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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010 edited
     

    I know it’s fairly common in both the fantasy genre and the mass-market “airport thrillers” to open with a quote; usually something profound that adds meaning and depth to the themes and moral discussions of the novel… HA.

    What I want to know is, what do you guys think about opening with a quote? Twilight started with a bible reference, Stephen King often opened with an epigraph, Dostoyevsky quoted the bible as well, and even some poetry begins with a quote from other works (like Eliot’s The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock, which quotes Dante’s Inferno). Moby Dick has around 80 epigraphs compiled in a prefixed appendix. Deathly Hallows started with a quote from Aeschylus and some other fellow. Various games from Morrowind to Baldur’s Gate have started with quotes before the title-screen.

    Is it wise to do this? Do epigraphs help or hurt? Are they pretentious, or thought-provoking? Would you advise someone for or against it, if they were writing a novel?

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    I’m going to be incredibly annoying and sit squarely on the fence on this one. When done well, they can add to the atmosphere of a book. When done poorly, they’re annoying and everyone skips over them anyway. So I don’t want to say “no, never do them”, but I also don’t want to say “yes, always do them”.

    I guess I lean more toward the “they’re just pretentious” side of things. Unless you have a very good reason for using them and they actually add to the story, don’t put it in. If you’re an inexperienced writer, don’t put them in, because they’ll end up being pretentious, probably.

  1.  

    I mostly agree with Swenson. If it adds to the story, it can be good, but it usually just comes off as pretentious.

    If you’re J.K. Rowling our Stephen King, then you can do pretty much whatever the hell you want because chances are you know what you’re doing.

    However, if you’re Smeyer, then your well-intentioned Biblical quote ends up not really fitting with your message. I don’t remember what she used exactly, but I think it was to do with Eve or temptation or something. And sense Bella gives into temptation, which wasn’t the point of the quote, it doesn’t work.

    So basically, if you know what you’re doing, they can be good, but as a general rule, inexperienced writers should avoid them. It’s too easy to screw them up and make yourself look like a pretentious snob who did it just to sound smart.

    Strangely, I actually like quotes and references as book and chapter titles just because I think it sounds cool, but again, it has to be done right.

  2.  

    I like reading them, but I’ve never actually thought about incorporating them into my own writing.

    Now song lyrics I do find annoying. And Bible verses always seem to come off as vaguely blasphemous or annoyingly holy.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpanman
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010 edited
     

    I almost always enjoy epigraphs, as long as they’re at least somewhat relevant to the story, they’re not overlong, and they’re not overused. I don’t particularly like it when there’s a quote from something at the beginning of every chapter. Quotes from the Bible are fine, poetry is usually fine, dialogue is good, and prose is usually good. I have yet to encounter an epigraph that I thought was out of place or really unnecessary (or maybe I’ve just made myself forget the bad ones). Sure, the Bible quote in front of Twilight was kind of weird, sort of arrogant and just a tad cliched, but it was relevant and perfectly good for the genre it belonged to.

    Anyway. I’m not an expert or anything, I just like to read epigraphs before I read a book. It makes the anticipation more fun. ^^

    For the record, the verse Smeyer used in Twilight was Genesis 2:17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. I’m not sure if King James was the version used, but that’s the verse. Just like Smeyer to decide that it could be a good thing to eat of the fruit and die.

  3.  

    I wouldn’t recommend using them unless you’ve got something that’s really tied to the heart of the story somehow. It’s very, very easy to just look pretentious when you use one.

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      CommentAuthorMoldorm
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    What do you think of using a quote from a text from the world of your own story? A quote from the ancient prophecy or world creation myth, for instance, could certainly help with depth and worldbuilding.

  4.  

    That’s an interesting idea, Moldorm.

    Personally, I’m neither for nor against. It depends on the book, really and how it is used.

  5.  

    What do you think of using a quote from a text from the world of your own story? A quote from the ancient prophecy or world creation myth, for instance, could certainly help with depth and worldbuilding.

    That’s sorta how The Wire does it, but each episode begins with a quote from within the episode itself.

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010 edited
     

    The Dune books are an example of that. I’m sure it’s supposed to be enlightening about the following chapter, and they often do add to your understanding of the world if you actually read them and who they’re by, but also sometimes often come off as pretentious.

    I still like ‘em there, though.

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      CommentAuthorPuppet
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    I’ve grown quite found of starting my story with the “It was a dark and stormy night…” quote from Paul Clifford. It is extremely overused and considered purple… But oh well.

  6.  

    Like how A Wrinkle in Time starts! I’ve started a few stories that way too.

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      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    Moldorm: Baldur’s Gate starts that way, with a ‘quote’ from ancient prophecy. I only remember the last bit: “So sayeth the wise Alaundo”.

    I started this thread because I am seriously considering using one for my own work: “I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker; / The eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, / And in short, I was afraid.” (From The Lovesong of J Alfred Prufrock). I agree with what swenson and No One say about adding to the story and fitting the message, and I think this quote fits particularly well. At the heart of it my story is about a man so afraid to face his own mortality that he has made himself into a God in the eyes of his people, and convinced himself that he’s immortal.

    Anyway, I like the general trend of opinions so far.

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      CommentAuthorPuppet
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    “The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps. “

    So Sayeth the wise Alaundo.

    To be exact. :D

  7.  

    I like that quote, Taku. It seems like it goes with the story too. I mostly just don’t like when they’re overused, like when every single chapter has a quote attached to it. I don’t mind them at the beginning of a book so long as they’re relevant.

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      CommentAuthorswenson
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2010
     

    Beginning of the book only is better than every chapter, I think. It’s much more likely to actually be relevant, unlike when you have to try to dig up an appropriate quote for every chapter.

    • CommentAuthorNo One
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2010
     

    I agree with what swenson and No One say about adding to the story and fitting the message,

    Eh? I didn’t comment in this thread before now. Unless you were referring to something else that I forgot?

    •  
      CommentAuthorTakuGifian
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2010
     

    Sorry, I must have seen “NeuroticPlatypus” and filled in “_o One” mentally.

    •  
      CommentAuthorBrink
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2010
     

    When I was younger, I started all my chapters with epigraphs. They were pretentious beyond belief, but to my twelve-year-old mind, they fit like a glove.

    And then I realized what I was writing was absolute crap, anyways.

    I think it’s a trap amateur writers can easily fall into, as it adds “depth” and “meaning” to a story. Or something.

  8.  

    My pretentious side is annoyed by epigraphs, but my ‘whatever’ side thinks, if you want them, well, have them.

  9.  

    Late, but:

    A quote from the ancient prophecy or world creation myth, for instance, could certainly help with depth and worldbuilding.

    I agree. This is exactly what JRR Tolkien did (one ring to rule them all, etc.) and I think it worked pretty well.

  10.  

    Tamora Pierce uses them in Trickster’s Choice and they’re often pieces of letters or advice books ‘written’ in her world that pertain to the chapter. I don’t mind it, only in a couple of chapters, they’re used a little cheatingly. Such as, before the chapter in which Aly has to circumvent an essence spell, the epigraph thingy talks about what they are and how to break them. It doesn’t bother me too much as a reader, but for some it may.
    Most of the time it contributes to worldbuilding, though.

    I don’t know whether you’d call that epigraphs or something else.