in the eyebrow.
Also, you should fix their poses, they look awkward, and in some parts their bodies look flat while other parts don’t.
The eyebrow issue has been fixed:
I thought the guy on the right looked more like he has some sleep deprivation and drank too much coffee. Didn’t bothered to comment though. And Puppy here’s right. Especially the right guy’s pose. Somehow, (and don’t take it to the bone) he seems like he’s scared, holding his poop and in very bad need to go to toilet, has feet problem and probably had a wedgie so that he can’t hold his business properly. The Egyptian guy’s the same, except he doesn’t need to go to the toilet.
Oh wait, maybe the blondie’s more like he ABSOLUTELY HAS TO GO TO TOILET and he had a mega-wedgie. But first, he must pose for a picture.
That’s what the picture’s telling me. Don’t take it too seriously, I’m no expert.
I see what Puppet says about the poses. I think this is mostly because the legs are sprawled at such awkward angles. I realize that it’s probably easier to work with them spread apart if you’re not used to the medium yet, but in future, try using a more natural pose.
I see what Puppet says about the poses. I think this is mostly because the legs are sprawled at such awkward angles. I realize that it’s probably easier to work with them spread apart if you’re not used to the medium yet, but in future, try using a more natural pose.
I’m used to drawing people with spread-out legs. Maybe it’s because a lot of my how-to-draw books have a comic-book-hero theme, and comic book heroes sometimes stand like that.
I can see you’ve taken my advice to heart Brandon. Well done.
It didn’t even apply here. You were talking about traditional rendering. I’m going digital now.
I’m used to drawing people with spread-out legs. Maybe it’s because a lot of my how-to-draw books have a comic-book-hero theme, and comic book heroes sometimes stand like that.
That’s the problem with that drawing, when you see superheros like that they look confident, strong and, well, like superheros. Those two have that pose but their faces look like they are going to be sick.
Brandon, it applies everywhere.
If you have trouble in maths, like basic multiplication or division, you don’t give up and start doing quadratic functions and logarithms. You don’t have a grasp of basic drawing skills, so ‘going digital’ (what does that even mean, by the way? going into paint and dumping colors?) won’t magically make your stuff better.
I see it especially in the blond/Viking/barbarian man. The fact that he has lines underneath his eyes (making it look like his eyes are bulging) and his lips are pressed thin really does make it look, like No One said, that he has to go to the bathroom.
I’m no artist, Brandon, but this is what I do with writing, and it might apply here. When you go back to fix this drawing, don’t try to overwhelm yourself with all the suggestions that you’re getting, but pick the comments that you find repeated most often and focus on those first.
For this one, I’d definitely say focus on the faces and the posture of the men, especially for the blond/Viking/barbarian man.
Virgil, I don’t mind getting constructive criticism, but having thought over the advice you gave me earlier in this thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that it was nothing more than stylistic snobbery and defeatism with regards to certain subject matter.
Let’s start with your assertion about lines. I’ve seen a lot of perfectly respectable, professional-looking pieces of art that had the same kind of “liney” quality you want me to avoid. Take this for example. It’s a very good piece of art in my opinion, and so far it’s been favorited 8,382 times on Deviantart, and it has lots of black lines both outlining and inside its forms. Lines may not be strictly necessary for a good drawing, but they aren’t necessarily detrimental as you claim.
As for your wanting me to avoid drawing animals or humans (things you yourself have admitted you can’t draw), that is just defeatism. If you have trouble drawing a particular subject matter, you don’t give up and avoid it, you practice drawing it properly. If you give up on certain subject matter, you’ll never learn how to draw it.
I may not be the best artist in the world, or even that good, but I know terrible advice when I see it, and sorry, that’s what you gave me.
@BrandonP: You may not be the best artist, but you’re certainly better than me. ^ ^
What program did you use for your digital drawings?
Photoshop Elements 6.0.
Is it part of Flash Professional 4.0?
I mean, CS something 4.0?
Dunno.
Eh, OK. How did you create those digital drawings? Do you use the mouse, draw some line and then filled it?
Actually I digitally drew over something I drew on paper.
Oh, OK.
Okay Brandon. Let me break down your argument, but expect it to be the last piece of criticism I ever give your artwork.
Virgil, I don’t mind getting constructive criticism,
Yes you do, in fact, and everyone on this forum is well aware of it. You can’t stand having your precious creations torn apart, so you just give up or not listen to them entirely.
Let’s start with your assertion about lines. I’ve seen a lot of perfectly respectable, professional-looking pieces of art that had the same kind of “liney” quality you want me to avoid.
There are plenty of ‘liney’ pieces that are very well done, and if you took from my advice to never ever draw lines because ever piece that is ‘liney’ is bad, you are sorely mistaken. However, with your drawings, you have strong outline without any three dimensional skills. You could just as easily but out bits of construction paper, and they would resemble your work.
Take this for example. It’s a very good piece of art in my opinion, and so far it’s been favorited 8,382 times on Deviantart, and it has lots of black lines both outlining and inside its forms. Lines may not be strictly necessary for a good drawing, but they aren’t necessarily detrimental as you claim.
I find it greatly amusing you value the strength of a piece by how many times its been favorited on Deviantart, but I digress. Its quite clear now you completely missed the point I was trying to make about lines.
As for your wanting me to avoid drawing animals or humans (things you yourself have admitted you can’t draw), that is just defeatism. If you have trouble drawing a particular subject matter, you don’t give up and avoid it, you practice drawing it properly. If you give up on certain subject matter, you’ll never learn how to draw it.
Haha, Brandon, I can draw people an animals, and I will say with confidence, I can do it much better than you can. But I still have trouble with it. I’m not ever satisfied with my work and will easily begin to see flaws in anything I’ve done, and try to improve upon them by getting critique. You do the opposite, simply drawing the same things over and over, reinforcing a bad habit.
And again, you missed another one of my points. I told you to stop drawing people an animals (advice you so pointedly ignored before calling my advice shit), because you don’t have a good grasp of basic drawing principles. You don’t jump into the deep end of the pool not knowing how to swim. Go back, master the basics, then move up to drawing what you love.
I may not be the best artist in the world, or even that good, but I know terrible advice when I see it, and sorry, that’s what you gave me.
If that’s what you feel, you’re entitled to that. But don’t ever expect to get any better.
@No One
Is sigmirror a free, online service?
Yep. You need to get an account, but that doesn’t even take five minutes. And you have unlimited space, hotlinking, and thumbnails.
@BrandonP
I’ve stayed out of this for a while, but I can’t any more.
VIRGIL IS RIGHT.
Virgil, I don’t mind getting constructive criticism, but having thought over the advice you gave me earlier in this thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that it was nothing more than stylistic snobbery and defeatism with regards to certain subject matter.
Really? Having seen your art, I COMPLETELY agree with him. Everything is flat, lopsided, grotesquely-proportioned. Using the same line thickness everywhere makes it look even worse.
LEARN proportions, LEARN foreshortening, and LEARN pencil technique BEFORE you start thinking that you can draw living things competently.
Let’s start with your assertion about lines. I’ve seen a lot of perfectly respectable, professional-looking pieces of art that had the same kind of “liney” quality you want me to avoid. Take this for example. It’s a very good piece of art in my opinion, and so far it’s been favorited 8,382 times on Deviantart, and it has lots of black lines both outlining and inside its forms. Lines may not be strictly necessary for a good drawing, but they aren’t necessarily detrimental as you claim.
That piece looks decent because it has decent proportions. That said, it also looks like somebody took a watercolor set to a coloring book.
And it doesn’t even look all that good. It’s hard to make giant meat-eating theropods look like sissies, but that artist did a great job of it.
As for your wanting me to avoid drawing animals or humans (things you yourself have admitted you can’t draw), that is just defeatism. If you have trouble drawing a particular subject matter, you don’t give up and avoid it, you practice drawing it properly. If you give up on certain subject matter, you’ll never learn how to draw it.
“Defeatism”? Really? How so? Anyway, even if he’s never picked up a pencil in his life, he has eyes. Do you need to be Steven Spielberg to know that Battlefield Earth is a horrible movie? Do you need to be Ferruccio Lamborghini to know that the Trabant is a worthless automobile? You’re as bad as the Inheritards who say that, because he isn’t a published author, SlyShy has no business criticizing the Inheritance “cycle”.
And you aren’t practicing “drawing it properly”. You’re using the same horrible technique over and over again. It’s one thing to say that you need practice; it’s another thing entirely when you clearly have no clue how to do what you’re trying to do in the first place.
I may not be the best artist in the world, or even that good, but I know terrible advice when I see it, and sorry, that’s what you gave me.
Wow. Egotistical much? I’m a rather mediocre artist myself, but I can see when something isn’t done right. I wouldn’t have a problem if you had a reasonable opinion of your work (you don’t see me parading my robots and spaceships around like they’re worth looking at), but your ego is inflated beyond belief. How do you know that Virgil’s advice is “terrible”? Because he didn’t agree with you. That’s definitely going to make you improve.
By the way, I absolutely love how you “showed” that Virgil’s advice didn’t work by essentially disregarding almost everything that he said. Oh, you shaded in little circles? Obviously, it’s Virgil‘s fault that your drawing didn’t look any better than the others, despite the fact that you did EXACTLY THE SAME THING that you were doing before (aside from the internal lines, which you just removed without bothering to subsitute smooth shading, making your drawing ugly and amorphous rather than ugly and sharp-edged).
Alrighty, Virgil. I’ve finished your redline. I hope you can make sense of it. XD
Overall, you have a good eye for mass, but you need to study musculature and bone structure a bit more so that you can give your forms more definition. Also, though this is more personal preference, I think the torso could have used a bit more curvature; right now, it feels a bit static and stiff to me.
Kyllorac is good. :-)
Brandon, I very seriously recommend you begin with drawing instruction instead of cartooning instruction. Read something like Jack Hamm’s Drawing the Head and Figure instead of something like Drawing Superheroes With Fetishized Proportions.
It’s fine if stylistically you want to do comicing, but the best comic artists all begin with traditional drawing. People who do comic book art still have fine arts training old school style.
Your current artwork lacks an understanding of translating the 3D to the 2D. The challenge of art is expressing volume, value, form, etc. onto a flat canvas.
t’s fine if stylistically you want to do comicing, but the best comic artists all begin with traditional drawing. People who do comic book art still have fine arts training old school style.
This is the absolute truth. In order to exaggerate or stylize something, you must have an intimate understanding of how the original works. I have a couple artist friends who have made it in the art world (one of them works at Pixar), and they all have a mastery of the traditional aspects of drawing (perspective, proportion, form, color, lighting, composition, and technique).
Kyllorac is a good art critic. xD
Brandon, to be honest, your drawings look like cartoons characters pretending to be real people.
Thanks Kyllorac! I would have responded earlier but was in a lecture.
I do know a bit about musculature but not enough to render it very well. [lame excuses] That was also my first bit of drawing in a while. [/lame excuses]
Though one thing I hadn’t noticed was the lower right leg is behind the upper leg, so thanks. I may go back and fix it. :D
I do know a bit about musculature but not enough to render it very well. [lame excuses] That was also my first bit of drawing in a while. [/lame excuses]
Study study study, practice practice practice. ;P
If I can find it again, I’ll link you to an excellent site for referencing musculature and skeletal structure geared towards artists. I just hope it’s one of the links I’ve organized, otherwise I’ll have to go fishing through thousands of bookmarks. ^^;
Oh! I just figured out how to do the hide thingie! feels proud
Anywho…
I just did two drawings and I’d love input.. (Like, tear to shreds please!)
Drawing one: is just a weirdo drawing I did for my friend… But it’s kinda growing on me.
And Number two A charcoal drawing of my brother. I don’t think I’m great with Charcoal, but I do want to get better so I have to try it again don’t I?
A couple of sketching pieces, the first one shading practice and the second one consisting of inanimate objects:
I really like the shading on the cone in the first piece. Very nice. The chairs are decent but look slightly off- I’m not sure how. Stool is well shaded and looks real.
Ooh, those’re good. Just one thing, though—looking at it, I think what you’re doing is drawing things as you think they look rather than how they actually do. It’s what I always did/do, too—I took a drawing class a couple years back, and it took me ages to figure it out. Especially with the really common inanimate objects, because they’re drawn so often and are everywhere, it’s hard to separate it—try to ignore that you know it’s a chair or a pencil or whatever it is, and just draw what you see, instead of what you think you should be seeing. At first it looks really odd and looks nothing like what you’re drawing, but keep at it and the pieces come together. Focus on little itty bits of the things at a time.
Overall though, ^^.
The pencil is actually quite good, Brandon.^^
Great sketches, Brandon. I especially like the stool. The shading on it is really nice. To make your shading smoother I suggest buying blenders or simply rolling your own, if that’s something you want to do.
Did you draw that, Pearl?
@ Puppet: Yes. It was a project for my art class. I drew it on sketch pad paper with an 8B pencil.
I’d just like to say that the face is amazing. The detail, the wrinkles, the eyes, well, everything.
The hands do look a little awkward, it’s hard to tell whether it’s the hands of the person in the picture, or somebody else’s hands.
Thanks, Puppet.
Hmm.. yeah I see that now. Probably I could remedy that by adding the shadows around the face. In the photograph there are very dark shadows around his face that his hands sort of melt into.
Here’s a weird, abstractish piece that’s meant to be my practicing foreshortening objects.
If anyone knows a better way to learn foreshortening, I would greatly appreciate listening to your advice—-and I promise I will read it carefully this time.