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    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2011 edited
     

    Most of everyone here is an aspiring writer, right? If your book were to end up on the shelf one day, why should I bother picking it up? Don’t tell me about the cover or what’s at the back. What’s inside that people just have to read about? Is your character relatable? Do you appeal to a trend (a specific genre) that everyone’s really into? You can answer this without revealing any plots, if you’re private about that kind of thing.

    Do you have a completely different take on life? Do you feel you’ve broken any traditions and are proud of the fact? Same questions apply if you’re more of a poet than a writer. What’s so good about it? Do I get a glimpse of your heart and soul if I read it?

  1.  

    I think Rorshach said it best on the podcast. Writers are arrogant people. I assume (or at least I hope) that things that are interesting to me will also be interesting to other people.

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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011
     

    I think if you’re going to take that attitude the game’s already over. One does not pick up a book on the shelf because one was told to, or because someone made a compelling argument. At the end of the day, the only reasons one picks up a book are out of curiosity and a thirst for new experiences. Sure, sometimes you pick up a bad book, but if you’re going to force every book to justify its existence to you before you’ve even looked beyond the cover, you’re not going to read very many books, are you? I would want you to pick up my book because you are curious and interested and want to see what it’s about, not because I’ve stood in front of a screen yelling about the Themes and Ideas and the ground-breaking Artistic Style and trying to shove my work down your throat like a poorly-rehearsed Home Shopping host.

    Beyond that point, isn’t this entire forum about trying “to make characters relatable” or “to break a trend” or “to make a certain element work”? Seems a bit silly to me, to try to confine the largest part of the writing focus of ImpishIdea to a single thread.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    I wasn’t attacking anybody, asking them to justify their book’s existence. I just wanted to know what makes it stand out. What you’re most proud of. Not just whether or not it might be an interesting story, but if you did something that’s not usually done, like making efforts to introduce your own philosophy into it or whatever, that’s all. I didn’t mean to make it sound as if you needed to have arguments to provide to anyone so that they should buy your book. Just your opinion as to what makes it good. Everyone thinks their stuff is good, but for specific reasons, right? But yeah, all right then.

  2.  

    i personally think it makes sense as a thread though i dont know how much longevity it has

    for me well i guess swordfights and ninjas and gnashing of teeth in inner conflict

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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011
     

    I wasn’t attacking anybody.

    To be fair, you did use some very confrontational language, and phrased your questions in such a way as to prompt me to react defensively.

  3.  

    I thought it was an interesting question. I will choose to look at it as in once someone has read the first few chapters or finishes it, what do you like about your story that you think others will like and thus will make them want to actually continue reading instead of giving up because it sucks, or think wow that was pretty good when they finish instead of being eh I just finished it for the sake of it. Or something.

    As for my story well it’s just the COOLEST FUCKING BOOK EVER I AM A LITERALLY GENIUS AND ANYONE WHO WOULDN’T LIKE MY BOOK IS AN IDIOT!

    I’m come up with a real answer later maybe.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    @TakuGifian: I suppose your reaction was quite fair. I tend to fire off questions when I’m very curious about something and I didn’t think to rephrase anything because people around me are used to this and don’t ever take it offensively. Man, I’m sorry you felt the need to be defensive in the first place. The confrontational bit was totally unintentional.

    To clarify, I’m genuinely interested to hear about any thought-provoking points that anyone introduced into their story. I wasn’t trying to say: Oh well, if you’re not breaking any rules or anything, I’m not reading your book. No.

    I for one, introduce my characters as being very spiritual. Their training depends on it. And many of my characters are female and I portray them in such a way that I sometimes feel uncomfortable that children might read this some day. But I like what I did because I felt that I was original and did an okay job. Especially the bit with the spirituality. Being at peace with everything, the good and bad, is very important to me and I introduced this in the story even though it might be a complicated subject. I thought I did a good job of it and I’m quite proud of it. Just wanted to know if I was the only one in that kind of situation.

    Also, I honestly didn’t think people would mind boasting about their brilliant ideas. Other writers I know, my friends especially, enjoy sharing their fantastic stuff so that people can ooh and ahh over it. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a little praise for damn good ideas.

    @sansa: I like that. Just a mention of the words “swordfights” and “ninjas” is enough to get me to pick up that book. But that’s just me.

    @happycrab: I admire how humble you are. Really, I do. :)

  4.  

    lol I said literally instead of literary. I like to think that was on purpose.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011
     

    Shhh. No one noticed. Play it cool. :)

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      CommentAuthorSoupnazi
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    My stories are often injected with little subversions of tropes and cliches. Despite my tendency to let some of my main characters fit into cliches, I pretty much abhor them and avoid them at all costs (unless it’s necessary). Plus, I think my stories are interesting.

    Also, I must say I’m incredibly thankful for what this thread actually is. When I first saw it I was like “whoa, is this some sort of suicide note?” which would not have been pleasant in the least.

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      CommentAuthorSpanman
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011
     

    I actually like the confrontational way you put your questions, because it reminded me of being in a job interview (not that I like those) and having to be able sell my skills in order to get a job. It’s rather like writing a cover letter to a resume, actually. Not that I’m going to have to justify the contents of my book to everyone who picks it up, but in order to keep my writing from being just a hobby, it’s good to ask myself why anyone would want to read it. And because I’m great at avoiding questions, it’s good for someone else (namely, you) to ask them. :D

    Anyway, generally I write stories that I want to read. A lot of the time when I finish reading a book or series, there are aspects of the story that I didn’t like or that felt incomplete or there were things I wished were included in the story that weren’t. So when I write I try to make a story that includes everything I want it to include, and begin and end in exactly the way that I want it to. I like to think that that’ll be enough to satisfy other readers, but of course it probably won’t, so a lot of the time when I’m writing I ask myself, “Is this part/scene/character/topic only interesting/relevant to me, or is it something that someone else reading it could enjoy or relate to?” Of course, the answer isn’t always yes, and I don’t always change my writing to accommodate it, but I’ve always thought it a good idea and it keeps me from being too long-winded about things, which I am inclined to do.

    Also, I write about love triangles and apocalypses and cool weaponry and epic conflicts, so I guess you could say I’m buying into some of that annoying instant-gratification crap they call literature these days. :D

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      CommentAuthorWulfRitter
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    I actually like the confrontational way you put your questions, because it reminded me of being in a job interview (not that I like those) and having to be able sell my skills in order to get a job.

    That’s a good point. What Sen is asking is essentially what we’ll be asked by an agent or a publisher (probably both) when we take our books out into the world and try to convince people to pay money for them. It’s also a question for which I struggle with finding an adequate answer. I think that for all my willingness to be a dick in real life (sorry, world, I’m working on it blushes) I lack the confidence to think that something I write would be worth a person paying money – or spending time, for that matter – to read.

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      CommentAuthorhappycrab91
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    I like the stuff on job interviews. I think my ideas would be worth a person paying money for, but not the execution. Needs a lot of fine tuning, fixing and fleshing out.
    Hmm relatable characters. Well the main guy has a strong bond with his little sister so there’s that sibling love some people might have. He’s cocky but not in an asshole kind of way so that probably wouldn’t relate to the majority of readers. He has daddy issues. And I’ve got some bullshitty highschool drama sort of stuff with a bully and a crush so there’s that. So far.
    Basically I am trying to do a Harry Potter where there are lots of little mysteries and things that all come together in an I hope clever way. I haven’t read as much as i should have but I’m sure that not many authors have that level of plot threads all intertwined and coming together so brilliantly as JK does. Though JK had 7 books and I have 3.
    And my thing is a journey while in HP we keep revisiting the same location and characters every year so the plot threads are more confined and she is able to slowly develop characters like Snape in amazing ways. Right now I don’t think I have that many characters with secret pasts and stuff so I’ll work on that. My story doesn’t have (not that it needs it) lots of huge events that happened in the past like the last fight with Volde.
    I’m rambling and shouldn’t be comparing my story to HP but whatever that’s the sort of thing I’m trying to achieve. There probably won’t be anything amazing like SPOILERS a MC’s rat turning out to be the man who betrayed someone’s parents END SPOILERS but in the confinements of my story I think I’ve got some good stuff.
    I am trying to make it a little bit anime-like. The magic system, world building and such allows for fights on a larger crazier scale without it getting too ridiculous for something that isn’t a cartoon (I hope). I think some of my locations are very extraordinary. And I simply think it has/will have exciting awesome action and events that will excite and intrigue the reader. Not really forcing any themes I think but I guess there is the sibling love one if anything.
    As for breaking trends and stuff, I have looked at some tropes and cliches and am trying to purposely subvert them. I think I’ve done something different with plot coupons, prophecies and chosen ones. I want to also avoid bullshitty love stuff with the guy getting the one and only girl for him. I think my main problem with my story is I’m too blunt with some things. HP is pretty subtle. But maybe that’s because I know my own story.
    I think that is all….

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      CommentAuthorBloo
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011
     

    Hmm. I think you should read mine because my main is pretty damn awesome. You know all those YA books and movies where the love triangle is between the goofy childhood friend/nerd with a personality and the moody jerk who eventually wins? Well, Theo is the goofy, nerdy childhood friend, he’s already got the girl, and although his relationship with his girlfriend is healthy and very much there, the main plot is focused on the vampires in the community.

    Oh, yeah, and the vampires aren’t nice. They’re mindless bloodsucking monsters, created from the bodies of dead werewolves and controllable only by necromancers. Theo is a necromancer and so decides to involve himself in it, then ends up way over his head.

    One last cool thing: none of the supernatural characters are angsty. Nearly all the main characters are werewolves, and they all live in a fairly tight-knit, predominately werewolf community. The only new werewolf is Theo’s stepmom, who chose to become one after three years of being married to Theo’s werewolf dad; everyone else was born one and is alright with that. There is no I-am-a-monster-because-I-have-epic-powers whining, no prejudice.

    I think it’s awesome.
    Also, Theo thinks in tropes on occasion—he doesn’t mention the site, but he has mentioned things like “fanservice” and “taking levels in jerkass.”

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      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2011 edited
     

    Why should you not? Anyone who’s bothered to more than glance at a work of mine obviously found something worth noticing at first glance — the title, the subject, the cover, whatever. It’s not like the contents are immediately visible at a glance, and a summary only does so much in representing the piece.

    But let’s say we have none of those trappings. Let’s say we have nothing but the piece itself. Why do I think someone should bother to read it?

    Why not? Curiosity is a rather powerful motivator for some, and those are the some I write for.

    I write to explore things, to find the wonder in them. If someone else wants to come along for the ride, that’s great; the more, the merrier, after all. But if they don’t want to come along, it’s no loss to me. The main drive behind my writing isn’t to make money or to reach a wide audience; I write because I’ve found something interesting that I could explore and wonder about, and I figured there was at least one other person out there that would be interested in exploring and wondering about it, too.

    Everything else, like money, reaching a wide audience, or even publication, is just an added bonus.

    So why should you pick up one of my works? Because you might find something interesting inside that will lead you to wonder and explore on your own. And because if you’ve bothered to pick up my work just because it was there, your curiosity has already gotten the better of you.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011 edited
     

    @Kyllorac: That’s a fair point. Sorry if you felt I was being either intrusive or just plain rude. I was only interested to know what you’re proud of. Sometimes people like to bring across some strong stuff with their writing and are satisfied when they’ve done a good job. I just wanted to hear all about it. And I can agree with the following:

    Curiosity is a rather powerful motivator for some, and those are the some I write for.

    I write to explore things, to find the wonder in them. If someone else wants to come along for the ride, that’s great; the more, the merrier, after all. But if they don’t want to come along, it’s no loss to me.

    Everything else, like money, reaching a wide audience, or even publication, is just an added bonus.

    Yeah.

    One last cool thing: none of the supernatural characters are angsty.

    Your stuff sounds awesome, Bloo, but this has to be my favourite bit.

    I have looked at some tropes and cliches and am trying to purposely subvert them.

    I’m working on avoiding these as well. Very often, when I step back from something, for example, after I’ve written a lot of stuff revealing the personality of a character, I realize how too perfect I made him/her. It’s a long process for me for some reason to get where I need to be.

    Anyway, generally I write stories that I want to read. A lot of the time when I finish reading a book or series, there are aspects of the story that I didn’t like or that felt incomplete or there were things I wished were included in the story that weren’t. So when I write I try to make a story that includes everything I want it to include, and begin and end in exactly the way that I want it to.

    I do the exact same thing.

    Also, I write about love triangles and apocalypses and cool weaponry and epic conflicts, so I guess you could say I’m buying into some of that annoying instant-gratification crap they call literature these days.

    Well, I wouldn’t call it crap if you’re writing it your own way. It sounds like you’re aware of the bad stuff that’s put out there and this will help you avoid making the mistakes that many people do when using ideas that sound really good, but they end up making a mess of it. Keeping that kind of thing in mind and knowing what to avoid, your work’s gonna turn out great, I think.

    @Soupnazi: Sorry for giving you a nasty scare. And it’s good to know that you can avoid clichés as I have some trouble with this.

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      CommentAuthorKyllorac
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011
     

    Sorry if you felt I was being either intrusive or just plain rude.

    Waitwhat? o_O

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011
     

    I honestly thought you were offended at my tone. Someone else was a bit defensive and it sounded as if you were as well. You said something about the contents not being immediately visible and I thought you were pointing out that it was a very stupid question to ask because the reader has no way of knowing what’s inside until he opens the book. Which is true. I don’t know, I wasn’t sure what to make of your response because everyone else pointed out specific stuff in their work. I understand you wanting to be private about your work. I only apologized to make sure I didn’t get you mad or anything. Yeah, I know it may sound weird, but I worry about that kind of thing. I just do. Can’t help it.

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      CommentAuthorInkblot
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011
     

    Haha, this is surprisingly tough for me to answer.

    I guess I really just pour everything I have into what I write. My motto is “Write the best damn book, period.” So I would hope that some of that enthusiasm and shed blood would be catching. I write about real people and give them as much of their inherent three-dimensionality as I can, and hopefully they will catch the interest of someone.

    I don’t actually know. Hahaha. Great thread, Sen.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011
     

    I really just pour everything I have into what I write.

    I write about real people and give them as much of their inherent three-dimensionality as I can, and hopefully they will catch the interest of someone.

    Inkblot, I absolutely love hearing this kind of thing. Commitment to writing is important to me, so this is good to know.

    My motto is “Write the best damn book, period.”

    Good motto :)

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      CommentAuthorFalling
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011 edited
     

    Hm, I’d like to think I’ve done something unique- making a Dwarf in a Dwarf kingdom my main character for one and thus developing a Dwarf kingdom much beyond they drink beer and mine lots. Of course to make the economics work, they end up looking like a lot of other pre-industrial societies…

    But a very early decision I think pushed my story into different territory. I abandoned a Hobbit/LotR’s hybrid and needed a new plot that wasn’t a rip off something else. My biggest struggle was coming up with a magic system that I could be intellectually and theologically consistent with the implications. I couldn’t rehash LotR’s (and I didn’t fully understand what Tolkien was doing anyways) and I didn’t want Narnia/ Archives of Anthropos style magic. And I certainly didn’t want to rewrite Pilgrim’s Progress which is where all my ‘magic’ systems would end up getting to stuck on. So I created a fantasy story with no magic in it all. I’ve since added it back in as I have a better idea of how to use magic. However, what it did mean at the beginning is the plot couldn’t revolve around an Evil Overlord TM or a magical trinket/ MacGuffin that would destroy the entire world.

    Instead it focuses on the Dwarves trying to overthrow a human conqueror while the other nations stand aside for going to massive war again (think WWI balance of powers). However, individual soldiers are sneaking over the border to help on one side or the other.

    But yeah, I’ll agree to the notion that it’s primarily my arrogance that I assume other people will enjoy reading what I write. :) I never really think of myself as arrogant, but I can’t get it out of my head that someday, somebody is going to want to read what I write. Yeah, I guess that’s a little arrogant, but it’s hard to operate in any other headspace. Hopefully I’m not delusional- then I need a Simon Cowell telling me that is the worst thing they ever read- ever…