Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories

Vanilla 1.1.8 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.
  1.  
    This thread will just be about my writing questions. I thought I'd better make a single thread instead of multiple ones that ask different questions. So, here I go!

    I've been reading the ImpishIdea Brisingr critique comments for the past few days (they're endless O_O) and a comment by an Eragon fan really stood out to me.

    /Quote

    Tim:
    And the “filler chapters”, Lachlan Mac, develope the story and the characters in a way a “straight-to-the-point” story could never achieve. I think the next book will be a great book.

    /endquote

    Now, how do people feel about this statement? In my story I've wanted to do a reverse-Paolini and get into the storyline straight away. Trying to stay interested in Eragon for about 10 chapters of no action was nigh impossible for me.

    The first chapter of my story introduces two main characters and their friendship; the second chapter introduces some other main characters and throws the two separate groups together in a chain of events that then moves the plot forward, with chapter three (hopefully) emphasising the potential danger they're in while adding more characterisation to my group of characters, all the while giving them the proverbial boot up the arse to get their act together.

    Is that TOO quick? Should I focus on developing character interactions and backstories? It just makes me wonder because in The Philosopher's Stone you don't even learn that Harry is a wizard until the end of the fourth chapter. Am I rushing things? Or is a swift introduction to a story a good thing?
    •  
      CommentAuthorPuppet
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    I think it’s a bad excuse, personally. Yes, using simple language will usually result in a lower overall wordcount, but it’s still up to the author to properly pace the story. In terms of character development, I think that Eragon fan hasn’t read enough books. If you’re direct and “straight-to-the-point” you know exactly what the character is thinking and what his actual feelings are, as opposed to unnecessarily wordy and ambiguous. You don’t need “filler chapters” to develop characters.

    • CommentAuthorSen
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011 edited
     

    ...Just so you know, I tend to go off on a tangent. I think you deserve a warning. Also, I can’t comment on the first bit because I know nothing about Eragon. Okay, so just so you know, my own work sounds a lot like yours. It’s a fantasy story so I made the choice to just jump in because I didn’t feel that the reader should get the impression that my made-up world was so damn special that it should get about 26 pages of just describing the world and how things work in it and how it’s different from our own world and what objects we have here that are similar to my made-up world, but may go by different names, so…I just made the choice to plunge in and wrote in a way that would allow the reader to take everything in his/her stride.

    Yeah, I don’t think you should worry too much about what went on in Harry Potter because that thing took forever to get going, but that’s just how J K decided to write it so don’t look too much to that as your guide. Harry Potter’s great, but not exactly your essential guide.

    Should I focus on developing character interactions and backstories?

    Since I managed to get the story going at quite a steady pace (I hope, or maybe I’m being too hopeful) and my chapters weren’t exactly 15 pages long, they were a little longer than that, I had plenty of opportunity to show what my characters were like through their speech and mannerisms. Maybe you’ve done this? Or are your chapters really short ? For me, it worked out okay. By the third chapter my character’s already been thrown into training, but I would not have written it out any other way. Her situation is meant to be confusing once she finds out her true identity so the constant turmoil throughout the entire beginning is suitable.

    Now I don’t know what you’ve written, but if the danger element is most important to your story, then I think you should keep the rapid pacing. As for backstories, mine were sort of spread out throughout the story from the fifth chapter onwards. Can’t just load off a whole lot of information onto someone can you? I also tried to keep it as non-random as possible. As in I didn’t just have a character suddenly be all like: oh by the way, did you know I once…?
    I tried to write in these pieces in which an informative piece on someone was very important to a current situation or another character’s problem and then the other would attempt to relate to them through telling them of their own past and how their experience is similar.

    And introducing danger into the third chapter, like you did, doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I usually expect things to get going by the third chapter or I lose interest. So…yeah, I’m sorry if I didn’t help at all.

    •  
      CommentAuthorInkblot
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    The most interesting and generally successful way to start a book that I’ve seen is launching into one to three chapters of intense action, and then settling down into backstory and exposition.

    • CommentAuthorWiseWillow
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    See, what Inkblot just said? In moderation, that’s fine, but I get really, REALLY annoyed if the book has tons of action, without explanation. A quick action scene to start? Sure! Four chapters of WHAT IS GOING ON I DON’T GET IT? No!

  2.  
    Oh lord no, constant scenes of action would bore me too! I like to mix up the tempo of my chapters. There's action scenes in each of my first three chapters but they don't make up the entirety of the chapters. They're mixed in between dialogue, character development and plot advancement. Chapters four-five slows things down for a while before things pick up again.
  3.  

    I think events (and more importantly, how people react to those events) builds the character and builds the world more than so-called ‘filler’ chapters ever would. It’s more efficient, but also more effective.

    As far as Harry Potter goes, I think the slower start works for multiple reasons:
    1) Rowling’s description of the Dursleys was pretty sharp and entertaining
    2) it was the proverbial unloved-mistreated child story (which I personally loved as a child- what that says about me I don’t know) and did set up for future events in a way that was subtle and interesting at the same time.
    3) It was entertaining.

    •  
      CommentAuthorBlueMask
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    I think the best- and hardest – way to work backstory and character development in is subtly. While other is going on, for example. This is really hard to do without slowing the pace down, but if you can work it in, it makes the whole thing much better. Such as, la snippet of information that makes the reader stop and go “Oh, that’s interesting”. And while it might be a cliche to begin with an action scene, it’s a cliche for a reason. I personally don’t mind chapters of exposition about the world, as long as it’s entertaining. And doesn’t info dump.
    I realize that I have contradicted myself several times, and this all makes no sense.

  4.  

    ‘Events’ don’t necessarily have to be ‘action’. They’re things that happen…but for a reason, which develops the story as a whole. They can be as subtle or obvious as you want.

    From what I understand, Brisingr was essentially a bunch of scenes cobbled together.

    @ Blue: Made sense to me!

    •  
      CommentAuthorBlueMask
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    Thanks, and i completely agree with you.

  5.  

    I think the best- and hardest – way to work backstory and character development in is subtly. While other is going on, for example. This is really hard to do without slowing the pace down, but if you can work it in, it makes the whole thing much better. Such as, la snippet of information that makes the reader stop and go “Oh, that’s interesting”. And while it might be a cliche to begin with an action scene, it’s a cliche for a reason. I personally don’t mind chapters of exposition about the world, as long as it’s entertaining. And doesn’t info dump.
    bq. I realize that I have contradicted myself several times, and this all makes no sense.

    Yeah I think that’s my main problem so far. I am too blunt. Like I have a character state why a character acts the way she does as soon as you meet her instead of the reader gradually learning why she does. I will likely change that. Right now he’s all “I know you bla bla bla because you bla bla bla and want bla bla bla but bla bla ba”

    My story doesn’t start with an action scene or a big history narration or something. It’s sort of more akin to Harry Potter’s intro. There’s a little bit of a mystery kind of thing with an unfavorable character with a lot of narration like lotr with all the explanation of The Shire. Then there’s some conversations and stuff that gives information important to chapter 2 which changes the setting and characters completely. The first chapter spans over a month. This was all necessary for my story rather than jumping straight into a fight to try to hook people in. I thought it would be a nice change of pace. But of course action prologues can be great.

    And about the whole writing woe question, maybe if the random scenes were more relevant and had actually good characters who actually developed that would be a good idea, but I’d try to stick to actual plot more. I’m trying to work in a decent amount of action every few chapters of non-action or at least have some interesting things instead of just talking or things that make no sense (damn old man Eragon met in the desert or whatever). Like previously there probably would’ve been a long section of non-action, so I’m planning to throw an assassin in the middle of it. Don’t worry it makes a lot of sense for the plot.

  6.  
    I've just realised that while I've kind of written out the plot line for my series, I might have to rewrite the entire thing to accommodate the new surge of ideas I'm having.

    Part of me's a little miffed that some of the hard work I've put into plotting out the story will have gone to waste, but the other part of me is looking forward to reworking the story into something that works much better and is more coherent and complex.

    Has this ever happened to anyone else?