I just created a character on DeviantArt who has an elf father and a human mother, and it got me thinking, has anyone encountered a romance between different “races” (humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, etc.) in a fantasy story? I know there’s Eragon/Arya in Inheritance, but I don’t recall any others.

BTW, when I say “fantasy”, I’m excluding paranormal romance-type stories like Twilight, so no vampire romances.

who would all be a human male with an elven female.

Is it typical in fantasy for the elf to be the woman in the relationship? I recall someone in another forum saying that blonde elf women were common love interests in fantasy.

Ugh, I don’t know why I’m spamming this thread.

Don’t worry, Breeze, you’re not spamming at all.

Is it typical in fantasy for the elf to be the woman in the relationship?

To some extent. It’s a fantasy version of the whole Magical Pixie Dream Girl thing, I guess. There is a very obscure Tolkien example of a romance of sorts between an elf man and a human woman, but it doesn’t really ‘count’ and it’s so obscure I don’t even remember the names.

Yeah, there certainly is that element. Unless you use ‘race’ to denote different human subgroups, it’s just another way of looking at interspecies ick.

Besides, unless they were genetically human, an elf couldn’t bear children from a human (or dwarf, or whatever) due to genetics. Or it could, but the result would be stillbirthed or sterile, and/or possibly seriously messed up.

Besides, unless they were genetically human, an elf couldn’t bear children from a human (or dwarf, or whatever) due to genetics.

Not necessarily. If humans and dwarves/elves/hobbits are subspecies of the same species, they can still breed. If they’re different species, but in the same genus, there might be problems of sterility (mules come to mind), but then again, there might not (ligers can have cubs with “pureblood” lions or tigers, for example).

Also – the human boyfriend/elf girlfriend thing is very common in fantasy with a (vaguely) medieval setting. On the other hand, the human girlfriend/nonhuman boyfriend thing is annoyingly common in paranormal romances that are set in a modern world like ours. I’m sure I don’t have to give you examples.

Is it typical in fantasy for the elf to be the woman in the relationship?

In Dragonlance, Laurana is an elf… but her hubby, Tanis, is a half-elf.

I recall someone in another forum saying that blonde elf women were common love interests in fantasy.

Laurana is a gorgeous blonde. However, she was first written in the 80s or something, so I think a lot of those “blonde elf babes” are copied from her.

It’s a fantasy version of the whole Magical Pixie Dream Girl thing, I guess.

Good point. Never thought about it that way.

I myself once created a character that was five eighths human, one quarter elf and one eighth dwarf.
Yeah.

My problem with interspecies (or intersubspecies) relationships is always, how on Earth are you going to be able to relate? On one hand you have a thousand-year-old elf who’s going to go on living for another several thousand years. On the other, you have a twenty-five-year-old human who’s going to die in less than a hundred years. Their worldviews are going to be completely different. And (this is a more minor one, I know), the aging difference! From the perspective of the elf, their partner ages in a blink. From the perspective of the human, their partner is never going to age. That has got to be difficult on a relationship.

That would depend on whether one’s elves are ridiculously long-lived like the stereotypical pseudo-Tolkeinseque kind. The ones in my character’s world aren’t.

Swenson hits the nail upon the head. As does Jeni.

In my own WIP, I was planning on including a romance of sorts between an immortal being and a mortal character which doesn’t work for a variety of reasons. Ultimately, the immortal actually forgets his former love (though whether he actually loves her or is just bored and wants something to chase after is another question) and everyone moves on.

This whole issue could make an interesting short story, actually. Thanks for the idea, you guys. :D

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the dysfunction of a relationship with an immortal is pretty well demonstrated in Watchmen with Dr. Manhattan and Laurie (as well as his previous lover).

Most Writers Are Human, Jeni.

Most Terran writers are human. 8P

I’ve been toying with the idea of a human/elf romance, but there’s one problem which involves my worldbuilding. I’ve imagined my elves to have a very individualistic culture—-so individualistic, in fact, that they will rarely help strangers if they can’t get anything tangible in return and can’t be bothered to unify under a cohesive government. Such a race would probably come across as very selfish to humans, so I’m not sure if a human/elf relationship could work.

Most Terran writers are human. 8P

Of course.

why yes I do love genetics and incorporate a lot of it into my stuff

Same here.

some political separation

Yeah, of course you have to look at that, too. Fantastic Racism and the like. In a lot of fantasy out there, the hybrid MC is shunned from both sides because the two species (human and whatever else) don’t get along. This is a bit of an overused thing, IMO – although putting in either racism/a hybrid character instead of both can still work.

Then there’s Nagasaki Moon where I think there will be exactly 2 “matching” couples in the whole thing. (hinted at or shown in the first book) After that, it’s lego crack pairings all around! And not an ordinary human to be found…

I think I know who’s going with whom…;-) When are you putting up the sequel, Nate?
And what does WiP stand for?

WiP == Work in Progress

Oh okay. How did I miss that?

No, this is separation within a species. For example: Minotaurs are most commonly congregate in disorganized farm communities and are vegetarians. However, a subspecies of them live in deserts and are omnivorous. They are shunned by other Minotaurs for being too insular and “blood-toothed” (eating meat).

As in cultural differences? I see. That’s a good one – is it in one of your stories?

Then you’re one up on me. ;-)

Really? Really, now?

hinted at or shown in the first book

^Remember when you blew up a sun said that?
;-)

As soon as I get off my lazy ass and finish it. It’s about 1/3rd there.

That sounds like me, hahaha.

Cool. Are some of the MCs minotaurs?

I think in most every part, I have at least one Minotaur in the group. Maybe.

I’ve been considering a scene where two of my human MCs have to help a female dragon protect her newly-hatched babies – from a bunch of hungry males of the same species. Because IRL bears sometimes do this.

Also some reptiles as well. So you know – double win!

Going back to what you mentioned about genetics, I’ve considered that too, ever since I read the insanity that Smeyer tried to pull off in Twilight. (so becoming a vampire CHANGES YOUR GENETIC STRUCTURE? And the child of a human and a werewolf can have children of their own, despite that being biologically impossible because the number of genes is wrong? And so on.) The long-lived group in my stuff (they live to around 600 years old and age at very different rates than humans—their equivalent of our 18 or so is around 50, but you aren’t a full adult until around 100, and after that aging practically stops until you hit 40) I have decided are human… sort of. They’re a subspecies, not actually a separate species (although they’d certainly like us all to think they weren’t even related to humans), and the reason why they’re so different from ordinary humans has to do with magic/power/whatever you call it that actually did change their ancestors’ genetic structure. So a human and one of these people can easily (relatively speaking… this group isn’t particularly fertile) have a child, and that child is going to look human (just like both of its parents) and will be perfectly capable of having children of their own, because it’s not really a cross-species thing.

Of course, because this subspecies has magic/power/whatever (it’s not “magic” in the sense we usually think of it… it’s a naturally occurring power found within all living beings, just most people and animals can’t control it and therefore don’t even consciously realize it exists. It’s bound by natural laws like any other thing and is studied as a science by this group, but it’s still capable of doing things we would consider supernatural, so from our standpoint it’s more or less magic) and a different brain structure (it’s difficult to explain. It’s kind of like, if you focus your entire mind on something, you can focus on only one thing. This group can focus that much on two things at once. They don’t necessarily think faster than us, it’s like… a dual-core processor instead of a single core. It’s not as fast as having two separate processors, but you can process more information at the same time.), hybrid children end up with some unique medical problems. As in, a propensity to going insane. The human part of their mind just can’t handle the other side, which in turn is having problems with the human side of things. That’s one very likely reason why cross-sub-species pairings are so looked down upon by this group.

becoming a vampire CHANGES YOUR GENETIC STRUCTURE?

No, to change your genetic structure you have to get bitten by a radioactive spider.;-)

And the child of a human and a werewolf can have children of their own, despite that being biologically impossible because the number of genes is wrong?

Messy screw-up is messy. Does she not know about Down’s syndrome kids? Oh sorry, I forgot – she grew up in such a sheltered way that she doesn’t even know what real job is.

Namely, the more specific you try to make something, the greater chance you invoke for suspension of disbelief to snap.

Let’s call it Rowling’s rule – after the completely unexplained magic in HP. Most fans weren’t bothered by that, were they?

The more details you bring in, the more you invite thinking and reflection on the situation – I guess.

But still, we like our internal consistency, rules of the verse, Magic A is Magic A and so on. If someone wrote a fanfic in which Meg can kill Castiel with Croatoan, or Dudley can become a wizard after eating the dandruff off of Harry’s pillow, we fans would freak out royally – so imagine the explosion if the author him/herself manages to screw up internal consistency. coughSMeyercough

Just telling us he’s “beamed out” might be acceptable

And lucky for him, Scotty was good with numbers and always remembered the correct coordinates.

by the time you reach anywhere at the speed of light, everyone you know is going to be dead

Not only that; you yourself will have infinite mass. I don’t know what that feels like, but it sounds painful.

The advice to keep things “somewhat vague” isn’t advice to be sloppy and inconsistent.

Yeah, but what if you have rather well planned-out magic system?
Then you’re not really being vague…

Think of it this way: you can write “he walked to the kitchen” without going into details about the mechanical process of his legs lifting… walking there… qwoping… etc. However, you can still be consistent with the design of the house and keeping the kitchen in the right spot.

So basically you have to “map” out your story – not just literally, but in how things are organised, too?

It’s more like a guide. When in doubt, remember that giving the reader more details (going another layer down of the description ladder), limits your story options and opens up more potential plot holes.

Oh okay. So you can say that the character is really good at X magic technique (that has effect Y), because he’s been trained in it for years under master Z… but if you break it down into biological explanations that make more holes appear than there are people in the lab… it’s too much?

One way to maintain internal consistency and suspension of belief at the same time is simply to work it out behind the scenes but not tell anyone what you’ve worked out. That way, if you’ve completely screwed up somewhere, it’s harder for readers to notice, but you still have a guide to go back to so you can determine whether or not something is possible under your system.

In general, though, I think simply leaving a scientific explanation out of it (except in near-future speculative fiction, perhaps), even if you still write out the rules of it, may be the easiest way to avoid this problem. If you explain that such and such a thing is possible and consistently stick to that, whether or not it’s possible in the real world doesn’t matter because it’s implied that yes, there’s a reason, I’m just not going into it right now. For example, in pretty much every science fiction book ever, faster than light travel is used. For the most part, they don’t even try to rationalize it (Star Wars has “hyperspace”, which, as its Wookiepedia page says, “was a phenomenon not completely understood by scientists”; Star Trek is just sort of like “scientific gobbledegook quantum warp something about the deflector shield”; Mass Effect handwaves it as being invented by somebody else, and so on), we just accept it as a logical part of the universe.

Superheroes work like that too. Trying to scientifically explain Superman’s powers, as has been attempted before, never works, because there is no biologically possible way that Superman could actually have those powers. It just isn’t possible. So when you get too scientific about it, the holes in the logic (i. e., the fact that it’s impossible) start to become too big to ignore. So you come up with a general explanation (he’s an alien who gains powers under the light of a yellow sun) rather than try to have a specific one (Krypton is a planet of high gravity, giving Superman his apparent super-strength and speed (according to the first appearance of Superman!), and so on).

Topic of discussion = successfully derailed! :D

Anyway… fantasy interracial relationships. I’ve come across a few; the only series that sticks out in my mind at this late hour is Chronicles of Narnia, though (I blame the fact that we were watching one of the movies earlier), but I do know I’ve seen other examples. And that’s just if we’re only talking about books/short stories; I can definitely remember several webcomics with examples.

(As for whether I’ve created any… well, the potential is there, sort of, in the world Dragon Candle takes place in, but there are no half-anythings in the story itself as I’ve planned it. </shameless plug>)

I think it should be like… a bylaw of II or something –that here there are no shameless plugs.

So…there are just plugs, then?

Or rather, it’s understood that we’re all shamelessly plugging everything –all the time. XD

Oh, so we just don’t announce that we’re plugging!

Chronicles of Narnia

Where? who?
(sorry, I’ve only read 3 of the books so far… don’t hit me!)

Also, Dragon Candle is a cool name.
:)

Ah, that is true about the half-dwarves. I’d forgotten about them. That was interesting, even if it was never elaborated on much. Looks like they were pretty much hated by both sides (if they knew their true ancestry), unfortunately.

Caspian’s Obi-Wan was one, wasn’t he?

Yep.

Better by far than ‘hated so we can has teh ANGST!’ variety.
I’m with Klutor and you on this one!

Yeah, it’s a manga too. It’s… not here any more.

Well then… time to finish downloading it elsewhere.

It’s not that I didn’t find it.

I guess that means I can go into webcomics?

Always.

:D

@Jeni – YES >:D [rubs hands together eagerly]

Fantasy first, since I’m pretending to not derail the topic again, at least:

Black Rose – Sinae and Laurn, as far as I can tell; at the very least, Sinae doesn’t seem to have any abilities like Laurn and his dad. Whether this means she’s human or just some other fantasy race (or if she hasn’t used her abilities because of her bad leg), we’ll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Sivine Blades – Seems to be completely averted here, actually; the main character is (apparently) completely human, and while a relationship might eventually come up between Siv and Genet, it could just as easily not.

Mixed Myth – Keeva is a goblin/elf mix, Aiden is a selkie/werewolf mix. And then they were in lurve.

The Wings Of Change (or here, apparently) – Hazel is half-Elvian, half human.

Inverloch – There’s an entire school of humans who have some amount of elf in their lineage, since that’s the only way for humans to have magic. (They’re rumored to be inbred for the same reason.) The main character himself is also kind of a…special case.

Phoenix Requiem – I guess Sarah Ellerton likes this one a lot; Jonas used to be married to Ksendra, one of the Hellions/Mehdiea (supernatural beings who were supposed to ferry souls to the afterlife, apparently among other duties).

Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic (WARNING: the comic is kind of NSFW) – The comic starts with one.

Weregeek – Yes, I’m reaching with this one, but one of the characters’ roleplaying characters is a half-orc barbarian.

And now for the kitchen sink!:

Alien Dice – ALL OF THEM. Seriously, though, most of the major relationships could be considered interracial; special mention goes to the main characters – Lexx and Chel – and to the dice, since IIRC they can interbreed with anything that shares at least one species with them (and with up to three species blended in each die, that can lead to some weird combinations).

Darius (spinoff from Akaelae, which starts here) – Vin’s grandparents, due partly to social pressures; the society at the time was starting to put pressure on guys to commit, and Vin’s grandfather wanted to continue sleeping around, so he started doing so with women of other ‘races’, which is how he met and married Vin’s grandmother.

Shivae! Vas’s Arc (Cler’s Arc starts here) – Toned down version, but the origin myth of the softwings (owl-gryphons) involves a pair of gryphons who had left their home to start a family. The comment seems to be missing now, but IIRC, part of the reason they left was because they wouldn’t have been allowed to mate back home, due to being too different to have healthy offspring.

Freefall – Florence and Winston.

DMFA (go here to skip to the revamp) – Even ignoring the Cubi (who can – and in some cases will – do the horizontal tango with anything that moves) there’s still Lorenda (Demon/Being) and Jyrras (Kangaroo/Kangaroo Rat).

Homestuck – OH LET ME COUNT THE WAYS. It doesn’t help that the trolls have four different kinds of love, so you have at least three different relationships with Karkat alone, two of which involve/involved one of the humans.

I could’ve sworn there were more, but I’m getting tired, so I’ll post more or edit them into this post when I remember.

EDIT: No sooner do I say that…

RPGWorld – Hero and Cherry, of course, and Diane’s parents.

9th Elsewhere (Sorry, no archives.) – Eiji’s parents; he’s a Muse/Chaos Demon. Which…probably explains a lot, actually.

Goku/ChiChi and Vegeta/Bulma, anyone?