Guess who’s back!

Besides Paolini.

Yeah, sorry for the delay everyone. The doctors say I was in some sort of… Twilight-induced waking coma or something. I was hallucinating that I blew up the world or something. At any rate, I’m (mostly) all better now and ready to do another chapter, one that will finish up the eclipse section and take us into the Breaking Dawn part of the book.

It’s like… topical or something.

Also a warning: I’m going to be including a LOT of links and references in this (even moreso than usual). You’ll probably start seeing why, but I’ll do my best to sum up the links so one doesn’t have to divert from my “brilliance” until done.

So what’s this chapter called?

The “Real” Danger: Fact vs Fiction for the Girl Audience

Hmmm… confession time: In college, I got a minor in criminology. This… actually looks of some interest. So apologies in advance if I geek out on you too much.

The newspaper headline screams: “Eighteen-Year-Old Slain by Husband after Giving Birth.” As you continue to reading, you learn that the young wman was brainwashed by a strange, blood-drinking cult who call themselves a “family,” though none of the members were actually related.

Ok, I gotta admit. This alternate interpretation of the Twilight “saga” (which goes on for awhile) is pretty cool and well done. Kudos to the author on it.

Sounds torturous and sick, doesn’t it? But in fact, this is the basis of a tween-teen literary phenomenon called the Twilight saga. Painted with the romantic, fictitious flourish of author Stephenie Meyer’s pen, what in reality would be a horrific account of violence against women, all too familiar in today’s media, becomes a dangerously romanticized fantasy for a primarily young female audience.

Wait – “all too familiar in today’s media”? What about all the violence done to men in the media? Of course, I’m not complaining because I realize that media is so violent because otherwise it’s very boring and only grandparents seem to enjoy really boring media.

And what exactly is confronting the female audience of Meyer’s Twilight? Current statistics on violence against women in the United States and elsewhere tell a truly horrifying story – they also suggest that putting foward this kind of fiction is dangerous.

The rest of this paragraph goes onto set up the argument the author will be making in this essay, all I’ll point out is that I don’t disagree about the statistics (sort of), I’m just so cynical that I don’t really find them horrifying.

Just the Facts, Ma’am

Who will the female audience really find when looking for Edward, after separating the fact from the fiction? I guarantee, it will not be a handsome, rich vampire looking for a soul mate.

Well… no, because vampires don’t exist. Also, there’s an old joke (engineers know it well) called “pick two”. Here’s a good example of the principle:

Yes, one could substitute Edward for Batman up there (but who would want to), but the commonalities are the same: the only guy one is going to find to fit all the criteria is in fiction. People are flawed, and if you don’t want to live your life alone, you’re going to have to figure out which flaw you can live with.

In fact, he will be a possessive, dangerously violent stalker – the same man who perpetuates statistics like these every year in the United States:

There are even more hard-to-believe statistics regarding the pandemic known as violence against women (VAW).

Wait a second here. Pandemic? That first footnote up there links to the National Center for Victims of Crime statistics. Which is one of the 2 sources of crime stats criminologists use in the US, the other being the FBI Uniform Crime Report. The exact pros and cons of the two studies deserve a much more detailed essay, but suffice to say, one of the reasons these two data sets are used is…

Hang on a second, it’s not! The other study is the National Crime Victimization Survey run by the department of justice.

Why use this NCVC website? I better check it’s documentation.

Weird, it has footnotes.

Hmm… first source:

bq.Bureau of Justice Statistics, “Criminal Victimization, 2009,” (Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, 2010), 1, http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf (accessed November 3, 2010).

Why yes that IS the National crime victims survey.

Wait, I see another footnote…

Federal Bureau of Investigation, “Crime in the United States, 2009: Expanded Homicide Data,” (Washington, DC: GPO, 2010), calculated from Tables 2 and 10, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2009 (accessed October 18, 2010).

Any time someone pulls information from an intermediary instead of a first-run source, it gets very suspicious… Why? Because it makes it a lot easier for these intermediaries to “cook the numbers” to get the results desired. For example, to be sure we’re comparing apples to apples, let’s take another look at these “hard-to-believe statistics regarding the pandemic” for the year 2009 in context.

Murders victims:
Males- 10,496
Females- 3,122

Or page 15 of the NCVS for All Personal Crimes:
Males- 3,127,470
Females- 2,273,320

Murder Circumstances:
Total circumstances where the victim was a stranger to the perpetrator: 1,676.
Total circumstances where the victim had SOME kind of relationship to the perpetrator: 5,974.
Unknown relationships between victim and perpetrator: 5,986.
(to find these numbers, I totaled stranger & unknown and subtracted from total gathered)

Yes, it’s an old fact known to criminologists, that if you’re going to die, it will probably be at the hands of someone that knows you (and if you’ve had very many family dinners, you start to realize why). Look at the graph, if you’re going to die by a stranger, it’s more likely during a robbery or “other argument” than anything else. And if violence against women is a pandemic, what the hell does one call violence against men? Epidemic? This is why you always double check stats, people. Because anything pulled out of context and looked at up close can appear horrifying. If not an outright lie.

Speaking of which, remember that bit about “3.4 million women age eighteen or older are victims of stalking”? Here’s what the site she is using as a source says:

During a one-year period, 3.4 million people ages 18 or older in the United States were stalked.

Hmmm… people, would imply more than just women. Well let’s go to the source it is using, The US Dept of Justice (again). And you know what? They list number of victims in Table 4.
Male stalking victims: 888,680.
Female stalking victims: 2,531,770.

Yes, the author LIED when she said 3.4 million women were stalked – nearly a 3rd of that number were actually men!

Of course, even one person stalked is one too many, but there’s no need to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now getting back to the essay…

The World Health Organization (WHO) completed a ten-country study and found that 71 percent of women reported physical or sexual violence by a husband or intimate partner, noting that violence against women is a “major public health problem and violation of human rights,” and that “violence by an intimate partner is one of the most common forms of violence against women.” 3

You know… I’m not trusting this essay any more. Let’s see what it actually says from the source she lists.

A WHO multi-country study found that between 15–71% of women reported experiencing physical and/or sexual violence by an intimate partner at some point in their lives.

BETWEEN 15 and 71%? That’s a bit of a huge range, don’t ya think?

between 15% of women in Japan and 70% of women in Ethiopia and Peru reported physical and/or sexual violence by an intimate partner;

While I certainly hope things improve for the gals in Ethiopia and Peru, things seem pretty good in Japan. But wasn’t this essay talking about the US?

What’s its data? What was the methodology?

Oh wait, as can be seen on the summary page, of the 10 countries studied, the United States was NOT included.

Which becomes even funnier when after mentioning the WHO, the essay goes on to give the USDOJ’s definition of stalking, which you can pull up here. The upshot of it all? (which the essay leaves off)

The most common type of stalking behavior victims experienced was unwanted phone calls and messages

OMG! I’m being stalked by the American Red Cross!

Seriously, if that’s the worst that most victims have to deal with… it’s something of an improvement for society. Won’t stop the chapter’s doom and gloom, though.

Edward Cullen is guilty of at least three of the above criteria; it doesn’t matter that Bella Swan may like such attentions – that only speaks to Bella’s naivete and lack of experience.

Yeah, that’s largely true. Except I do want to point out that one of the most important reoccurring words in the definitions of stalking is “unwanted”. And with that…

But I can’t argue against the essay’s insistence that Bella is a victim. Of what though…

In 2005, the year Twilight was first published, 1,181 women were murdered in the United States by an intimate partner – an average of three women per day. Young women like Bella are disproportionately the victims of domestic violence.

These “scary stats” are fretted over for a bit here. I merely want to point out that in this section, no source for any of these stats is provided. Given this author’s previous track record with statistics… it gets hard to believe any of it.

But I like statistics (sometimes) so in the interest of fighting depression, here’s what I found about 2005.

If she’s talking about intimate partner, I assume it’s a total of wife + girlfriend, though that total is only 1,055 leaving 126 victims unaccounted for.

Meanwhile The male equivalent comes out 287, meaning an average of 0.78ths of a man is killed each day. (What’s up with the disparity between sons and daughters? guys, have you thanked your parents for not killing you today?) And, for those curious, the circumstances of the murders in 2005? 117 are listed under “romantic triangle”. So it doesn’t quite seem like “young women like Bella” are really “disproportionately the victims”. (this is why it’s always stressed to define your terms in these things)

When you factor in how Meyer’s books have influenced millions of female tweens and teens, we may theorize if not an increase, certainly not a lessening of such VAW statistics as the girl audience grows up and pursues the “man of their dreams,” shaped in part by the fantasized image of Edward. Still not convinced? There’s more.

Spoiler warning: No, not exactly. At no point coming up does the author go over how Twilight (a book, that is not required reading for anyone) is influencing women which are voluntarily picking it up. Me thinks we’re having a confusion over cause and effect here.

We know that Bella has bruises all over her body after her first sexual encounter with Edward. We also know that because of her relationship with Edward, Bella’s life is constantly threatened, resulting in other cuts, bruises, even broken bones.

Am I the only one who remembers Edward trying to leave her? Who kept warning her that being with him could cause injury? And she kept pursuing him anyway. Let’s be honest, Bella wasn’t just “asking for it”, she was actively demanding it. I mean, Ashley Greene Alice is hot and all, but if I find that she’s hard as marble upon say… holding her hand, I should be able to put two and two together and realize that being with her is going to cause some uncomfortable injuries for me.

The Department of Justice defines psychological abuse as fear and intimidation by threatening physical harm to self or partner, children or partner’s friends and family, as well as forcing isolation from family, friends, work, and/or school. If we were to be honest readers not taken in by the romance, isn’t that what happens to Bella? Doesn’t she begin to fell isolated from her family and friends? In fact, her relationship with Edward requires Bella to die in order to live with Edward. In other words, Bella has to completely change who she is, where she lives, and who her friends are. She changes her plans for college and isolates herself from her family.

Damn, this essay is turning me into a defender of this series. Please, correct me if I’m wrong, but in the movies Bella is the one who isolates herself, often against Edward’s wishes. (As far as my understanding of the books, only the engine episode strikes me as somewhat psych abuse – or maybe I should say, not self-inflicted psych abuse.) And that’s not even getting into whether Bella is psychologically abusing Edward. I’ll leave that debate for other imps since this essay is already long.

Yes, in Bella’s imagination death is to be transformative, binding her to Edward forever. But in reality, death is not like that. It’s irreparable, permanent.

Look essay: if you’re not going to respect us, why should we respect you?

What follows is a bit economic abuse, which we’ll pass over for now. Instead let’s go back to emotional abuse (which sounds like another form of psychological abuse).

Even Edward’s attempt to commit suicide fits the definition of emotional abuse and is part of the overall violence against Bella…

Uh… need I point out that Edward’s suicide attempt was when he thought Bella was dead? (irreparable, permanent dead) How can Edward emotionally abuse someone he’s convinced is not alive? Oh wait, I forgot: it was all kicked off because Bella made a suicide attempt first. And what about all those times she’s shoving her blood in his face, even after she knows he doesn’t like the temptation? If anything, it comes off that she’s the one emotionally abusing him (these two deserve each other). At some point, one gets the feeling that there’s no room here for male domestic violence victims. Well let me just say that it doesn’t matter whether the victim is man, woman or Dalek – domestic violence isn’t cool.

Bella and “Generation Me”

Ok, I can’t fault the essay here, and generally agree with it here about how “GenMe also has an increased tendency toward narcissism, an intriguing and pertinent connection to Twilight‘s Bella.” This section, talking about how my generation (yes, I’d be one of these) is a little too focused on themselves and how this has encouraged the culture of divorce (which isn’t helping kids any). Heck, it even makes up for the previous section:

Even after the almost fatal episode with James, Bella continues to choose what psychologists might term a “toxic relationship” with Edward because it is something she desires. … When she learns that Edward has been watching her sleep at night and following her around in secret, she is flattered – Edward’s actions feed in to Bella’s GenMe narcissistic tendencies and focus. And that kind of vulnerability is the problem with narcissism. … Of course, one’s specialness is not all that matters, and that is where reality hits GenMe hard in the face.

Wow, I mean… I went from disagreeing strongly to agreeing strongly in one essay. I’m getting mood whiplash here. Maybe… maybe this will all turn out a great essay on the whole and-

Enter Jean Baudrillard’s ideas on the dangers of simulating reality.

Oh. Here’s where I feel obligated to bring up Confused Matthew’s rant on the Matrix sequels where he brings up and rails against Baudrillard and his book that’s referenced in this essay. I think he’s largely right on the guy, though apparently this essay will pick up and run with the one good idea Baudrillard has had.

To sum up: people have become so immersed in pop culture, they have trouble telling the difference between fiction and reality. Which I’ll largely agree with, except that it’s not exactly society’s fault. If I may quote Susan Walsh a moment:

What triggers dopamine? Risk. One researcher said that women can’t help but crave “an erotic edge of danger,” and it’s the word danger that holds the key to understanding sexual attraction. When women (and men) take risks, they feel a rush of adrenaline, which produces lust, and a rush of dopamine, which produces attraction. This would explain why even imprisoned convicts have women writing to them, and why no girl can resist a guy in a band or on a motorcycle.

(and yes, this also explains why guys do really boneheaded things now and then) Sometimes it’s just society giving us what we want. But society can still play a role in our lives. Best summed up with:

Still, the essay isn’t completely done…

New Moon Rising?

The questions that surround the Twilight phenomenon often focus on whether or not Bella is a feminist hero: Is she being assertive and going after what she wants, or is she submissive to the greater power of an older man, a predator by all counts? Why Bella should choose Jacob Black, or why Edward is the better choice. Such questions, though, are irrelevant without first understanding what is behind the Twilight concept.

Oh. Never mind, maybe we’ll get an examination here into the biology of people, mate selection and how we should deal with our pasts going into the future…

Before we can look at Bella as an individual, we must study where she comes from, how the whole of society helped to shape the individual – and since Bella is a fictional character created by the real Stephanie Meyer, it makes sense to follow the social attitudes that shaped Meyer’s own individuality.

After all the previous pages, we’re just NOW getting to a more interesting topic with only 2 and a quarter pages left? The very debate of individual actions and the influence of society (aka, the choices of individuals in that society in the aggregate) upon those actions could fill an entire book. Example, here’s a post where Gerp observes that in romance novels over the years, the women have become increasingly realistic while the men, less so; more hyper masculine (need we bring up Drake?). Look, I’ve seen the romance section in book stores. You can’t tell me that out of the thousands around, it’s society’s fault for the books women vote for with their dollars. Marketing can play a role, but there’s FAR too many examples of things that were heavily marketed, and still failed for it to have sole blame. It’s hard to accept I know, but sometimes things are just a person’s own damn fault.

Meyer created the quintessential female fantasy in Edward, a “boy” who is really older and much more mature than he looks; who loves Bella for who she is and not what she looks like; who wants to sleep with Bella but not in a sexual way; who is protective and very, very rich, with a loving, supportive family who totally accept Bella, regardless of the clear educational and economic differences. Really, what’s not to like?

You know, this has inspired me to invent a new law, but I’m going to need help refining it. It appears that one can tell a lot about a person by which features of Edward they say attract women to him. Here, the author emphasizes what some call Edward’s more “beta” traits. “Here is an example of someone emphasizing Edward’s “alpha” traits. And here’s someone saying it’s a bit of both. For myself? I think it’s that Edward has been created broadly enough that he has something which can appeal to almost anY woman. Just interested in looks? He’s got that. Looking for a provider? He’s incredibly rich. Enjoy the bad boys? He can’t even touch you without injuring you. Yet he also lacks the flaws that every man possessing even the desired characteristics would have. Good looking? Normally surrounded by girls falling all over him – except Edward doesn’t care about them (probably because he can read minds and the echo is painful). Rich? Won’t be available very much since you’re out working and earning money – unless you’re Edward who has kind of “inherited” his wealth and doesn’t have to put in any effort. Bad boys tend to be abusive, but Edward really makes an effort not to. In fact, that’s the high praise challenge this essay: try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.

In any world other than the fantastical one created by Meyer, Edward would be jailed.

I can’t help but wonder how that would help. Really, what jail could hold Edward?

Bella’s police chief father would have issued a restraining order against Edward.

And I think that would probably do even less good against a Meyerpire.

Edward even follows the psychology of abusers, with periods of blissful happiness followed by periods of severe abuse. He has to be cruel to Bella so that she understands what he needs her to understand; he has to make a suicide attempt when he believes Bella has moved on; he can’t help the bruises he inflicts on Bella during their first sexual encounter; he has to kill Bella after she has the baby in order to save her.

Hey wait a second! Dammit essay, you’re making me defend this crap series and it’s pissing me off. But if I can take a minute to pay tribute to the always lovey das_mervin and her series hate it for the right reasons, if you’re going to criticize something, TRY to be accurate about it.

In the context of Meyer’s world, Edward’s otherwise illegal and immoral actions are justified, but the female audience exposed to this fantasy needs to understand that in reality, Edward is not the ideal boyfriend lover. In fact, Jacob is.

Um. What?

[long glowing description of Jacob]
Girls, that is the kind of person you need to find! Looking for Edward will only lead to black eyes, rape, torture, and possibly even death.

Yeah, of the audience and literature.

Take it from a real-life Bella who found a “real” Edward – you don’t want that. You want respect, support, friendship – all of which adds up to true love. Luckily, my Edward didn’t succeed in his attempt to kill me, and I was able to find my Jacob.

Oh.

Um.

Damn, now I feel bad. You know this is one of those things that should maybe be disclosed up front. Also, it’s kind of a cheap shot to start off with stats and making the essay seem all academic and suddenly making it all personal right at the end. Then it becomes even harder to take critism and editing without them feeling like a personal attack. And it’s a shame because I think a personal testimony here would have worked better than the essay we got.

Still, the author does make one point that I can agree with 110%.

Earning the specialness you take for granted is more fulfilling than you can image.

So it’s not all bad. And with this, we wrap up the eclipse section. Tune in soon as we begin down the path of Breaking Dawn.

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Comment

  1. Puppet on 2 December 2011, 14:07 said:

    Oh hey, it’s Nate.

  2. theArmourer on 2 December 2011, 14:34 said:

    Speak of the devil. . .

  3. Fireshark on 2 December 2011, 15:26 said:

    I think unhealthy relationships being portrayed positively are bad, but I doubt they have much of a provable effect on anything. Twilight gives girls the wrong ideas about dating and love, but I don’t think it actually has anything to do with real violence.

  4. Kyllorac on 2 December 2011, 15:40 said:

    Seriously, if that’s the worst that most victims have to deal with… it’s something of an improvement for society.

    You’ve obviously never been phone stalked. I’ve never been on the receiving end myself (thankfully), but one of my close friends was, and I cannot describe to you just how terrifying it is to constantly get texts while out shopping in the mall that comment about things like “You’d look really cute in that dress to your right” and “I liked the black bra” WHEN YOU CANNOT SEE THE GUY DOING THE TEXTING.

    So much for crowded places being safer. At least with the more traditional forms of stalking, they’re physically presenting themselves as a target to shoot at if they decide to let you know/slip up when they’re stalking. With phone stalking, there’s not even that much.

    While I certainly hope things improve for the gals in Ethiopia and Peru, things seem pretty good in Japan.

    How they seem and how they are are two completely different beasts here. While there’s been a lot of changes for the better in recent years, women are still treated like crap; it’s just not socially acceptable AT ALL, especially if your family finds out, to complain about it, especially as being outed as a complainer can quite literally ruin your life and career.

    Keep in mind that these are only reported incidents; the double standards and gender inequalities in Japan are just sickening, and the number of unreported incidents is more substantial that you seem to be giving credit for.

    gets off rantbox

    I get the whole lampooning shoddy statistical data and support, and I’m fully behind that, but in doing so, you trivialized things that should not be trivialized. Honestly, I expected a bit more discretion from you.

  5. Prince O' Tea on 2 December 2011, 16:02 said:

    There are so many things wrong with the series, but the author definitly focuses on the wrong ones.

    I mean, why not bring up Emily, the girl who got the werewolf boyfriend she didn’t even want so angry, he turned into a werewolf and permanantly disfigured her? Emily instead says its pretty much her fault for getting him so angry he lost control and turned into a werewolf, and atones by meekly becoming his girlfriend and becoming dorm mother to his buddies. I can tell you, if I was dating someone, and they ripped off half my cheek, I would be calling the police, not making them a sandwich.

    And let’s not get into the whole imprinting thing, where a werewolf becomes a beloved uncle or big brother to a baby/toddler while she grows up, but is just waiting to jump her bones the minute she turns legal, which is totally NOT GROOMING AN INFANT AT ALL.

    I mean seriously… the last part made me feel so bad. But there are so many moments in Twilight that glorify dangerously unhealthy behaviour/domestic violence and the author didn’t pick up on any of them.

    Also I totally love the cartoon. Notice how the first chapter is basically Bella’s contempt for anyone unattractive trying to be nice to her, (like ew I’m not even going to try to keep up with the girl with bad hair, and yuck, look how how overly friendly this spotty guy is) but as soon as someone attractive comes along, Bella gushes about how finally someone was nice to her. It’s pretty much Bella’s personality in a nutshell.

  6. Prince O' Tea on 2 December 2011, 16:06 said:

    Phone/email stalking is pretty nasty, as I myself was the recipient of the ex of someone I dated once orginising a small scale hate campaign. I got a nasty phone call and several emails saying that I was going to have my jaw broken, had blogs saying I was a liar and a thief (and plenty of people started joining in and they weren’t bothered about finding out the truth). One or two phonecalls saying that you’d better watch out because someone knows where you live and they will find you and break your jaw is enough to make you very paranoid for a while at the very least.

  7. Nate Winchester on 2 December 2011, 16:19 said:

    You’ve obviously never been phone stalked. I’ve never been on the receiving end myself (thankfully), but one of my close friends was, and I cannot describe to you just how terrifying it is to constantly get texts while out shopping in the mall that comment about things like “You’d look really cute in that dress to your right” and “I liked the black bra” WHEN YOU CANNOT SEE THE GUY DOING THE TEXTING.

    So much for crowded places being safer. At least with the more traditional forms of stalking, they’re physically presenting themselves as a target to shoot at if they decide to let you know/slip up when they’re stalking. With phone stalking, there’s not even that much.

    Then I may stand corrected, but we are talking about a scale here. It strikes me (at least as a tech-head) that via phone one has a lot more control over the situation than in others (unless you own guns – which I do encourage).

    How they seem and how they are are two completely different beasts here. While there’s been a lot of changes for the better in recent years, women are still treated like crap; it’s just not socially acceptable AT ALL, especially if your family finds out, to complain about it, especially as being outed as a complainer can quite literally ruin your life and career.

    Yes, quite true, which is part of the issue when dealing with criminology studies – underreporting is the first and major issue of the debate between the UCR and NCVS. I would hope the WHO at least tried to correct for underreporting. And that’s something else the essay could have gone over, the issues of underreporting (which has some basis in Bella and implications for both sexes).

    Keep in mind that these are only reported incidents; the double standards and gender inequalities in Japan are just sickening, and the number of unreported incidents is more substantial that you seem to be giving credit for.

    Actually… looking at the WHO summary, it may not. It says they conducted interviews (similar methodolgy to the DVCS I believe) and I can’t find mentions (yet) about relying upon law enforcement reports. To quote:

    Women’s willingness to disclose violence is known to be influenced by characteristics of the interviewers such as sex, age, marital status, attitudes, and interpersonal skills (8). The WHO Study used female interviewers and supervisors who were selected according to criteria such as emotional maturity, ability to engage with people of different backgrounds in an empathetic and non-judgemental manner, and skills in dealing with sensitive issues. All were trained using a standardized three-week curriculum designed especially for the WHO Study

    Not sure how one could get a more accurate picture short of Orwellian surveillance.

    I get the whole lampooning shoddy statistical data and support, and I’m fully behind that, but in doing so, you trivialized things that should not be trivialized. Honestly, I expected a bit more discretion from you.

    Author started it? lol But seriously, it is important to get a perspective and wider view of things sometimes. In my own job, it can be easy to get stressed and focused on one problem that hasn’t been solved. It can get depressing if I don’t stop, take a moment, and acknowledge that 79 other things were successfully fixed today.

    It’s easy to get discouraged when trying to make the world a better place – so sometimes we need to take a moment and see that things are getting better, there is hope for tomorrow.

    One or two phonecalls saying that you’d better watch out because someone knows where you live and they will find you and break your jaw is enough to make you very paranoid for a while at the very least.

    I can recommend some good weapon stores if anyone needs them.

  8. Prince O' Tea on 2 December 2011, 16:29 said:

    Can’t have guns in the UK.

    Plus it’s a lot nicer to not to NEED the guns in the first place. As for the phonecalls, you can never be certain whether or not it will escalate into something worse, or if the threats made are serious. (The threats I received were very convincing at least.) I was getting ready to go to the police, when they started petering out. I would receive a threatening email every now and then, and one of the stalkers tried to add me on Facebook more then half a year later. (Guess they didn’t know where I lived after all, though they did know the area where I did.) You really can’t say “Oh it’s better then being murdered”, well of course, but that’s like saying being burgled is better then having your house burnt down. It’s a problem if it happens at all, and it isn’t a reason to celebrate if it’s the only crime that’s happening. I see what you’re saying, but it;s not something to be considered minor or merely annoying.

  9. dragonarya on 2 December 2011, 16:32 said:

    Yay! Welcome back, Nate!

    In fact, that’s the high praise challenge this essay: try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.

    Hmmm… does it count if I’m attracted to guys of a different type? Or with different character traits?

  10. swenson on 2 December 2011, 16:46 said:

    Yay, this is back!

    In fact, that’s the high praise challenge this essay: try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.

    I seriously sat here for a bit and tried to think of one, but I genuinely can’t. About the only ones I can come up with is “friendly and likable” and “good sense of humor”, as I don’t think “likes videogames” counts.

    Anyway, I pretty much agreed with you throughout the essay, which means I didn’t think it was all that bad (except they should’ve been more careful about their research and, quite frankly, I think they carried it a bit too far toward the beginning), until I hit the end and realized that the reason the author was anti Bella/Edward was basically because she was Team Jacob. Quite frankly I don’t think either relationship would be all that healthy, considering what Bella’s like, although I suppose Jacob would be better.

  11. Kyllorac on 2 December 2011, 17:41 said:

    Then I may stand corrected, but we are talking about a scale here. It strikes me (at least as a tech-head) that via phone one has a lot more control over the situation than in others (unless you own guns – which I do encourage).

    I disagree. Sure, you can block their number. Doesn’t work if they get a new phone, and another one, and another one. And there’s the whole matter of you don’t know where they are, but you know they’re watching you, not because of paranoia, but because they’re telling you they’re watching you and verifying it with details they could only know if they really were watching you. And all the while, they’re making inappropriate, sexual comments about every thing you do. Ignoring only goes so far, and there’s only so much the police can/will do, especially if you’ve never seen the stalker and so cannot identify them.

    The stalker is the predator, you’re the prey, there’s no escaping them, and they’re making damn well sure you know it.

    At least, if they’re staking out your house, school, place of work, etc. you have family, neighbors, coworkers, and other acquaintances who might notice and whom you can enlist to help hunt down that sick bastard. Those physical methods of stalking are also fairly easily traceable. And most people have the sense not to give detailed directions to another person’s home without their permission.

    Phone numbers are so easily shared, and honestly, who is going to take notice of someone texting or talking on the phone in a crowded place? And how many people have the ability and means to trace phone calls, text messages, or emails back to their actual source?

    Not sure how one could get a more accurate picture short of Orwellian surveillance.

    Three weeks training does not an expert or reliable confidant make. I don’t think you understand just how private the Japanese as a people are. It’s taken my mother decades of living in the US to open up enough to talk to her own daughter about some of the things that she did/were done to her when she was my age and younger. Even now, what she hasn’t told me vastly outweighs what little she has told me, despite her insistence that I know exactly how women are treated in Japan, should I ever decide to move there.

    Women have long been seen in Japan as less than human. Animals are often treated with more respect. Women are to have no desires, no complaints, no opinions or will of their own; they are to be unquestioningly obedient, always pleasant, and always working to bring honor to the men of the family, in addition to their various household duties and child-rearing.

    While things have been slowly changing in recent years, these changes are not even a generation old. The majority of Japanese women still feel bound to the old views of appropriate womanly behavior, which includes not talking about the abuse they’ve suffered to anyone at all.

    On a different note:

    In fact, that’s the high praise challenge this essay: try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.

    How about a man who thinks of and treats me as an equal? Edward quite spectacularly fails that with how constantly condescending he is towards Bella.

  12. WulfRitter on 2 December 2011, 18:54 said:

    I thought this was a very good article. I like how you find the statistics and break them down into more honest and manageable terms.

    We know that Bella has bruises all over her body after her first sexual encounter with Edward.

    I admit I haven’t read the books, but I’ve read the sporks and the sexual encounter was . . . well . . . Speshul TM. However, and I’m not sure how to say this without sounding crass, but many of my female friends admit that after the first time, there was bruising. It’s not that the man is an abusive jerk, it’s that the body is doing a vigorous physical activity it has never done before. It’s an activity where endorphin levels go crazy and the ability to feel pain and discomfort is altered. Then again, I’m sure Meyer took this to the next level since everything Edward does must be so much more intense than anything a mere man can do.

  13. Akroya on 2 December 2011, 21:54 said:

    “try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.”

    (Yeah, I don’t actually know how to make it appear as a quote. Woops)

    I’ve never actually seen Bella and Edward sit down and have a logical, rational, and intelligent discussion about anything. That’s something that’s really attractive to me in men.

    Intelligence and rationality are really important to me as attractive qualities, and Edward doesn’t really seem to possess either of these, aside from as informed attributes.

    Also, guys who respect me as an independent person, and my views. Edward often gives off the vibe of “Don’t worry your pretty little head about it” around Bella, which I’d just find disgusting in a partner.

    Plus I like to feel safe around a guy, which I wouldn’t get from someone constantly reminding me he’s going to accidentally kill me one day. I’ve considered guys to be more attractive than other guys because I’ve felt safer around them.

    I could go off on a tangent about his unattractive qualities (I sorta accidentally did), but that’s not really the point of this question.

  14. Vikingboybilly on 2 December 2011, 23:01 said:

    Bella died before she turned into a vampire? o_0

  15. TheArmada on 2 December 2011, 23:10 said:

    got a stalking problem? I can rent you a rifle. Oh, and UK outlawed pistols only. Rifles you just need a liscense for.

  16. Nate Winchester on 3 December 2011, 01:33 said:

    @Vikingboybilly – If I’m getting your question, I’m referring to the incident in New Moon when Edward was CONVINCED she was dead. In reality, she wasn’t, but as far as he knew, she was.

  17. Prince O' Tea on 3 December 2011, 11:06 said:

    No need. In the UK, we just all stab eachother instead.

  18. Vikingboybilly on 3 December 2011, 18:14 said:

    Oh. Well I’ve read about the infamous… uh… birth scene… and this author of Twilight and Philosophy claims Bella was murdered by her husband during their daughter’s conception… and I know Bella turns into a vampire, even though I haven’t read the books, and technically vampires are undead, and Edward gave her a cesaerian section with his teeth, so..

  19. Fell_Blade on 5 December 2011, 15:13 said:

    I wish that some people wouldn’t apply “stalker” in such broad terms. Those of you who have been stalked can testify that it is serious. But really, that first cartoon is pretty accurate. If a guy shows any interest in a girl then she (and all of her friends) freak “STALKER!!!!!!!” I know, I’ve been there. Liked a girl (and she knew I did), talked to her a lot on facebook and commented on her stuff a lot. Her friends were like “Ew, he’s like a cyber stalker”, and she got really ticked at me. If she’d just said, “I’m not interested”, I’d have back off. But no, they have to throw around the stalker thing.

    Sorry, it really irritates me when I see that. Thus I can kinda relate to what Nate said,

    OMG! I’m being stalked by the American Red Cross!

    Seriously, if that’s the worst that most victims have to deal with… it’s something of an improvement for society. Won’t stop the chapter’s doom and gloom, though.

    Yes, phone stalking is absolutely scary. I won’t argue. But too many people are just running around using that term when they have no clue what it’s like to actually BE STALKED! If someone calls too often “OMG THEY’RE STALKING ME!” (unless you’re a sparlky vampire, then its ok)

  20. The Drunk Fox on 6 December 2011, 06:31 said:

    In fact, that’s the high praise challenge this essay: try to find some feature that attracts women (it has to be realistic now, something you yourself or someone you know likes in guys) which Edward wouldn’t fulfill.

    Easy/fun to talk to. (I’m not counting that as Akroya’s because sometimes stupid/ridiculous conversations are the best.)

    Also, agreeing with Akroya on the feeling safe part. One of my earliest crushes was on a guy who made me feel safe.

    @Kyllorac – I’m not trying to offend or start fights or anything, and I’m sorry your friend had to go through all of that. However, in defense of Nate, if the stalker in question was giving that kind of specific information, obviously he was doing more than just sending unwanted texts/calls.

    I’m just saying, there’s a difference between ‘getting calls that I don’t want to answer’ (which is a perfectly legitimate interpretation of that line, even if that’s not what was meant) and ‘this person is following me around and making sure I know it‘.

    That said, I hope your friend is all right now?

  21. Inkblot on 6 December 2011, 16:08 said:

    Nate is back!! Woo hoo!

    Great article to boot.

  22. Klutor the Ninth on 7 December 2011, 15:45 said:

    Guess who’s back!

    About bloody time, mate. You popping in to visit the forum, too?

    What about all the violence done to men in the media?

    According to current standards, a guy getting beat up doesn’t really count as “violence”. A girl getting one blow pumps up the rating of a movie/episode.

    People are flawed, and if you don’t want to live your life alone, you’re going to have to figure out which flaw you can live with.

    Thank you, Nate. This is what I keep telling other people.

    Yes, the author LIED when she said 3.4 million women were stalked – nearly a 3rd of that number were actually men!

    The NERVE!
    No, seriously. Like they say – 47.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    And with that…

    Loved that comic. I know girls like that IRL. Bitches.

    some uncomfortable injuries

    One of mervin’s commenters spelled it out. Twas hilarious.

    Well let me just say that it doesn’t matter whether the victim is man, woman or Dalek – domestic violence isn’t cool.

    I am so glad to find someone else saying this.

    To sum up: people have become so immersed in pop culture, they have trouble telling the difference between fiction and reality.

    I’ve heard accounts of people verbally, and sometimes physically, assaulting the actors who play villains in their favorite soap opera. True story.

    But society can still play a role in our lives. Best summed up with:

    Youch.

    if you run to a park and try having sex with some marble or bronze or other hard substance statue

    And now I’m picturing that. Thanks, buddy!

    I think unhealthy relationships being portrayed positively are bad, but I doubt they have much of a provable effect on anything.

    Might be a lot of folks disagreeing with me here, but I disagree with you on this… when it comes to expectations of relationships and the “happy endings” people want. Not when it comes to violence/abuse.

    There are so many things wrong with the series, but the author definitly focuses on the wrong ones.

    The Prince said it best.

    It’s not that the man is an abusive jerk, it’s that the body is doing a vigorous physical activity it has never done before.

    You’re right, Wulf, but guys are also kinda worn out after the first time. You stretch and strain muscles in several places in a way they’re not used to. That’s why.

    That’s something that’s really attractive to me in men.

    Funny, I myself like that in a girl. :-O

    Edward often gives off the vibe of “Don’t worry your pretty little head about it” around Bella

    No, he’s more “oh Bells, u too stoopid to think of solution! U jus a leetle wimminses, after all! Don’t worry, I’ll sort it out!!111!!”

    If she’d just said, “I’m not interested”, I’d have back off. But no, they have to throw around the stalker thing.

    Sorry, it really irritates me when I see that.

    Don’t apologize, Fell. I’ve been there, too.

    I’m feeling some real relief right now. Most of you folks are thinking like me! :D

    All in all, awesome article, Nate. Keep ‘em coming!