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  1.  

    So I’ve read a few books written with guy protagonists by female authors. But, I mean, let’s be honest, it’s not always realistic.

    Major offender at this point: Ethan Wate from Beautiful Creatures by Kami Garcia and Margaret Stow. Now, I happened to like that book quite a lot, but that boy did not stare at girls, noticed clothing (and knew ball dress shops and what sort of dress came from which), hung out with old ladies on the weekend, and never freaked out even if there was mud in his bed and it hadn’t been there the night before. Even I know that’s not likely. Another, more-known, major offender would be Edward “middle-aged woman” Cullen in Midnight Sun.

    However there are probably other male protags that are not guy-ish to a lesser degree, that will then pass me by, because though a majority of my friends are boys, I am still a girl and do not know the subtleties of guys, or, indeed, if they have subtleties. (No offence, guys, because I’m sure you probably do, but I’m just making a point here.)

    Now we get to the crux of the matter. I want to do research on what the inside of a guy’s head is like. So if any of the male persuasion here have some recommendations for books they read and liked that were:

    a) by male authors,
    b) starring guy protagonists,
    c) written in first person/closely followed in third person (the first is preferable),
    d) realistic in terms of the male protagonist’s characterisation

    then I would really, really, appreciate it.

    I don’t know if a girl’s opinion is going to have much weight here, since a guy knows how a guy thinks better than a girl does. However, if you have guy friends who really liked a book that satisfied those criteria, then I’d love to hear about them.

    •  
      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010 edited
     

    I wouldn’t search too far. Psychologically, guys are far more likely to write in omniscient third person. Hell, we mentally refer to ourselves in third person half the time. I doubt you’ll find too many books written by males which ruminate overlong on the male character’s emotions.

    One brilliant exception: When Dogs Cry, Fighting Reuben Wolfe, and The Underdog by Marcus Zusac (I forget which order the trilogy is in). Butn that’s because the main character is a new-age sensitive guy who writes poetry and is in touch with his feminine side.

    A few that I particularly enjoyed include _From Your Friend, Louis Deane and The Divine Wind by Garry Disher, A Bridge to Wiseman’s Cove by James Moloney, and Nukkin’ Ya and Deadly, Unna? by Phillip Gwynne.

    There’s also the series of short story series, “Just x (-ing)” (Just Annoying, Just Stupid, Just Tricking, Just Disgusting… ) by Andy Griffiths. The young male characters in that behave like real boys (8-15 years), although the focus is omniscient third nearly all of the time.

    You might also look at some of Paul Jennings’ work, especially How Hedley Hopkins Did A Dare.

    There’s also The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, but that’s from the first-person perspective of a high-functioning autistic boy, not from a mentally-average boy who you could use as some kind of stereotyping benchmark.

  2.  

    Eh, it’s not emotional stuff I’m after. It’s actually kind of the opposite—in what situations do guys squash it down, and what’s their breaking point? I’m more looking for their reactions (involuntary or not) to things, thought patterns, etc. Any well-characterised male.

    •  
      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010 edited
     

    In which case, try Tomorrow When The War Began by John Marsden (yes, the one that recently was made into a movie).

    And although not written by a male, the Harry Potter series are remarkable in the characterisation of the male characters, especially the students. The way Harry reactsa to things (and even the ways the other boys including antagonists deal with situations (in the books, not the movies) always struck me as psychologically realistic. In the way that I can completely understand and relate to their reactions even if I don’t like them as a character.

    Also, for non-written media, try watching The Castle or the movie adaptation of My Brother Jack, as these are both really good indications of the male reactivepsychology, especially the Australian reactions (because, of course, the mythical “male mind” is not some universal uniformity, every male’s mind is different, especially cross-culturally. The same goes for females, I’m certain.)

  3.  

    Yeah, but TWtWB is all from Ellie’s POV. I don’t ever remember reading any section that was from somebody else’s, especially considering she was meant to be writing it all down. So who were you referring to here?

    Thanks for the other suggestions, though. They sound good.

    •  
      CommentAuthorMiel
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010
     

    I’m sorry if you want to strangle me for this, but I’m female, I have an admitted bias for the female POV, and I’m recommending a book by a female author XD

    Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood. The main character is a man named Jimmy, and the story follows him through his childhood into adulthood. I thought that it was an uncommonly realistic portrayal of a male character. Atwood said that, before the book was published, she gave the manuscript to some young males to see if she could change Jimmy in any way to him more believable to them. The only change they gave her was that he needed to swear more. Other than that, even they were surprised by how accurately Jimmy’s psychology resembled real men.

    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010
     

    Let’s see….I’d recommend True Blue, a compilation of police officers’ stories edited by Sgt. Randy Sutton. Some of the stories are by women, but the ones from a male perspective offer some great insight into how guys think—especially since of some of the situations they describe are pretty tense. So if you’re looking for something like that, that’s what I’d recommend.

    •  
      CommentAuthorThea
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010
     

    Actually, many of my favorite books have (fairly convincing, if that from a female reader counts) male POVs and female authors: uh, Margaret Graves & Richard Jury, K.E. Mills and Gerard Dunwoody, and I can’t think who else at the moment.

    Oh, you know who has awesome male perspective? Terry Pratchett with Sam Vimes! (A friend and I decided he has one of the best character arcs ever, and she doesn’t usually like that sort of thing.)

    Otherwise, I just went to look at my bookcases and though I have a good number of male authors with male protagonists from close third to first person POV, I haven’t read any of them yet. However, there are two that I haven’t finished that I’d recommend anyway: Bad Things Happy by Harry Dolan—I had to stop reading to finish all the library books I had out, but in the spare style does very well even with occasional jump in POV, otherwise close third person and mostly told through dialogue; and the second would be Separation by Dan Franck, a French novel that is also very sparse, but emotional and evocative about the breakdown of a marriage, not a subject I usually like, but too good to not read, which I only didn’t finish because I had to turn it in.

    And if you like genre fiction, I liked Will Thomas’ Cyrus Barker series, starting with Some Danger Involved. Not the most sophisticated stories and pretty straightforwardly Holmesian, but the Welsh narrator Llewelyn is engaging. I personally found Barker a little over done on the ‘mysterious’ end, but I love Thomas, who is often imperiled.

    •  
      CommentAuthorNorthmark
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2010 edited
     

    Will Thomas’ Cyrus Barker series

    Yesss. I read those years ago but couldn’t remember the name of the series. I second this recommendation.

    My personal suggestion would be I Am The Messenger by Markus Zusak. I know somebody else mentioned a Zusak book up there, but I figured I might as well include this one too.

  4.  

    I am the Messenger

    Beat me to it. I love that book. I love it so much.

  5.  

    No, Miel, I won’t strangle you, that book has been approved by guys, so it’s all good.
    Danielle, that’s exactly the sort of thing I’m looking for, so thanks!

    Guys, thanks for the awesome suggestions, and please keep ‘em coming! :)

  6.  

    And although not written by a male, the Harry Potter series are remarkable in the characterisation of the male characters, especially the students. The way Harry reactsa to things (and even the ways the other boys including antagonists deal with situations (in the books, not the movies) always struck me as psychologically realistic. In the way that I can completely understand and relate to their reactions even if I don’t like them as a character.

    Truth.

    Oh, you know who has awesome male perspective? Terry Pratchett with Sam Vimes! (A friend and I decided he has one of the best character arcs ever, and she doesn’t usually like that sort of thing.)

    Also truth.
    Vimes is the thinking man’s badass.

    I’ll also recommend the Rose of the Prophet-trilogy by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman. Tracy is a guy, BTW.
    I know the title sounds kinda soppy or something, but it is not a soppy series. It’s about a bunch of very different people forced to grit their teeth and work together, because there’s a war between the gods and only they can end it.

    The POV shifts around between a lot of the characters, and it’s always well done. I think Tracy did the parts where you see through a guy’s eyes. Also, the two authors are constantly Showing Their Work, because the trilogy is based on ancient religions and mythology, mostly Arabian.

    If their names sound familiar – they also did Dragonlance.
    Which is teh awesome.

    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
     

    And if you want a young guys’ perspective on relationships, try For Young Women Only by Shaunti Feldahan. It’s from a Christian perspective, but the author interviewed hundreds of teen and young adult guys, asking them dozens of questions about girls and relationships. It’s a fascinating peek into the male psyche.

    Also, although it’s by a female author, just about anything by Bodie Thoene will have a very realistic portrayal of a guy. Specifically, I’m thinking of the Shiloh Legacy series, which follows four different families of four different soldiers in WWI as they start families and live through the 1920s and the Great Depression.

    Ummm….

    Francine Rivers’ portrayal of Marcus in the first two books of the Mark of the Lion trilogy….her portrayal of Atretes in the first and third….even though they’re targeted toward younger readers, the My Name is America books are written as journals of teenage boys during pivotal moments in America’s history…..all of those are good, IMO.

    •  
      CommentAuthorNorthmark
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
     

    @SWQ: I liked the book through the beginning and middle but felt the end was disappointing. The POV writing in it was good throughout, and so were the situations (the Jimmy thing was particularly interesting) that Ed had to face, but I just couldn’t get into the way it ended.

  7.  
    _Francine Rivers’ portrayal of Marcus in the first two books of the Mark of the Lion trilogy….her portrayal of Atretes in the first and third….even though they’re targeted toward younger readers._


    They're for younger readers? o_O O_O
  8.  

    And if you want a young guys’ perspective on relationships, try For Young Women Only by Shaunti Feldahan. It’s from a Christian perspective, but the author interviewed hundreds of teen and young adult guys, asking them dozens of questions about girls and relationships. It’s a fascinating peek into the male psyche.

    I have that book :) Very interesting, and I learnt a lot of things from it. That’s kind of what started me on this quest. I realised that though we’re the same in a lot of ways, we’re also pretty dam’ different.

    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
     

    They’re for younger readers? o_O O_O

    You know, in journalism, we call that misquoting with intent for libel. And it is a big no-no.

    :P jk. You know I love you.

    I have that book :) Very interesting, and I learnt a lot of things from it. That’s kind of what started me on this quest. I realised that though we’re the same in a lot of ways, we’re also pretty dam’ different.

    Yes. Yes we are. After reading that book, I asked my brother if it was accurate. He said it was.

    What’s really interesting is seeing what guys think of your favorite movies. For example, me and my brother both love Pixar movies. I liked WALL-E more than Finding Nemo because it’s a sweet, innocent romance (and a darn good movie). He liked Finding Nemo better because, in his words, “it’s a heroic rescue movie. I mean, a dad going after his kidnapped son? What’s cooler than that?” He liked Taken for the same reason (even though it’s about a dad going after his kidnapped daughter, it’s basically the same principle).

  9.  

    What’s really interesting is seeing what guys think of your favorite movies. For example, me and my brother both love Pixar movies. I liked WALL-E more than Finding Nemo because it’s a sweet, innocent romance (and a darn good movie). He liked Finding Nemo better because, in his words, “it’s a heroic rescue movie. I mean, a dad going after his kidnapped son? What’s cooler than that?” He liked Taken for the same reason (even though it’s about a dad going after his kidnapped daughter, it’s basically the same principle).

    That’s a pretty cool idea.

  10.  

    Taken is an awesome movie.

    • CommentAuthorDeborah
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2010
     
    How about Percy Jackson? Its a first-person guy's POV, written by a guy, and its very enjoyable.
    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2010 edited
     

    That’s a pretty cool idea.

    It’s fascinating. If you don’t have a brother, I can grab mine and you can hear his perspectives. :P

    Seriously, I think every aspiring writer should have a sibling of the opposite gender. And if you don’t have a blood sibling, you should find a close friend of the opposite sex who’s like a sibling. Just by listening to my brother’s perspectives on movies, songs and news stories, I’ve learned so much about how guys think and perceive the world. Like when we were watching Ramona and Beezus, there’s a scene where Beezus yells at Ramona while Henry (her crush, idk if you’ve read the books or not) is still on speakerphone, so he hears the whole thing. Beezus realizes this and goes upstairs to her room, where she sobs into her pillow. Right about then, my brother says,

    “You know what Henry’s thinking right now?”
    “What?”
    “He’s thinking, ‘You know what’d be good? A peanut butter sandwich….with ham. Yeah. That sounds good.’”

    Or at the end of Taken, where Kim is finally rescued. I thought it was a good ending, but I didn’t cry. My dad was sitting next to me, tearing up. On the other hand, I always cry at the end of WALL-E, but my dad and brother don’t. Little things like that can tell you so much about how people think.

  11.  
    "You know, in journalism, we call that misquoting with intent for libel. And it is a big no-no."


    And on this forum I would call it an honest question.
    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2010
     

    And on this forum I would call it an honest question.

    How can it be honest if the quote is fabricated?

    OOOHHHHH WHAT NOW??? :P

  12.  

    Percy Jackson

    How did I overlook that one?

  13.  

    How did I overlook that one?

    He’s wearing a helmet of invisibility, maybe?

  14.  
    "even though they’re targeted toward younger readers."


    All I asked was if they were targeted for younger readers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBrink
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2010
     

    I’ll be honest and say that I have a preference for a female POV, but it is fun to read guys. If you’re looking for speculative fiction, The Bartimaeus Trilogy did it pretty well, but you might have already read that.

    • CommentAuthorDanielle
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2010
     

    All I asked was if they were targeted for younger readers.

    The My Name is America books are. The Mark of the Lion books aren’t.

  15.  

    I think you put too much stock in making a character “male.” If he is a well-constructed character instead of some kind of weird girly fantasy that appeals to your sensibilities of what a guy should be, you should just be able to write him as he is and have it work out. Sure, testosterone and dangling bits are part of being a man, but individuals are individuals, and what’s considered “masculine behavior” will vary based on the culture your character inhabits.

    Anyway, that’s the approach I took to my female PoV. I don’t know how well I executed it, being not female, but I still stand by the approach even if I failed.

  16.  

    @ sansa: No, she reads pretty female to me, being female. :)

  17.  

    I think you put too much stock in making a character “male.” If he is a well-constructed character instead of some kind of weird girly fantasy that appeals to your sensibilities of what a guy should be, you should just be able to write him as he is and have it work out. Sure, testosterone and dangling bits are part of being a man, but individuals are individuals, and what’s considered “masculine behavior” will vary based on the culture your character inhabits.

    Anyway, that’s the approach I took to my female PoV. I don’t know how well I executed it, being not female, but I still stand by the approach even if I failed.

    I’m not putting too much stock in making my character specifically male, it’s just that this thread has a heavy emphasis on male behaviour. You know what they say, know your enemy—guys and girls are different, although as humans we do have many similarities. I’m not really talking ‘masculine’ as in gender roles and what a certain culture expects, I’m talking masculine as in the way a man will think differently than a woman will. Also things like word choice, what they notice and what they leave out, stuff like that. While I’ve got a reasonable grasp on that sort of stuff, there’s always the odds that I missed something. Plus you can always improve, right?

    I would also say that most male authors I’ve read tend to write female points of view very well, so, sansa, given the odds I’d say you’re probably okay :)

  18.  

    @ sansa: No, she reads pretty female to me, being female. :)

    I agree.

    •  
      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2010
     

    That’s been my approach to writing a male character for my NaNo, sansa. My characters don’t tend to spend much time in emotional introspection anyway, so… I just sort of write them in a neutral sort of way. I don’t specifically try to write them as male or female, because I’d undoubtedly screw it up horribly.

  19.  

    Well, thanks for all the suggestions, guys, I guess. I also can’t believe I overlooked Percy Jackson.

  20.  

    No, she reads pretty female to me, being female. :)

    I agree.

    I am pleased, in that case :D

    Also things like word choice, what they notice and what they leave out, stuff like that.

    I think this in particular is a function of individual thought and societal gender norms more than it is biology. I can go into what I’m talking about a little more if you want, but I’m too lazy right now.

    lols at the “weird girly fantasy” thing. Oh Edward, come and ‘protect’ me now!

    I don’t necessarily mean some kind of Romantic ideal or anything. I just mean, say, a girl constructing her male character out of attributes she finds specifically appealing. Like, say, she likes curly hair(for the record, I don’t get this at all, but it seems pretty common) so she gives her male lead curly hair. There’s nothing wrong with that, in and of itself, but doing that sort of thing tends to be repeated, especially if the writer isn’t conscious of it.

    What you get in the end is a puppet with a bunch of cutesy fetishized traits pasted to it, and in order to get it to move on its own, the writer has to force it to move by hand. It makes the character read like a woman, since a woman is pulling its strings.

    Hopefully I wrote that in a way that makes sense o_O

  21.  

    I think this in particular is a function of individual thought and societal gender norms more than it is biology.

    Damn, you know what? Reading back, I realise I said pretty much the exact opposite of what I meant, when what I meant was that the above quote is exactly what I want. Societal gender norms and examples of individual thought in the form of books from a male perspective will help to make book featuring a male who generally conforms to those norms, having been brought up in them, realistic.

    I really, really apologise for this. I know it’s frustrating having people go back on their words and stuff.