It’s like I can’t go two steps on this forum without running into somebody’s thread about their new fantasy story and all of the worldbuilding that’s going into it, and I’m like, “Why? Seriously, why?” Show me a post about plot or characterization, and I’ll show you five with maps or names or spells or whatever it is that gets filed under worldbuilding. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a thread that went into diversions about so-and-so’s family tree or whatever word’s etymology or some timeline or other that’s going to get stuck in the back of the book – assuming that the story even makes it to that form – in an appendix, but never once gave me any idea about what actually happened. And isn’t that the point?

Even in other threads, there’s always someone who chimes in with, “Yeah, my magic system handles that with…” or “My elves do something like that…” and I just know that they’re focusing on that instead of their story. Why? Is there some reason to sort out all of these pointless little details up front when the plot is (generally speaking) not bound in any way by specifics like that? Sheesh; you’d think that these people were designing RPGs or something.

And I just know that they’re going to have so much fun designing their marvelous little worlds for a few months or so, then get sick of them, realize that they don’t have anything to actually use them for, or just continue adding to them indefinitely, and there’s no story after that. I know this because so many people start threads about these things and invariably abandon them – and it isn’t like they’re doing this because the real story gets its own thread, because it never does. Prove me wrong.

Yeah, I know that there are people here who actually write stuff and finish it. And they often do have some kind of framework for their stories’ backgrounds. This thread is about everyone else, the kind of people who think that geography plus cultures plus magic equals EPIC FANTASY NOVEL, like it’s some kind of template or formula whose variables get filled in in lieu of actually writing. The only person who got away with using his stories as an excuse to draw up maps and timelines was Tolkien, and that was only because he was a genius. You’re not him, so quit trying. It doesn’t work that way.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh. This idea was originally going to be an article (the one that I mentioned in this thread), but I never got around to writing it, and I couldn’t make the concept work within that framework anyway. That was months ago; I’m only posting “it” (in quotes because this post contains absolutely nothing from my original drafts; I wrote the whole thing in about fifteen minutes on the spur of the moment) here because coming back reminded me of just how right I was – I’d figured that I’d blown the whole thing out of proportion – and because I’m pretty sure that the more informal tone of the forum would suit it better.

So, yeah, flame away. Also, what is it with fantasy in the first place? Why do people write next to nothing else here? I blame Eragon.

@Jeni

I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve said. This thread is for people who get carried away with it at the expense of actual writing.

@Jeni

I just wanted to contribute. ;_;

Have a chocolate. Or a Christmas tree. Or a chocolate Christmas tree.

@sansafro187

Setting’s important in fiction whether you’re writing fantasy or not. The Wire wouldn’t be The Wire if it wasn’t set in Baltimore, and ASoIaF needs its history and geography in order to work.

You do have a point there. I probably overracted; heat waves can do that to you. Still, though, not every story is The Wire or A Song of Ice and Fire. Most of the worldbuilding that I see is just as likely to be completely irrelevant as it is not.

That said, it’s awfully easy for amateur writers to overinvest in that kind of minutia, because it’s an excuse not to do any actual writing. Thinking of stuff is easy, and putting words on a page is hard.

That’s basically what I was getting at.

I see your point. I spend too much time plotting and not enough time actually writing. I am trying to change that soon. Probably when my holidays are over and education starts and I have all this work that should be higher priority. World building isn’t tooooo important to my story but it kinda is. I most likely won’t be drawing any definitive maps at least where I mark every little location and mountain.

I don’t even like high fantasy that much, having read and watched almost none of it. And yet here I am plotting one I’ve had in my head for so long that I feel it deserves to be written some day and make me rich. But I also have other ideas I want to write and will sometimes switch between them. One is a supernatural kind of thing that I think would work well as a TV show (how would one go about pitching an idea to TV producers…? Especially when I live in Australia and the US is where all the good shows are made), one is a romance movie script designed to cash in on all the idiots who like things like Twilight, one is a parody sci-fi (but not set in space or anything) action graphic novel like Scott Pilgrim. So yeah I have other genres and ideas and mediums but my fantasy is first priority.

For the most basic argument, it’s the pure enjoyment of the act of creation. Sure, we could buckle down and actually work, but that’s too much like, well, work. I’m far more interested in the behind-the-scenes worldbuilding I can do. I enjoy it, it’s a mental challenge that takes me in many different directions, and I’m not realistically expecting to make anything of the vast majority of it.

It’s the adult’s equivalent to a young child playing make-believe and just running randomly around during recess¹, in the sense that it’s all about indulging our imaginations and senses without trying to confine it to concrete goals and expectations and responsibilities. I have enough responsibility and expectations and deadlines in my life as it is, imposing the same thing on my “free play” will just create that much more stress (which, need I point out, is exactly what free-creative worldbuilding is meant to reduce).

At least, that’s the way I see it.

¹ Interestingly, a recent study indicated that a decline in unstructured play in preference to games with teams and rules is adversely affecting children’s emotional and social development. It’s just as important for adults as kids, but kids simply express it more openly.

So first of all, I know I spend way too much time planning fantasy, and talking about planning it. You know why? Because I really find it hard to write fantasy. It’s probably because it’s not my thing, but there’s a story in my head that wants out, and it needs a solid framework to work on.

Also in my case, the worldbuilding does affect the plot. Where my faeries come from (fallen angels from heaven who didn’t quite make it to hell or hell’s creations of pure mischief) will determine how they act, speak and think, how insular their society will be, their characters, how (and IF) they can be saved from themselves, how they use their magic (which affects a few major plot twists), what they’re doing on earth, and even more. All of which directly affects my plot. And I can’t get into the nitty-gritty of plot details until I flesh out the worldbuilding to my satisfaction; all of which is taking a bloody long time.

By the way, that’s the story I tend to talk about most on this site, and it’s the only full-on fantasy thing I’m writing and probably ever will write. I post about it a lot here, because it seems that I run into more problems with it than I do on any other story. But I’m not a high fantasy writer. I don’t want to be, because I’d rather write things I desperately want to read, and most of what I desperately want to read doesn’t fall under high fantasy.

As for the high concentration of fantasy posts here, think about it — sci-fi, every-day fiction, and kids’ fiction all seem to sort of take care of themselves. I don’t know why, but for some reason fantasy always requires more effort. Maybe because you’re building a whole world from scratch, or trying to seamlessly lay another one on top of it. I don’t know.

Also, what is it with fantasy in the first place? Why do people write next to nothing else here?

I’m one of those plot-first worldbuilding-second people that you discounted earlier, Jetman, but I wanted to reply to this question, though I will probably be repeating points brought up earlier. And also, this is super late.

I love fantasy (and sci-fi- two sides of the same coin, IMO, but I prefer fantasy personally). If something doesn’t exist that fits your idea, you build it. I think that’s part of the appeal. You’re not bound by ‘reality’ to a certain extent. I think Taku mentioned the joy of creating, which is obviously inherent in any form of writing, but I feel is doubly present in fantastic fiction. When you worldbuild, you start noticing more about the world around you, the way things are and why and how they became that way. You start thinking a bit more about the way that things could be, not necessarily only on a plot-based level (what if I had a dysfunctional family undergoing a tragedy etc. etc.) but on a more fundamental level as well- political, social, and so on. There are no rules, except the ones you create. That’s incredibly powerful.

That probably also contributes to the fact that it’s a hard genre to write well in, like Steph pointed out. There’s so much involved in addition to the standard plot, characterization, and writing that makes it interesting, but more challenging as well. Like I mentioned earlier, you have to be able to understand this world to a certain extent before you can go out and create a new world that’s even slightly convincing. In that sense it’s a rewarding genre both in the writing and in the planning. You can include tragedy, romance, mystery, and amazing writing to a fantasy piece- it’s one of the most flexible genres out there in almost every sense. Contrast that to say, literary fiction.

Nothing against it, of course, and I can’t account for everyone else’s writing preferences, but I’ve always attributed my love of fantasy to the fact that it’s very inclusive. What’s possible is what you make possible- you can incorporate absolutely any interest or idea that you have into a fantasy/sci-fi framework, at least, that’s as far as my own experience goes.

And to return to worldbuilding, I think it serves a storytelling purpose of its own, if you do it right, even if you never try to make a novel out of it. The reason I’ve always loved history is that it is essentially the overarching story of everyone who’s ever lived. Fantasy allows you to make history. If that’s not inspiring I don’t know what is.

@No One

Also, do you absolutely have to stick to the definition of whatever genre you choose? Can you just write a story without worrying about genre?

No. Where did you ever get that ridiculous idea?

@No One

From all your talk about “high fantasy”, “fantasy speech”, etc.

I see that you didn’t click the link. I was being sarcastic; read the thread and you’ll see exactly what I was talking about. You don’t even have to read the whole thing, just Ctrl+F “genre” until you get to the end.

Also, what is it with fantasy in the first place? Why do people write next to nothing else here?

I’m not writing fantasy. I gave up writing it a few years ago, because I couldn’t come up with anything that hadn’t been done to death.

Ooh, I really haven't been on here awhile.

I'd say mainly because it's so much fun to worldbuild. It's also one of those endless things, which I think is what you (the op) are pointing out. I think Writing Excuses with Brandon Sanderson et al suggested that fantasy writers sometimes get trapped in endless research and world building. In the end, we still need to write. On the other hand, I sometimes run into some issue that I absolutely must worldbuild else it won't make sense. But then things that sometimes needs further explanation and further. So it can spiral out of control.

But it's that sub-creation of a secondary world that's essential to both fantasy and sci-fi. A modern story simply relies on what we already know. In fantasy/sci fi, it's A Whole New World that does not necessarily have the same rules. So those rules need to be created.

When you have no limits, it’s easier to stick to what you know.

THIS.